Hezbollah Leader Claims 'Strategic, Historic Victory' Against Israel

Originally posted by xmotex
Hezbollah has gained a huge amount of political support in Lebanon, which is why they can get away with claiming victory. By attacking Lebanon in general in the name of "stopping Hezbollah", they have ensured Hezbollah will remain a major force for decades, with the support of most Lebanese. GG Israel

Oh no! Not Lebanese support! lol
Israel must be shaking in it's boots....

Infrastructure? Mostly it was Lebanese infrastructure that was destroyed, not Hezbollah's. One defining aspect of a guerilla army is that they posess little infrastructure to destroy.

I'm talking about bases, command centers, training camps, and rocket launchers...

I'm sure they lost some fighters. Hundreds? I have my doubts.

Why do you think you haven't heard from Hez disputing the numbers?
Unlike the US, Israel usually keeps track of the death toll...
30+ days of nearly constant pounding. What do you think it is?

This has already proven true for the Israelis in Lebanon, but they keep trying. You have to admire the tenacity it takes to keep repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results....

lol, I like how people always seem to forget how this all started.
What mistakes would that be btw?

And yes, it is possible to defeat them. But for the sake of Lebanon and it's civilians it's unlikely to happen any time soon unless Hezbollah tries something stupid again...

Originally posted by golemina

But that would be for people actually paying attention.
Where you paying attention?

Paying attention to cheap Israeli propaganda? Sorry I don’t waste my time on that. I prefer to understand how the Israeli Propaganda Machine itself works rather than watching their B-class fairy tale productions.

Originally posted by goleminaQuite frankly it came off more like an intelligence gathering operation.

So our Zionist Propaganda Bunny comes up with a new theory. Quite an expensive intelligence operation, don't you think? Oh I forgot Israel is a state founded on US tax money, and on the other hand, since the agency that is responsible for intelligence duties is proven to be incapable of doing so.

Originally posted by golemina
Those mighty Iranian stealth weapons were curiously absent from this Lebanon engagement. Maybe the kite strings didn't reach that far...

You didn't question the rumor whether Iran supplied Hezbollah with stealth weapons, you questioned whether Iran itself is in possession of stealth weapons, which is the case, but obviously didn’t reach Israel yet.

Originally posted by golemina
If you were ever to leave the ivory towers of your propaganda delusion...

You might see that this Lebanon thing was hardly close to a war... think of it as more of an extended skirmish.

My dear Zionist Propaganda Bunny, I'll try once more to make you answer my question.

What did Olmert mention on what Israel would achieve during this conflict?

This:
We'll keep fighting till peacekeepers arrive: Olmert
Olmert says fighting in Lebanon will stop when soldiers are freed
Olmert Says Fighting to End When Hezbollah Disarms

Here it comes: What of the above goals have been achieved by our mighty IDF elephant?

Really, you don’t have to be a champion of Hezbollah to fathom the cheap Israeli propaganda works.




[edit on 16-8-2006 by Mdv2]

Who is the propagandist and who is the truth seeker Mdv2?

Zionist propaganda bunny...



I AM flattered... And I am sure... Ouch!

If you seek to understand the difference between what is said in the ME versus what actually occurs... then one can only advance the notion that based on history you might have a serious disconnect from reality.



Not to mention, a little of sleepless nights.

An honest observer would flip the coin over and say... Hmm... How exactly did the nitwit Nasrallah do in his prognostications?

The answer in short... 'Ruff! Ruff... Ruff Ruff'



Translation: I bark very loudly while hiding in the Iranian embassy while real men go forth on the battlefield...

That's right you guessed it Mdv2! Barking dog syndrome.

I'm sorry you take my opinion so harshly.

Why is it you can't accept that this was just the tiniest of conflagrations? That's OK.

Not bringing the required attention to detail to this little chat, your analysis/pronouncements don't have much validity, though I do give you credit for tenacity. Do post your links yet again... maybe they will suddenly... magically... have the required impact you seem to think they represent.

I shouldn't laugh... But it IS funny.

(Much like what passes for 'logic' in the ME).

I have a huge interest in the mechanics of the conflagration. The IDF rewrites a lot of what passes for doctrine on many such outings. And this thing that was/is the Lebanon Skirmish was no different.

An honest observer would see that and much more and anyone 'paying attention' might be wondering what's next.

You keep fighting the good fight Mdv2.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
If its so wrong then why has Israel claimed victory?

Israel must be broken that they don't even have food to supply their soldiers with.
I'm tending to believe Hizbollah has won. Israel seems to be in bad shape.

How so Pieman? I am not saying that Israel has won and Hez has lost, this is a ceasefire and could continue on tomorrow is Israel so wishes. Israel is not in bad shape.. their people returned to homes on paved roads with their government and infrastructure intact.

Lebanese have to walk through debris to dig out what is left of their possessions, sleeping in the streets eating what rations the UN can give.

Note: Hezbollah is not feeding, sheltering, clothing the people in anyway, UN is.

How has Hez won? Their host country destroyed, an unknown amount dead, offices reduced to heaps of garbage... what did they do to win?

If Israel was having problems feeding troops, America would have sent emergency rations to them.. where did you come up with a fantastic lie?

I know you like to pretend your anti war and all that BS, but really all I see is someone who purely hates Israel and would have rather seen Israel on the receiving end of this huh? What is the word I am looking for??.. oh yeah..

Hypocrite.

Good day.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

How so Pieman? I am not saying that Israel has won and Hez has lost, this is a ceasefire and could continue on tomorrow is Israel so wishes. Israel is not in bad shape.. their people returned to homes on paved roads with their government and infrastructure intact.

Lebanese have to walk through debris to dig out what is left of their possessions, sleeping in the streets eating what rations the UN can give.

Note: Hezbollah is not feeding, sheltering, clothing the people in anyway, UN is.

How has Hez won? Their host country destroyed, an unknown amount dead, offices reduced to heaps of garbage... what did they do to win?

If Israel was having problems feeding troops, America would have sent emergency rations to them.. where did you come up with a fantastic lie?

I know you like to pretend your anti war and all that BS, but really all I see is someone who purely hates Israel and would have rather seen Israel on the receiving end of this huh? What is the word I am looking for??.. oh yeah..

Hypocrite.

Good day.

Lebanon has endured and will continue to endure. Even oppressive countries like Israel won't break their spirit. Lebanon is everything Israel wishes it could be and then some. They have their own country and they don't need to occupy someone elses land. They even take care of something that should be Israels responsibility (Palestinian refugees) to do but as usual , the country without responsibilties has another crutch to fall upon. They have never been expelled, never massacred except by their new found neighbors and they were, and again will be the one of the more modern, progressive countries in the middle east. They have survived Ottomans, French occupation,Syrian occupation and israeli occupation. The land is fertile and the people don't have to go breaking into Syrian or Israeli stores just to eat. The food shortage was only done by the cruelty of Israel blockading supplies and and attacking food supplies via airstrikes in the cowardly fashion they are accustomed to, another one of their signature methods of punishment.

Perhaps IDF morals are more suited to your tastes, while I may be a hypocrite, I can sleep at night knowing I don't have to be a sadistic prik to accomplish what I need to do through oppression, racism, murder, deceit and thievery.

Why is it just because you worship Israel do you make it seem as though its a major crime or sin when someone else doesn't feel the same way? They are no different from any other country thats open to criticism. Millions of Americans ridicule France, Germany, England UAE, Saudi Arabia...when will it get into you Israel worshippers heads that there is nothing special about Israel and that people can either love her, hate her or be indifferent about her and it doesn't mean anything different other then an opinion. I bet there are Jews that still hate germany, that hate Syria, that hate Palestine, why don't you go to Israel and start questioning them, tell a Turk to hug a Cypriot or tell an Armenian to forgive Turkey. Spare me your eliteist bs please.

A side by side presentation of the 'ME mindset'.

How fortunate can we possibly be to have two very nice and very sincere people show us how this thing works!

Here's RockPuck presenting his views on recent events in Lebanon, representing something perhaps grounded in reality and actual events as they transpired...

Contrasted by ThePieMan's views on exactly the same events... grounded in... ah... A daydream... er... wishful thinking... ah... the marketing glossy of Islamic Jihad... no...

Hey! Anyone having ANY clue just what ThePieMans views are based on...

Please let me know.

Thanks.

And...

Note: Hezbollah is not feeding, sheltering, clothing the people in anyway, UN is.

Actually, you're completely wrong on that count.

Much as it makes for good propaganda to pretend Hezbollah is primarily a terrorist organization, the truth on the ground is that the vast bulk of Hezbollah is more like a social services agency. A "state within a state" in the truest sense of the phrase. And that's been one of the major secrets to their success and growing influence.

And Hezbollah is already on the streets, taking care of it's own. From MSNBC

And while the Lebanese government struggles, Hezbollah acts.

Speaking on TV, Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah promised the tens of thousands of people made homeless that he will pay their rent for one year, rebuild their apartments, even furnish them.

From the LA Times

The civilian face of the Shiite Muslim militant group reemerged quickly after the cease-fire began Monday, when the business of cleaning up from war supplanted the carnage of its prosecution.

"We are not terrorists," said Faras Jamil, 39, a restaurant owner who was helping clean up a community center in this Shiite border town, its crumbled stones tinged with what residents said were streaks of an Israeli soldier's blood.

"My wife is Hezbollah. My children are Hezbollah. Hezbollah is all the people from this town."

Even as government officials complain that they are expected to clear shattered towns with nothing but shovels and a few bulldozers, Hezbollah already owns or is in the process of renting the required machinery.

Most important, Hezbollah can draw on the manpower needed to begin the massive reconstruction.

Those factors present a serious challenge to the central government in Beirut and the Bush administration, which is scrambling to launch its own rebuilding effort and deny Hezbollah a public relations dividend.

In Aita Shaab, a still-smoldering ruin that is home to 10,000 people across the valley from Israel, a Hezbollah member in a Firestone cap moved through the streets Wednesday with a video camera to record the condition of each of the town's 700 houses.

His survey divided them into buildings that had been destroyed and those with limited damage; he said Hezbollah construction officials would decide whether to fix or rebuild each house.

"That one has limited damage," said Abu Hassan, pointing to a two-story house with gaping holes in the walls and tipping precariously to one side. But he categorized 85% of the houses in Aita Shaab as destroyed. And that is one town. Southern Lebanon is a travelogue of destruction: town after town pummeled by bombs and mortars that left them in shambles.

The destruction will present an expensive bill for Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, who has promised to rebuild every shattered house and pay each displaced family's rent for a year while the rebuilding takes place. Families of those who were killed will receive payments for life, Hezbollah members say.

[edit on 8/17/06 by xmotex]

Using your 'definitions' XMotex than the IDF/IAF are 'social services agencies' also?

That's what I like about ATS... It is SO educational.

I can't even understand what point you're trying to make.
Please try to make it a little clearer.

You said: 'Much as it makes for good propaganda to pretend Hezbollah is primarily a terrorist organization, the truth on the ground is that the vast bulk of Hezbollah is more like a social services agency.'

I said: 'Using your 'definitions' XMotex than the IDF/IAF are 'social services agencies' also?'

What part is it you're not getting?

Uh, no.

The IDF is a military force, a subset of the Israeli state.

Similarly the bulk of Hezbollah is not a military force, but a sprawling social services bureacracy.

If you don't believe me, look it up.

You somehow view killing Israeli civilians as a 'social service'?

That's fairly cold-blooded there XMotex.

This IS PTS but that doesn't mean that personal attacks are permitted. Pieman and Rockpuck, desist or wear your red flags.

Originally posted by xmotex

Note: Hezbollah is not feeding, sheltering, clothing the people in anyway, UN is.

Actually, you're completely wrong on that count.

Much as it makes for good propaganda to pretend Hezbollah is primarily a terrorist organization, the truth on the ground is that the vast bulk of Hezbollah is more like a social services agency. A "state within a state" in the truest sense of the phrase. And that's been one of the major secrets to their success and growing influence.

And Hezbollah is already on the streets, taking care of it's own. From MSNBC

And while the Lebanese government struggles, Hezbollah acts.

Speaking on TV, Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah promised the tens of thousands of people made homeless that he will pay their rent for one year, rebuild their apartments, even furnish them.

From the LA Times

The civilian face of the Shiite Muslim militant group reemerged quickly after the cease-fire began Monday, when the business of cleaning up from war supplanted the carnage of its prosecution.

"We are not terrorists," said Faras Jamil, 39, a restaurant owner who was helping clean up a community center in this Shiite border town, its crumbled stones tinged with what residents said were streaks of an Israeli soldier's blood.

"My wife is Hezbollah. My children are Hezbollah. Hezbollah is all the people from this town."

Even as government officials complain that they are expected to clear shattered towns with nothing but shovels and a few bulldozers, Hezbollah already owns or is in the process of renting the required machinery.

Most important, Hezbollah can draw on the manpower needed to begin the massive reconstruction.

Those factors present a serious challenge to the central government in Beirut and the Bush administration, which is scrambling to launch its own rebuilding effort and deny Hezbollah a public relations dividend.

In Aita Shaab, a still-smoldering ruin that is home to 10,000 people across the valley from Israel, a Hezbollah member in a Firestone cap moved through the streets Wednesday with a video camera to record the condition of each of the town's 700 houses.

His survey divided them into buildings that had been destroyed and those with limited damage; he said Hezbollah construction officials would decide whether to fix or rebuild each house.

"That one has limited damage," said Abu Hassan, pointing to a two-story house with gaping holes in the walls and tipping precariously to one side. But he categorized 85% of the houses in Aita Shaab as destroyed. And that is one town. Southern Lebanon is a travelogue of destruction: town after town pummeled by bombs and mortars that left them in shambles.

The destruction will present an expensive bill for Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, who has promised to rebuild every shattered house and pay each displaced family's rent for a year while the rebuilding takes place. Families of those who were killed will receive payments for life, Hezbollah members say.

[edit on 8/17/06 by xmotex]

Don't believe the crap you are watching on tv, Hez has no resources left available, all warehouses where hit, no supplies. They put on these smoke and mirror shows for American news, as CNN rightfully reported when they paraded ambulances to the sounds of pro-Hez music.. the CNN guy simply said "I think its time we leave.."

Hez WAS a social foundation, they are no longer capable of taking care of anyone, their infrastructure along with Lebanon's is gone.

To the Pieman.

Honestly.. no joke here, not making fun. Walk on down to your local college and enroll in a Middle East course and study the history of the ME please.

You say Lebanon never had problems with Palestine? HAHAHAHAHA rich, wow, ignorant comment of the day I thank you.

Lebanon was one of the FIRST countries to have problems with the Palestinian peoples! Every single country Palestine touches, it leaves death destruction and anarchy in its wake. They where actually removed from Lebanon, as in Jordan, both countries feared the Palestinians because they brought social unrest, ruthlessly assaulted Israel which resulted in bombings, they where the ones that helped pressure Jordan and Lebanon to side with Israels enemies in the 6day war.

Israel doesn't want to be Lebanon, a bankrupt country with a distorted government that can hardly stand on its own two feet, infested with militias that demand more respect then the federal government, weak economy, what is there that Israel would WANT from Lebanon besides water??? Please... tell me.. I'm dieing to know..

I want you to admit your not Anti War, admit you WANT Hezbollah and Hammas to win, I am so sick of self righteous people declaring war is bad when the ones they support are loosing, then make the first opportunity to say they won. Hypocrite.

That's one, we're not joking guys.

common intrepid that wasnt a personal attack, how can I challenge his views???? Besides, I never saw your post until after you warned me!

So what are you saying...

You somehow view killing Israeli civilians as a 'social service'?

Huh?

You're not making any sense.

Knock off the childish nonsense & posturing, you know perfectly well what I'm saying.

Most of Hezbollah is not involved in military activities of any kind.

This is well documented and not some kind of politicized claim. Any cursory bit of research into the organization will make it clear.

Don't believe the crap you are watching on tv, Hez has no resources left available, all warehouses where hit, no supplies.

OK... so I should believe some guy on the internet spewing Israeli propaganda as opposed to just about every news source out there? Sure.

Seems to me they have plenty of resources left, and not just the rockets either.

Originally posted by golemina
Using your 'definitions' XMotex than the IDF/IAF are 'social services agencies' also?

That's what I like about ATS... It is SO educational.

Actually no they leave that part to the American Taxpayer. IDF/IAF concentrates solely on destroying the property of others.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Lebanon was one of the FIRST countries to have problems with the Palestinian peoples! Every single country Palestine touches, it leaves death destruction and anarchy in its wake. They where actually removed from Lebanon, as in Jordan, both countries feared the Palestinians because they brought social unrest, ruthlessly assaulted Israel which resulted in bombings, they where the ones that helped pressure Jordan and Lebanon to side with Israels enemies in the 6day war.

Of course they had problems in lebanon #1 They don't belong there, #2 They live in Refugee camps, #3 The Christian phalangists along with Israel Massacred them by the hundreds, #4 They are restricted in as far as employment and Job positions. So of course they will be upset and of course they will fight. Which all leads back to the ROOT of the problem being Israel and Palestine!