Kurds flee homes as Iran shells Iraq's northern frontier

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by XphilesPhanThey do not seek a homeland for their people and they havent nearly been wiped out by the Turks on a numbe rof occasions. :shk:

So apprarently fighting "terrorism" is only allowed when the US does it?

The type of terrorists we look for have no real goal other than destruction.

The Islamisist terrorists you speak of are not seeking merely destruction, many are seeking the establishment of an Islamic state. They also seek the removal of the US influence in the Middle East. So now that they have a reason, does that justify their actions?

You are trying to justify the PKK just because they have a similar reason.

Wrong the Islamo-facists goals are not only unrealistic they are inconsequential in their eyes. They are killers plain and simple.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't know about that. If Bush was really ticked at Turkey, he'd say "Sure Kurds, you can seperate from Iraq and form a soverign and independent Kurdistan."

So why do you think the US does nothing about the PKK bases in northern Iraq even though they are listed as a terrorist organization by the US? As well, previously the Turks were able to go into Iraq to pursue the PKK, but following this latest Iraq War, they can't anymore.

Do you think Turkey would have such a hard-time getting the US to take action if they had let the US use those military bases originally?

[edit on 18-8-2006 by Jamuhn]

US knows about the norther Kurdish establishment of territories.

US has done nothing to stop them, first they has been able to get away with removing any people from the area that are not of their own and even when the US has known of what they are doing they let them be.

From the beginning they have told the US that they will have an independant territory and we have seen here and there some news about what is going on but noboyd cares.

The administration has chosen to ignore them because they are the only group that is not fighting against the US in Iraq.

Now this what comes from all the ignoring.

So convenient and timely, Iran is attacking poor Kurdish people that had suffered so much. . .

The present administration still have a very long agenda to fill before the term is over.

It has to be remembered that the current borders of many Middle East countries were created by the US and UK in the 1920's, for the sole reason of making it easier for us to exploit their natural resources.

These borders were drawn without any consideration to the traditional lands the different ethic groups lived in or called their home.

Many of the recurrent hostilities have been a result of this. One of Saddam's given reasons for invading Kuwait was to re-instate the previous borders. (obviously there was far more to it)


Look at the unnatural straight lines that make up many Middle East borders, these are not the countries natural borders, they were put in place by the west.

It’s inevitable that ethnic tension occurs. the west can't sit back and scoff at regional tensions as arcane and barbaric when the responsibility lies as much with it as it does the capitalising war lords and religious extremists.


[edit on 18-8-2006 by kegs]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Hmm, interesting story loam. So isn't this all the excuse Bush needs for Iran? And what in the hell is he going to do about Turkey, especially considering the fact that we have just had reports that Turkey agreed to letting an Iranian cargo plane loaded with C-802 missiles reach Damascus? (Turkey agreed on the condition that they could inspect the plane, at which point the Iranian plane declined to land in Turkey and returned home.)

Therein lies the problem with the whole global war on terror. Where do we stop? Do we stop after demolishing Iran, or do we also take out Syria,Turkey,Palestine,Mogidishu,Somalia and other terrorists states? I mean, really, where does it end?

I truly believe that from September 11, 2001 World War 3 began. Agree or disagree, that is how I see it. Anyone who doesn't admit that there is a world war going on is doing one of two things:

(1) Denying the obvious

(2) Not keeping up with world events

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruthTherein lies the problem with the whole global war on terror. Where do we stop? Do we stop after demolishing Iran, or do we also take out Syria,Turkey,Palestine,Mogidishu,Somalia and other terrorists states? I mean, really, where does it end?

Ok, I agree with some of what you say but Turkey is NOT a terrorist state. Please do some research next time, thanks.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruthTherein lies the problem with the whole global war on terror. Where do we stop? Do we stop after demolishing Iran, or do we also take out Syria,Turkey,Palestine,Mogidishu,Somalia and other terrorists states? I mean, really, where does it end?

Ok, I agree with some of what you say but Turkey is NOT a terrorist state. Please do some research next time, thanks.

You know that beyond a shadow of a doubt? I mean, just because a nation is struck by a terrorist attack here and there does not exclude that nation from having terrorist cells in it. Does it? America certainly has terrorist cells in it; the administration has admitted as much. So......no,technically Turkey is not a terrorist state, but that doesn't exclude them from having that capability.

[edit on 18-8-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
You know that beyond a shadow of a doubt? I mean, just because a nation is struck by a terrorist attack here and there does not exclude that nation from having terrorist cells in it. Does it? America certainly has terrorist cells in it; the administration has admitted as much. So......no,technically Turkey is not a terrorist state, but that doesn't exclude them from having that capability.

Yes, I do, I've been there and know many Turkish people. Maybe you are confused about what a terrorist state is, it is a state that sponsors terrorism. Or maybe you just see Turkey on the map next to Syria, Iraq, and Iran and assume that they support terrorism, I don't know. If you want to speak hypothetically though, then hypothetically any nation in the world can be a terrorist state. But, to reiterate my answer to your question, Turkey is not a terrorist state and does not sponsor terrorism in any country.

[edit on 18-8-2006 by Jamuhn]

I don't know about that. Turkey has a terrible human rights record including genocide. Especially as regards the Kurds and Armenians. Languages other than Turkish were forbidden to be used or taught until quite recently (2002). They still have Ocalan in solitary confinement and refuse his lawyers and family to visit him.

Originally posted by marg6043
US knows about the norther Kurdish establishment of territories.

US has done nothing to stop them, first they has been able to get away with removing any people from the area that are not of their own and even when the US has known of what they are doing they let them be.

From the beginning they have told the US that they will have an independant territory and we have seen here and there some news about what is going on but noboyd cares.

The administration has chosen to ignore them because they are the only group that is not fighting against the US in Iraq.

Now this what comes from all the ignoring.

So convenient and timely, Iran is attacking poor Kurdish people that had suffered so much. . .

The present administration still have a very long agenda to fill before the term is over.

Why has the US not intervened with the Kurds...

Because of all the people in Iraq, the Kurds are by far doing the best. They have the only operating economy, they even have a tourist trade going. These are peace loving people, they love America and support them all they can. The kurds supply their own security, their own education system, their own checkpoints and if you turn on the TV you will not hear about terrorist blowing cars up in Kurdistan.

The Iranians and the Turks hate the Kurds, they would kill every last one given the chance! The bombing of these facilities on an ally of this country could be declared an act of war if it doesnt cease. PKK does not represent the majority of Kurds, the PKK was formed from the decades of suppression and brutal genocide against them, how dare any one condone these people as terrorist.

These people are the true form of freedom fighters. They have a land they are conected to and have been supressed ruthlessly, they have formed their own government, they have social services, they are friends of the West and we cannot allow them to endure that anylonger.

When we go to war with Iran I hope our leaders have enough sense to give a big chunk of North Iran to the Kurds.

PKK may conduct terrorist acts, but they are aimed at the operations of Turks who murder them when ever given the chance.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Where do we stop? Do we stop after demolishing Iran, or do we also take out Syria,Turkey,Palestine,Mogidishu,Somalia and other terrorists states? I mean, really, where does it end?

Let me see if I can address your point there Speaker, without getting into a convenient little petty argument over whether Turkey is a terrorist state or not. :shk:

And as to your point, I have asked the same question many times. Where does it end? Well for the moment, it ends, I suppose, with Bush's axis of evil. That is if he can manage to survive politically long enough to get his grubby little hands on Iran and North Korea. But that's just for the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if all those countries you mentioned and a few more get taken out eventually by the NWO and PNAC.

And you may well be right about WW3 starting then. I just hope you're wrong, that's all- for both our sakes.

Originally posted by money order
I don't know about that. Turkey has a terrible human rights record including genocide. Especially as regards the Kurds and Armenians. Languages other than Turkish were forbidden to be used or taught until quite recently (2002). They still have Ocalan in solitary confinement and refuse his lawyers and family to visit him.

The Armenian genocide took place almost 100 years ago during Ottoman rule, not during the Turkish Republic. As well, while I also disagree with Turkey's previous policies regarding the Kurdish, today they enjoy greater freedom for their culture. As far as Ocalan, the terrorist leader of the PKK, he has a life sentence instead of the death sentence which was abolished in Turkey. And if you disagree with the way he is being held, then you probably disagree with Guantanamo and many other prisons as well.

All in all, once more details are provided instead of the short little blurbs with buzz words to condemn Turkey, it's obvious that Turkey is a modern state. As well, none of these issues you brought up have anything to do with supporting terrorism.

Originally posted by RockpuckThe Iranians and the Turks hate the Kurds, they would kill every last one given the chance!

No, they don't. I know Iranians and Turks, and they don't hate the Kurdish.

PKK may conduct terrorist acts, but they are aimed at the operations of Turks who murder them when ever given the chance.

So you support terrorism? Why is it you insist on using such propaganda? There are over 20 million Kurds in Turkey, how many do you see get murdered? You can walk anywhere in Turkey and see Kurds walking around without any problem.


[edit on 18-8-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Where do we stop? Do we stop after demolishing Iran, or do we also take out Syria,Turkey,Palestine,Mogidishu,Somalia and other terrorists states? I mean, really, where does it end?

Let me see if I can address your point there Speaker, without getting into a convenient little petty argument over whether Turkey is a terrorist state or not. :shk:

And as to your point, I have asked the same question many times. Where does it end? Well for the moment, it ends, I suppose, with Bush's axis of evil. That is if he can manage to survive politically long enough to get his grubby little hands on Iran and North Korea. But that's just for the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if all those countries you mentioned and a few more get taken out eventually by the NWO and PNAC.

And you may well be right about WW3 starting then. I just hope you're wrong, that's all- for both our sakes.

I assume that is indeed true for the time being.I suspect that once the European Union, who I truly believe will be the head of the NWO rather than the United Nations, gain control all bets will be off.

Something that needs to be understand about Europe and the New World Dictator is that Europe is both very anti-American and anti-Semitic. Now, sure Europe plays along with America's plan for now, but once the European Union gains a foothold, sorry to say, it will be no more Mr. Niceties from Europe.

Jamuhn, yes I support terrorism in Kurdistans case, I believe that what they fight for is legit.

Turkey does suppress Kurds, they have for a very long time, they have massacred many in the past 100 years. The fact that they treat their Kurds so bad is one of the big reasons why they will not be admitted into the EU. Iran has also treated Kurds with overwhelming force, they are not friends, never have been, and eventually will have to deal with a Kurdish state.

May I ask what it is about Kurds you don't like?

Hey guys, "The Kurds" and "The PKK" are not one and the same ok.

PKK members are Kurds, yes, but not all Kurds are PKK.

Just like some Terrorists are Muslims, but not all Muslims are terrorists. (which is another thing alot of people seem to forget ..)

Iran and Turkey have been duking it out with the PKK for ages, an organisation classified in the US as a terrorists organisation, which the US chooses to turn a blind eye to because it suits their own agenda's.

Just like when Osama was fighting the Russians, they didn't mind, that, untill he turned his attention towards the US.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus

Why is that ?

According to the US Administration and other governments around the world it is ok to go after terrorists and i do believe that the PKK are a terrorist group.

Wrong! once again you have mixed up a group of people who have no home and want to establish one with terrorists. The type of terrorists we look for have no real goal other than destruction. They do not seek a homeland for their people and they havent nearly been wiped out by the Turks on a numbe rof occasions. :shk:

Sorry but people that firebomb are certainly terrorists.

The PKK staged two waves of attacks on dozens of Turkish diplomatic and commercial facilities in several European countries last year. The first round on 24 June consisted mostly of vandalism and demonstrations. They occupied the Turkish Consulate in Munich for a day, and Turkish Embassy officials killed a Kurdish demonstrator, who was storming the Embassy in Bern, Switzerland. On 4 November, the PKK firebombed many of its targets, killing a Turkish man in Wiesbaden, Germany. After the November attacks, police officials in Germany swept through Kurdish offices and apartments, confiscating PKK-related materials, while French police arrested more than 20 Kurds, including the two alleged PKK leaders in France. The German Interior Minister banned the PKK and 35 associated organizations on 26 November, and France banned the PKK and the Kurdistan Committee on 29 November.

Killing people is not in your eyes a terror threat either ?

I sure bet that if those things happened in the US they would sooner be in Gitmo then you could blink with your eyes

Originally posted by marg6043
US knows about the norther Kurdish establishment of territories.

US has done nothing to stop them, first they has been able to get away with removing any people from the area that are not of their own and even when the US has known of what they are doing they let them be.

From the beginning they have told the US that they will have an independant territory and we have seen here and there some news about what is going on but noboyd cares.

The administration has chosen to ignore them because they are the only group that is not fighting against the US in Iraq.

Now this what comes from all the ignoring.

So convenient and timely, Iran is attacking poor Kurdish people that had suffered so much. . .

The present administration still have a very long agenda to fill before the term is over.

Oh! yes...It's the US fault the Iranians and Turks are shelling the kurds now!

I swear this concept of "It's not my fault! Its someone elses!" seems to be a common theme. Afterall its not the people firing those shells its the people that invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and by their indirect actions the poor kurds are having to flee their homes!




Get a life!

Originally posted by R3KR
Are the kurds bad ?

The kurds are the major traffickers of heroin/poppies in the region.
Before shock and awe the US had intended on actually attacking these people
because they are heavily armed with rocket launchers, but backed off that
plan.

From the lead article of this thread, it notes the US has been washing its hands:

Frustrated by the reluctance of the US and the government in Baghdad to crack down on the PKK bases inside Iraq, Turkish generals have hinted they are considering a large-scale military operation across the border. They are said to be sharing intelligence about Kurdish rebel movements with their Iranian counterparts.

Turkish government is fed up with US stonewalling.


Thus US inaction in Northern Iraq has bred an alliance between Turkey and Iran in more ways than one.




So US inaction breeds contempt and what will the US plan do when hundreds of thousands of Iranian and Turkish forces come across the Iraqi border? Iraq's president Jalal Talabani, a Kurd, must love that idea, as he has enough problems keeping Iraq's civil war from going full scale.

Why are Iraqi Kurds reluctant to 'finish off' PKK?
"A Kurd would not capture a Kurd and hand them over to Turkey."

Anti-Americanism grows in Turkey.


Chaos in the making on the road to global war...

[edit on 19-8-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Turkish government is fed up with US stonewalling.

Well, perhaps Turkey will be more agreeable to letting the US use their airbases in the future. They demand too much while offering little in return.