F-16 designer calls the F-22 Raptor a 'turkey' among other design & cost criticisms

a reply to: pikestaff

The F-22 didn't participate in an Indian exercise, those were F-15s.

a reply to: buntalanlucu

And meanwhile, while radar designers have gotten better and better, stealth designers have said, "this stealth crap only works to a point, but we can convince people it's amazing and make billions!" and have since not done anything to advance stealth systems.

Do you seriously think that stealth designers have sat around doing nothing while radar improves? Stealth is as far ahead of the first generation as the P-80 was the Wright Flyer.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: buntalanlucu

And meanwhile, while radar designers have gotten better and better, stealth designers have said, "this stealth crap only works to a point, but we can convince people it's amazing and make billions!" and have since not done anything to advance stealth systems.

Do you seriously think that stealth designers have sat around doing nothing while radar improves? Stealth is as far ahead of the first generation as the P-80 was the Wright Flyer.

You missed my point, In regard of 'stealth' , everyone now woken up. They may be asleep until Desert Storm.. Now everyone racing to improve 'anti-stealth' capabilities.. Of Course the 'stealth' designer dont stop researching , but their current product F22 / B2 / JSF already out in public and as Ben Rich said in his book , Big part of Stealth is in the LO shaping and then materiels.

my opinion , it is folly to fully depended on 'stealth' without considering the enemy might have 'cracked its code' so to speak.. Today almost every branch suffered because of the budget requirement supporting the very expensive F-35 project , and it is not even all-aspect stealth like F-22. With everyone in US military (except army) heavily invested in the success of F-35, do you think they got time for another 'break thru silver bullet' in the near future ? i have to say no to this. Maybe after they learned the F-35 lesson their next project will be successfull in the far future..

Dont get overconfident and become shocked when the enemy easily countered it in the battlefield. Remember TIGER II's first operation was a disaster when ordinary russian tanks ambushed it (i forgot the place of engagement) , also the IDF's confidence of Merkava III/IV was shaken when their enemy destroyed/damaged them using modern ATGM..

a reply to: buntalanlucu

Ok, so they're in public. What is the RAM made of? What is their true RCS? What kind of secondary systems do they use to help the RAM?

Being in public doesn't help develop anti stealth systems against them.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: buntalanlucu

Ok, so they're in public. What is the RAM made of? What is their true RCS? What kind of secondary systems do they use to help the RAM?

Being in public doesn't help develop anti stealth systems against them.

im sure you can find it in google easy.. it is dangerous to assume your enemy cannot catch up with you or counter your weapons with their own ingenuity. Overconfidence lead to highly dangerous complacency that will lead to disaster if coupled with inexperienced leadership.

Overconfidence lead to highly dangerous complacency that will lead to disaster if coupled with inexperienced leadership.

While this is a great quote, I guarantee you you won't find the raptors exact RCS measurement online, or a complete list of all its systems and what they do, or even what is in today's RAM coatings.

originally posted by: boomer135

Overconfidence lead to highly dangerous complacency that will lead to disaster if coupled with inexperienced leadership.

While this is a great quote, I guarantee you you won't find the raptors exact RCS measurement online, or a complete list of all its systems and what they do, or even what is in today's RAM coatings.

of course it is not publicly available. but it is folly to assume that the foreign intelligence didnt already have these data from their covert intel gathering. if i recall, the French particularly interested everytime they have a meet up with US fighters. it is safe to guess the french bombarded the F22 with their radar and record the resulting data to further their radar development..

originally posted by: buntalanlucu

originally posted by: boomer135

Overconfidence lead to highly dangerous complacency that will lead to disaster if coupled with inexperienced leadership.

While this is a great quote, I guarantee you you won't find the raptors exact RCS measurement online, or a complete list of all its systems and what they do, or even what is in today's RAM coatings.

of course it is not publicly available. but it is folly to assume that the foreign intelligence didnt already have these data from their covert intel gathering. if i recall, the French particularly interested everytime they have a meet up with US fighters. it is safe to guess the french bombarded the F22 with their radar and record the resulting data to further their radar development..

Ah yes the French...you wont find the Americans letting them get anywhere near their data - loose lips and all that, the French lips are so loose they dribble constantly.

No sir, there is no trust of the French, everyone knows where to post misinformation if you want it to get to Russia.

originally posted by: IamSirDrinksalot

originally posted by: buntalanlucu

originally posted by: boomer135

Overconfidence lead to highly dangerous complacency that will lead to disaster if coupled with inexperienced leadership.

While this is a great quote, I guarantee you you won't find the raptors exact RCS measurement online, or a complete list of all its systems and what they do, or even what is in today's RAM coatings.

of course it is not publicly available. but it is folly to assume that the foreign intelligence didnt already have these data from their covert intel gathering. if i recall, the French particularly interested everytime they have a meet up with US fighters. it is safe to guess the french bombarded the F22 with their radar and record the resulting data to further their radar development..

Ah yes the French...you wont find the Americans letting them get anywhere near their data - loose lips and all that, the French lips are so loose they dribble constantly.

No sir, there is no trust of the French, everyone knows where to post misinformation if you want it to get to Russia.

isnt it already a common knowledge that foreign nations who are invited in US led exercises always tried to get radar data from stealth aircraft if possible ?

And that's exactly why the raptor doesn't use all its systems during exercises.