Questioning Koizumi's shrine visits

this mad man has been there for five times,as a prime minister.i would like to know how you guys see it.
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[edit on 16-8-2006 by Deon]

So, it's wrong for a leader to visit a location honoring his or her own country's dead from battle? And, if this is his fifth visit, like you say, that means he has gone on average once a year. How is that so "mad" again? I think you just have an axe to grind here.

well,suppose there is a country's leader who is going to show his respect to the NAZI officials or the japanese suicide airfighter pilots,i would like to see how your face look like.you said i had an axe to grind here,what was it?you guys here rarely talk about japan in this forum,i am curious about how your views about this country.is this my"
axe to grind"?

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
So, it's wrong for a leader to visit a location honoring his or her own country's dead from battle? And, if this is his fifth visit, like you say, that means he has gone on average once a year. How is that so "mad" again? I think you just have an axe to grind here.

the problem here is the Shrine honours 14 class-A WAR CRIMINALS,including many war-time killers.if your logic works,German leader should go to prey for those dead in world-war II.Koizumi is mad because he is such an abnormal figure,he doesn't think logically.



[edit on 16-8-2006 by chao]

You also have to keep in mind the thousands of years of Japanese heritage. To them, if someone dies in battle, they deserve to be honored, no matter what side they're on or what they did. Dying for what you believe in is just about the utmost thing for one to do in the eyes of the Japanese. It's called Bushido, and it went through a major revival during the times of WWII.

it is not a matter of BUSHIDO.it cannot be used as an excuse of his visit on 8.15 which is a commemorable day.i would like to say that he goes to pray to the 14 class A ghosts to show his toughness in politics ,but has pushed diplomacy into an dead end.

[edit on 16-8-2006 by Deon]

He goes there once a year. Prime Ministers of Japan have gone there in the past as well, including one visit in 1985 on August 15th. Was it so terrible then? No. And yes, it entirely has to do with Bushido.

sad to say,you failed to read out the message behind his visit.politics is not as simple as what you see.

[edit on 16-8-2006 by Deon]

Well, please do explain to me what you feel his message behind the visit was.

His visit includes honoring War Criminals.

This may not sound much to us Westerners, for the horrendous crimes committed by the Japanese during WWII don't get as much as two sentences in our history books.

Hell, "horrendous crimes" seems too good in describing what the Japanese did to it's neighbors in WWII.

Too be brutally honest with you, there are few, if none other than the Holocaust, other instances in world history that can even amount to half of the horror the Japanese unleashed to the innocent civilians of East Asia.

When the leader of the Japanese people knowingly visits a shrine that is honoring those sick war criminal sons of bitches, he HONORS what THEY DID.



[edit on 16-8-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by k4rupt
When the leader of the Japanese people knowingly visits a shrine that is honoring those sick war criminal sons of bitches, he HONORS what THEY DID.

As I said before, he is neither the first PM to visit the shrine nor the first to do so on 8/15. So why all the commotion for this trip? Just because of the date? Did you have a problem with his other visits? With the other PMs' visits?

different times,different people mean different things.there is a great hatred each other between the two countries right now,so he should not do this at this day,in this status.if he visits the Yasukuni haunted house on december 7th,i am sure that you will think it otherwise,instead of a matter of so-called bushido or shinto.

So, in other words, your only arguement is that it's wrong because he supports Bush and therefore no matter what he does is inherrently evil? Am I understanding that correctly?

The man is exercising his constitutional right to worship as he sees fit. Because he is Prime Minister does not mean he cannot choose to worship, or exercise his religious beliefs.

While Americans might find his actions to be a political liability, I think that most of us don't see anything wrong with his actions, especially since the prime minister has stated on multiple occasions that he is not praying to any specific individuals, but honoring all war dead in general. During his last visit, he also publically offered yet another apology for the harm and sufferning Japan has inflicted on its neighbors during the 20th century.

The war is long since been over, and the dead are long since turned to dust. Seriously, people. China and Korea need to grow the heck up and get on with living. Everybody else seems to have moved on. Japan is about as completely different a place today as you could get compared to the Japan of 1940.

I believe that China and Korea demonstrate a real lack of maturity in letting little things like this get under their skin. Grow up! Stop acting so immature, with your tantrums and so forth! And while your at it, mind your own damn business! You don't live in Japan, and do not believe in the tenents of Shintoism, so why the heck do you care? Stop worrying about losing face (such a stupid, silly concept) and look to the future. You guys were on the winning side, remember? Learn how to win graciously, for crying out loud! You self-admitted hatred for the Japanese will garner you nothing but ill-fortune if you persist in these attitudes.

And personally, if I were you, I would not want to push the Japanese into a situation where they felt that their neighbors were so beligerant, that they would be forced to amend their constitution and expand their military..........you would probably regret that.

so as you say,we should let go the past and look at the future.well,you don't see it as i do because the japanese have not killed you guys on your land.so you are not in pain.if the enmity can be given up so easily,there will be no war in this world.the jews and aribians will not fight against each other,jews will not go to hunt the former nazi officials.americans will not drop the atomic bombs(hasten japan'surrender?huh,no!to reduce your own casualty)and now you guys will never be scared by terrorist attacks.
china is rising,not so-called growing damn up.remember,americans played a very important part in the rebuild of post-war japan,especially during the korean war.the war had boosted japan's economy as americans set up logistics there.but we have developed our country by our own.so it cannot be compared in this way.
it is not a little thing.neither a matter of immaturity.be alert of militarism in japan.that not harms asian people only. never forget that what happened in dec 7th,1941.
i like your humor.losing face is a good phrase.if we worry about losing face,we will either be more tougher in deplomacy to win back it,or pretend that nothing has happened and let koizumi go ahead.
we are not belligrent and WE DON"T CARE TO FIGHT WITH JAPAN AGAIN.even you guys worry about china's threats(want our data on aerospace and satellites?no way.you give us yours first.)so,i see no piont to regret.at least,we can back to stone age together.

Originally posted by Pyros
The war is long since been over, and the dead are long since turned to dust. Seriously, people. China and Korea need to grow the heck up and get on with living. Everybody else seems to have moved on. Japan is about as completely different a place today as you could get compared to the Japan of 1940.

I believe that China and Korea demonstrate a real lack of maturity in letting little things like this get under their skin. Grow up! Stop acting so immature, with your tantrums and so forth! And while your at it, mind your own damn business! You don't live in Japan, and do not believe in the tenents of Shintoism, so why the heck do you care? Stop worrying about losing face (such a stupid, silly concept) and look to the future. You guys were on the winning side, remember? Learn how to win graciously, for crying out loud! You self-admitted hatred for the Japanese will garner you nothing but ill-fortune if you persist in these attitudes.

Let the past go away and look forward are fine,ONLY when the Japanese face up to its war-time history.When the prime minister visiting the shrine and you see those right-wing thugs cheer on,you feels something goes wrong.When you know the Japanese history book fails to mention NANJING Massacre,claims that the occupation of Taiwan/China/Korea did good to their people.When you heard the Japanese were preparing to amend their "peace constitution",some politicans even called for a "pre-emptive" war againt another country,you sense something went seriously wrong.We must look farward but we shouldn't forget our history.And the only way to prevent a possible japanese aggression is to stop it doing anything wrong today

The war is long since been over, and the dead are long since turned to dust. Seriously, people. China and Korea need to grow the heck up and get on with living. Everybody else seems to have moved on. Japan is about as completely different a place today as you could get compared to the Japan of 1940.

I believe that China and Korea demonstrate a real lack of maturity in letting little things like this get under their skin. Grow up! Stop acting so immature, with your tantrums and so forth! And while your at it, mind your own damn business!

Wow you are seriously UNBELIEVABLE.

You have NO IDEA what the Japanese did to the Chinese and Korean. There actions were beyond human. You call what the Japanese did to their neighbors "little things?"

There is a REASON why China and Korea are the way they are in discussing this issue... and you OBVIOUSLY don't know jack # about it. YOU DONT KNOW #ING JACK # AND YOU CALL THEM IMMATURE? You are seirously #ing stupid. GO READ up what happened during WWII.

I assure you, the Chinese and Koreans are ANYTHING but immature in this issue.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
It's called Bushido

Bushido or not, you dont go there to honour class A war criminals.

He has stated that he isn't going there to honor anyone in particular. If you're not going to put your hate aside and see that it's just thier culture, then that's your problem.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
He has stated that he isn't going there to honor anyone in particular. If you're not going to put your hate aside and see that it's just thier culture, then that's your problem.

yeah,he stated that.Yeltsin also stated that no more missiles pionting on nato nations.but ,how reliable is it?politicians are professinal liars.don't be too naive to trust them.