NASA need 1960's saturns to inspire them..

Originally posted by cdrn
All that is needed is a rocket with a stage that can propel it towards the moon. That's it. No engines are required to maintain something in lunar orbit, since there isn't much atmosphere to speak of and thus there is almost no drag.

So all you need is the very high altitude, right? And close to the sweet spots where it won't be affected by the Earth's pull.

Just confirming.

It still is circling the earth...its just staying above a certain spot while doing so.

How can it be circling if it's standing above a position.

real world example: If you stand in the middle of a room, and somebody is walking in a circle around you, and while there doing that you keep your body pointing towards them..
.meaning you never have your back pointing towards them. Just because they haven’t seen your back, are you saying they were never circling (aka: orbiting) you?

If I would be standind still and he would go around me that would be called circling
Cicling some one means going around some one, going around some one means you get to see the back of that person

It's going in circles with the earth, it's not going in circles around the earth, I know we sustain the same, but I just don;'t call it circling around the earth.

If you were holding in your hand a stick in front of you and you would start to spin would that mean the stick is going in circles around you? no it means it going in circles with you which means it's not going in circles around you.
I agree that the satelites go in circle, but not around the planet but with the planet.
Going around something would mean you get to see the other side.


[edit on 24-8-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
I'll let you belive that geostational satelites go around the earth

belive what you want, but posting and sustaining geo stational satelites go around the earth

and then posting things such as the flowing will make you look like you're arguing with your self.

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not perceive the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky.

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not perceive the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky.

perceive - 1 behold, descry, detect, discern, discover, distinguish, espy, find, glimpse, see, sight, spot, spy, view, witness 2 ascertain, detect, determine, discern, discover, establish, find, hear, identify, learn, locate, prove, recognize, 3 adistinguish, identify, know, pinpoint, place, recognize 6 apprehend, follow, grasp, understand
www.synonymer.se...

So....may I translate the phrase for you?

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not see the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not find the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not view the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not discern the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky

and so on, and so on....

But where the heck says that the satellite is not moving??? It just says that you WILL NOT SEE it moving!!!

Earth is on a what, what are you talking about?

take a look at this

Two observers may choose to use different frames of reference to investigate a common system. The measurements that an observer makes about a system generally depend on the observer's frame of reference (see examples below). In rectangular coordinates, one can define translations, rotations and velocity transformations (those that carry one to a moving frame) as transformations of the reference system to another. The time is not transformed, except sometimes by a constant offset. Translations and velocity transformations (i.e. to moving frames) commute.

So if I choose to have my frame of reference (viewpoint) on Earth I'll see the Moon orbiting the Earth. If choose my frame of reference on the Moon I'll see the Earth orbiting the Moon

You post a few words and then you post material from other sites which are in contradiction with your saing.
If I were standing in front of you and you were with out a internet connection you would be dead in the water, I could imagine what kind of aswers I would get, probaly I would get a good laugh, 70% of you posts are just copy paste material.
thank god for the internet you can search fast what geo orbitalpositioning means But you still get it wrong when you comment on it all by your self, maybe you should just copy and paste with out saing anything, that way you will get it right.

You knocked me out with this
Well I post a few words and then [...] post material from other sites (which happens to say pretty much the same thing I do, ask everybody else!!!) because I have sources to back up my words...pretty much unlike you.

If I were standing in front of you and you were with out a internet connection you would be dead in the water, I could imagine what kind of aswers I would get, probaly I would get a good laugh, 70% of you posts are just copy paste material.
thank god for the internet you can search fast

Well, to bad that we can't find out who would be dead in the water without the internet....
Just a hint for you, though...

thank god for the internet you can search fast

because I know what I'm talking about and know what and where to look for...

Let's just ask the rest of the people out here:
What if I wouldn't "copy - paste" from other sources? Would this be good for my credibility?
Pepsi...I don't know if I want to continue anymore. Go learn some stuff and we'll talk again about this subject (and I'm not the first one who tales you that).

Hmm. I just noticed. You're both from Romania, and you both have good english yet they don't speak it there. What gives?

Sorry, off topic.

Originally posted by SteveR
Hmm. I just noticed. You're both from Romania, and you both have good english yet they don't speak it there. What gives?

Sorry, off topic.

What? I didn't saw that!
(10q for the apreciation about english skills :roll
So pepsi...after all... we could meet face to face

Pepsi, ce spui? Ne luam la intrecere sa vedem cine rade va rade? Oricum, nu vreau sa ducem discutia la un nivel personal!

(sorry folks about that!)

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not see the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not find the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky

In the special case of the geostationary orbit, an observer on the ground would not view the satellite as moving and would see it as a fixed point in the sky

Which means it's circling with the earth , and atention!!!!!! not circling around the earth, maybe you don't understand the term"Around"

But where the heck says that the satellite is not moving??? It just says that you WILL NOT SEE it moving!!!

The satelite is moving, but not around the earth, you can call it circlin but not around the earth but with the earth at the same time.

I wont comment on the rest of the post, it's just not worth it.

Adica cu alte cuvinte satelitul se misca in orbita dar nu in jurul pamantului, se misca cu pamantul la aceas viteza adica nu da ocolul lumii, ce misca in cerc odata cu pamantul, adica nu isi schimba pozitia geografica.
Cei care se invart in jurul pamantului intradevar sunt cei din orbita joasa, sunt atrenati de centrul gavitational si prind viteza.




[edit on 24-8-2006 by pepsi78]

OK, look. If the satellite is not moving around the Earth, then what keeps it from falling down? And how come geostationary satellites are at only one special altitude? If it was like you said, then it would be easy to launch a geostationary satellite 300km into orbit. Why doesn't that happen?

(hint: you're wrong)

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by cdrn
All that is needed is a rocket with a stage that can propel it towards the moon. That's it. No engines are required to maintain something in lunar orbit, since there isn't much atmosphere to speak of and thus there is almost no drag.

So all you need is the very high altitude, right? And close to the sweet spots where it won't be affected by the Earth's pull.

Just confirming.

Pretty much, though I missed out an important detail. The satellite has to reach close enough to the moon to be affected more by its gravity than by the Earth's gravity, and then it has to retrofire to slow down its velocity in order to be captured in orbit around the Moon.

For those of you who are a bit fuzzy about how orbits work (pepsi78 cough cough) I recommend you try out Orbiter:

orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk...

It's a free spaceflight sim that you get to play around with and do pretty much anything in the solar system you want. It lets you learn the concept of orbits very easily, and it has very nice graphics to boot.

OK, look. If the satellite is not moving around the Earth, then what keeps it from falling down?

That would be gravity, gravity is still present in the geostational position, it's less but it's enough to keep it from jumping off orbit, speed is also a factor so it wont decline, it does not fall from orbit because the world is round when it reaches the edge it just keeps going in stead of crashing.

And how come geostationary satellites are at only one special altitude?

if it would be too low it would be atracted by gravity and it would not be a geostationary satelite anymore, in low orbit it could pick off speed

[edit on 24-8-2006 by pepsi78]

Why wouldn't it be attracted by gravity in high orbit?

edit: to clarify, even a very small force would cause the object to fall a bit, which would in turn increase the gravitational force, etc etc.

[edit on 24-8-2006 by cdrn]

Originally posted by pepsi78
The satelite is moving, but not around the earth, you can call it circlin but not around the earth but with the earth at the same time.

I so want to proofread that for you...

Again, you are wrong.

From the perspective of a person on the surface of Earth, the satellite does not appear to be moving around the Earth. From any perspective off the surface, the satellite is happily orbiting the planet every ~24hrs. The planet could stop rotating, and the satellite would keep on orbiting at the same rate. Rotation has nothing to do with orbit. The rotation does not drag the satellite along. It does not provide centrifugal force to push the satellite up against gravity. Nope... nada... niet.

>

That would be gravity, gravity is still present in the geostational position, it's less but it's enough to keep it from jumping off orbit, speed is also a factor so it wont decline, it does not fall from orbit because the world is round when it reaches the edge it just keeps going in stead of crashing.

Gravity is more than just present... it holds the Moon in place... which is much farther than geosynchronous orbital paths. It's just moving much slower around Earth than the satellites. Which is the key factor... speed. Not centrifugal force from rotation... speed.

And I loved that last bit... so which is it? The satellite isn't really orbiting it's just rotating with the Earth, or it's actually orbiting?

[edit on 24-8-2006 by apc]

Originally posted by SteveR
Hmm. I just noticed. You're both from Romania, and you both have good english yet they don't speak it there. What gives?

Sorry, off topic.

Most romanians have a knolege of english, I would say about 70% from this procent about 30%can speak fluent english.
It's in school implemented as a secondary languege, you learn romanian and english.
Alot of the tv chanels here are in english also, so it's imposible not to pick it up and perfect your self at it.
I for one learned it diferent, I grew up in the US and I came back here.

Pepsi
The satellite in a geostationary orbit revolves around the axis of the Eart. The Earth also rotates around this axis. This combined motions make the satellite apear fix in the sky. But the satellite is orbiting the Earth.
And let's leave the romanian for U2U's. Check your U2U's, I sent you one.

Originally posted by cdrn
Why wouldn't it be attracted by gravity in high orbit?

It's not really atracting it, but it is keeping it in place, hey with out any gravity at all it would jump off orbit at head in to space.
So what is stoping it from jumping off orbit?
Speed only prevents it from falling in to lower orbit, speed is not responsible for preventing it to jump off in space and to just go forward.
Do you think tv satelites have ways for propulsion to correct their trajectory each time they go in circles?
So what keeps them from going off orbit?



[edit on 24-8-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Apass
Pepsi
The satellite in a geostationary orbit revolves around the axis of the Eart. The Earth also rotates around this axis. This combined motions make the satellite apear fix in the sky. But the satellite is orbiting the Earth.
And let's leave the romanian for U2U's. Check your U2U's, I sent you one.

I didint say it's not circling it's just not doing it around the earth, around means it would get to see the other part of the earh, it's circling with the earth , I think you know what I mean.
You just experess it diferent.

Originally posted by pepsi78

It still is circling the earth...its just staying above a certain spot while doing so.

Trust me it isnt, it's moving at the same speed of the planet, it's just like the satelite would be part of the planet, it moves with the planet and it does not circle the planet.

Or maybe you didn't!
around

in a circle, ring, or the like;
in a circular or rounded course
with a rotating course or movement
so as to encircle, surround, or envelop
so as to revolve or rotate about a center or axis

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by cdrn
Why wouldn't it be attracted by gravity in high orbit?

It's not really atracting it, but it is keeping it in place, hey with out any gravity at all it would jump off orbit at head in to space.
So what is stoping it from jumping off orbit?
Speed only prevents it from falling in to lower orbit, speed is not responsible for preventing it to jump off in space and to just go forward.
Do you think tv satelites have ways for propulsion to correct their trajectory each time they go in circles?
So what keeps them from going off orbit?

[edit on 24-8-2006 by pepsi78]

OK, first of all, learn to be a bit more coherent. I don't know exactly what you're saying, but I'll try to answer you anyway.

Yes, you are correct: speed prevents the satellite from falling! That's what I said in the first place, and that's what you denied. If a satellite in geosynchronous orbit was not moving relative to the earth, then it would fall down. Not to a lower orbit, but it would fall down the same way that a rock would fall down if you dropped it from your arm. The satellite's speed ensures that although it is falling, it falls AROUND the earth and not onto its surface.

Yes, speed isn't responsible from preventing it from falling into space; gravity is.

Gravity and the satellite's speed relative to the earth (i.e. it is moving; you even admitted this yourself) keep the satellite in orbit. Cool, isn't it?

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by Apass
Pepsi
The satellite in a geostationary orbit revolves around the axis of the Eart. The Earth also rotates around this axis. This combined motions make the satellite apear fix in the sky. But the satellite is orbiting the Earth.
And let's leave the romanian for U2U's. Check your U2U's, I sent you one.

I didint say it's not circling it's just not doing it around the earth, around means it would get to see the other part of the earh, it's circling with the earth , I think you know what I mean.
You just experess it diferent.

Look, many times does this have to be explained to you: The earth does NOT cause the satellite to move via its rotation. The only major force it can exert is gravity, which is always exerted on objects straight towards its center. If the Earth stopped moving, the orbits of everything around it would be exactly the same.