ceasefire over then?

Originally posted by DarkUK

Originally posted by Ezekiel

Ok, if you want to believe the rhetoric of your 'always correct and righteous' goverment, the obvious saviours of the free world then that is entirely your perogative.

Im Australian BTW. So we really dont have that much of a vested interest in Israel.

No, but you will do when the trigger for WW3 is initiated. Australia is still a part of Sovereign Britain and so, as always, Tony Blair and co will not only be calling on me and my friends to bolster their armed forces when they run out of men, but they will be calling on you as well.

I will gladly fight alongside you when that day comes. Hopefully, we can all be vigilant enough tonot fall into the trap of sympathising with the terrorists and letting it get to that stage.

Originally posted by kickoutthejams
Dark I think you're asking for it there with the sovereign Britain remark - go easy on him Ezekiel! Aussies are fiercely proud of their independence.

However, Australia has taken a hard move to the right over recent years dare I say even downright belligerent in its attitude to immigration and the war on terror. Where does your senator stand on this?

Ok, I apologies for wording that incorrectly, however the Queen is still the head of state of Australia and so, as in all wars before, Britian can call on Australian troops. As we have gone a bit off track here, has anyone heard anything more from Lebanon?

Originally posted by kickoutthejams
Dark I think you're asking for it there with the sovereign Britain remark - go easy on him Ezekiel! Aussies are fiercely proud of their independence.

However, Australia has taken a hard move to the right over recent years dare I say even downright belligerent in its attitude to immigration and the war on terror. Where does your senator stand on this?

Haha =) Thats ok, Im not terribly concerned with Australia being part of the Commonwealth (and therefore under the Royal family). I think that strong cultural and political relationships between the UK and Australia are very important =D

You are right that Aus has moved to the right in recent years. I think this is due to Australians being very proud of our way of life and being very keen to preserve it.

My senator (as well as the majority of the Howard Government) are very happy for people to migrate to Australia so long as they are willing to integrate with the Australian culture and to become productive members of our society. However when they show up with no identification and no way to prove who they are and what their intent is, the government makes sure they will not be a threat which can unfortunately take a very long time. While they are sympathetic to these people, and dont want them languishing in dentention centers for years, their first responsibility is to the Australian people who want to maintain the peaceful and tolerant society we have.

On terrorists Aussies are fairly clear. They are not welcome here and anywhere we can help out we will =D (with the exception of a few radical lefties who think everyone should just hold hands and sing kum-bah-yah)

not yet but just wanna add with a little bit of gratitude to Oz that their soldiers are some of the best and toughest hombres around!

Now back to non-ceasefire

Originally posted by Ezekiel

Originally posted by kickoutthejams
Dark I think you're asking for it there with the sovereign Britain remark - go easy on him Ezekiel! Aussies are fiercely proud of their independence.

However, Australia has taken a hard move to the right over recent years dare I say even downright belligerent in its attitude to immigration and the war on terror. Where does your senator stand on this?

Haha =) Thats ok, Im not terribly concerned with Australia being part of the Commonwealth (and therefore under the Royal family). I think that strong cultural and political relationships between the UK and Australia are very important =D

You are right that Aus has moved to the right in recent years. I think this is due to Australians being very proud of our way of life and being very keen to preserve it.

My senator (as well as the majority of the Howard Government) are very happy for people to migrate to Australia so long as they are willing to integrate with the Australian culture and to become productive members of our society. However when they show up with no identification and no way to prove who they are and what their intent is, the government makes sure they will not be a threat which can unfortunately take a very long time. While they are sympathetic to these people, and dont want them languishing in dentention centers for years, their first responsibility is to the Australian people who want to maintain the peaceful and tolerant society we have.

On terrorists Aussies are fairly clear. They are not welcome here and anywhere we can help out we will =D (with the exception of a few radical lefties who think everyone should just hold hands and sing kum-bah-yah)

I think that the UK could learn something from out Australian brethren on that matter. I dont know if your aware of our policy on immigration, but basically it would appear we have none. Immigrants flood here in their thousands. Legally, illegally, it doesnt matter. There was a scam uncovered where illegals were being given National Insurance numbers (something you need to have to get a job, claim benefits such as unemployment payments, housing benefits etc.) by the job centres we have here. They are given housing, money, whatever they like. There was also a case of the Government overpaying thousands of people with benefits and when they realised what had happened they asked all ACTUAL british citizens to pay back what they had been overpayed, this equalled a lot of money in some cases. The immigrants who were overpayed were not only NOT asked to pay back the money, but were sent a letter of apology for being overpayed and were, as far as I know, allowed to keep the money.

Anyway I have gone wildly off topic here so I do apologise.

I have to say that there are not many news agencies reporting the continued fighting in Lebanon. Maybe because its Israel still killing people, and obviously they cannot do any wrong : )

Im at work so I cant get much access to news appart from what I can find on the internet. Got no TV : (

I think that the UK could learn something from out Australian brethren on that matter. I dont know if your aware of our policy on immigration, but basically it would appear we have none.

Australians are very aware of the problems in the UK from a lax immigration policy and I think that is part of the reason we are so tough on ours. We have a large population of British ex-pats, a lot of whom have found their way into the political parties, funnily enough mainly the conserative party.

Its not very nice of me to say, but John Howard has certainly learnt from some of the British Governments past mistakes and is making sure he stands tough on the immigration issue.

Anyway I have gone wildly off topic here so I do apologise.

hehe I went off on a tangent too.. Sorry for derailing the thread and please know that anything I say in here is all in the interest of good debate.

If it did come down to us Aussies fighting alongside Brits in WW3 Id gladly be there, though I would make sure there would be some interested debates along the way =D

not yet but just wanna add with a little bit of gratitude to Oz that their soldiers are some of the best and toughest hombres around!

Nearly missed that one! Yeah I have to agree with you there mate, our guys are pretty well trained and some of the reports that the Senator has had with regards to their operational capacity has been pretty impressive!

Not sure where your from, but the Brits have some good units as well (SAS, SBS) and I've heard that the USA's Navy seals and Rangers arent to be messed with =D

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]

Originally posted by Ezekiel

I think that the UK could learn something from out Australian brethren on that matter. I dont know if your aware of our policy on immigration, but basically it would appear we have none.

Australians are very aware of the problems in the UK from a lax immigration policy and I think that is part of the reason we are so tough on ours. We have a large population of British ex-pats, a lot of whom have found their way into the political parties, funnily enough mainly the conserative party.

Its not very nice of me to say, but John Howard has certainly learnt from some of the British Governments past mistakes and is making sure he stands tough on the immigration issue.

Anyway I have gone wildly off topic here so I do apologise.

hehe I went off on a tangent too.. Sorry for derailing the thread and please know that anything I say in here is all in the interest of good debate.

If it did come down to us Aussies fighting alongside Brits in WW3 Id gladly be there, though I would make sure there would be some interested debates along the way =D

Well maybe I will see you out there in the middle east ; )
I honestly hope not, conscription will be ugly, as will the war. This is not going to be a war in which I personally want to fight. There are higher agenda's at play here, and they are agenda's that do not have the peoples interests at heart.

I dont think that this is about oil anymore, its gone past that now. There is something else about this all that we are not seeing...

I agree this whole Lebanon thing is really just a precursor to war with Iran IMO.

Anyway back to the ceasefire,

I personally did not think a ceasefire would be effective until a UN peacekeeping force was operating in Southern Lebanon to prevent Hezbollah from attacking Israel.

However I dont even think that with a peacekeeping force there, Hezbollah will stop attacking Israel. The rockets they have now have amazing range and they are basically fire and forget missiles. They can shoot them, drop the shell and run.

I dont see this ending anytime soon and I think, based on the info we have been seeing that it will end with an attack against Iran. I reckon that if the Republicans get re-elected in the states it will be on the agenda for sure.

Yep, thats what Bush/Blair are after IMO, war with Iran. All they have banged on about since it began is how Syria and Iran are behind it. Its like they are trying to bait them into something larger.

I also hear earlier from somewhere that Israel have three Dolphin class nuclear submarines near to Iran. Can anyone confirm this? I dont seem to be able to find anything on it appart from the fact that they have the submarines.

Im leaving work in a few minutes but enjoy the debate and I will check back with you guys soon!

I can confirm that about the subs although I read it last week somewhere and it only mentioned 2 of them...

It's a real shame this has happened to Lebanon and listening to PM on Radio 4 (BBC) today they were interviewing Lebanese and many have said things like 'we are all Hizbollah now' This is what happens unfortunately. The same happened with Palestinians. Bomb their homes, kill their family members of course those who survive are going to hate those who caused the destruction. It's a law of nature. If your own family were killed and house destroyed you wouldn't have anything to live for except revenge.

I also think it's true. The Cheney plan for Iran has been a long time in the coming, whether it's their nuclear power program or their support of Hizbollah or something else entirely. It's coming but this time I don't think it will wash.

KickOutTheJams:'My God there is no answer to such bigoted incomprehensible ignorance. People like you won't be happy until everyone in the world is dead.'

Nah... nothing of the sort. Just laying the blame for the death and carnage squarely where it belongs.

Arabs/Muslims are the folks 100% responsible for the mayhem in the ME.

That's where YOU should be laying the blame for the 'incomprehensible ignorance'.



The Israelis are just looking for a tiny scrap of the world. Arabs/Muslims would rather engage in the insanity you see everyday rather than treat them as their fellow brothers (read humans).

NO AMOUNT of your yada yada yada justifications can hide that fact.

Arabs/Muslims like to KILL. That's just what they do...

It's not like its rational.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by golemina]

Originally posted by golemina

The Israelis are just looking for a tiny scrap of the world. Arabs/Muslims would rather engage in the insanity you see everyday rather than treat them as their fellow brothers (read humans).

This is the problem. You have already been given your scrap of the world, and Israel is still looking for more scraps to add to that scrap of land to make it bigger. Maybe when your government stops "looking" thats when people all over the world will be in a better place. My brother does not attempt to take what is mine. He will ask and If I please , I will allow it. Don't expect palestinians to treat you as a brother when you take the food on his plate even before he eats it. Brothers share.

Great story line mate...

Unfortuntately two words expose it for just so much more nonsense...

Egypt and Jordan.

Originally posted by Ezekiel


And IM sorry but a lot of countries (including Australia, Britain, France, Canada, US, Japan) list Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation.

Er, no they don't. 4 countries list Hezbollha as Terrorist's. They are, the USA, Canada, Israel and the Netherlands.

That is it. No one else. So calm down with your BS and rhetoric.

Originally posted by golemina
Great story line mate...

Unfortuntately two words expose it for just so much more nonsense...

Egypt and Jordan.

Egypt and Jordan? They don't live in the same space, and egypt got a great perk out of the deal. They are 2nd on the list for US aid after israel with 2.2 billion every year, so of course they will kiss some butt.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by Ezekiel


And IM sorry but a lot of countries (including Australia, Britain, France, Canada, US, Japan) list Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation.

Er, no they don't. 4 countries list Hezbollha as Terrorist's. They are, the USA, Canada, Israel and the Netherlands.

That is it. No one else. So calm down with your BS and rhetoric.

Sorry mate I know for a fact that Australia and Britain considers them a terrorist organisation as well. Not 100% sure that France does, thats the only one I could be mistaken on.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]

Ok have checked it out, the European Union while not listing Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation, does have this position:

"The EU Parliament passed a resolution recognizing "clear evidence" of "terrorist activities by Hezbollah". [162].

"The EU Council does list Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer, Imad Mugniyah, as a terrorist".

en.wikipedia.org...

So the only one I was mistaken about was France. What was that about BS and rhetoric?

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]

There are 19 organisations currently listed by the australian govt here

Hizballah External Security Organisation is listed but were only reinstated in 2005 after being off the list for a couple of years, their political arm is not listed.

Originally posted by Ezekiel
Sorry mate I know for a fact that Australia and Britain considers them a terrorist organisation as well. Not 100% sure that France does, thats the only one I could be mistaken on.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]

Ok have checked it out, the European Union while not listing Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation, does have this position:

"The EU Parliament passed a resolution recognizing "clear evidence" of "terrorist activities by Hezbollah". [162].

"The EU Council does list Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer, Imad Mugniyah, as a terrorist".

en.wikipedia.org...

So the only one I was mistaken about was France. What was that about BS and rhetoric?

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]

Really, Britain do as well? Thats news to me, because last time I checked, we did not. Can you provide me with a link or something?

As to these "terrorist" activities they apparently engage in, the only attacks that hezbollah take part in are attacks on IDF positions inside of Lebanon during the late 80's, early 90's. If your alluding that they did the Marine Barracks bomb or the French bomb, then these were done before Hezbollahs foundation in 1985.

The current rocket attacks, whilst deliberately targetting population centres which is to be abhored, are not terrorist attacks. One could argue that it was for economic reasons, as the damge to israels economy is said to be over $1 Billion. If Hezbollahs attacks are to be considered terrorist, then so should Israels indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure, which has been called a War crime by the UNHCR.

[
Really, Britain do as well? Thats news to me, because last time I checked, we did not. Can you provide me with a link or something?

The info is in that same link I posted about the EU.

The current rocket attacks, whilst deliberately targetting population centres which is to be abhored, are not terrorist attacks. One could argue that it was for economic reasons, as the damge to israels economy is said to be over $1 Billion.

You cant be serious. Rocket attacks aimed at civilians NOT terrorist attacks? Economic reasons???? So by your logic the WTC 9/11 attacks were not terrorist attacks but purely economical as well then, since it caused great financial loss to America. Thats a dangerous line your toeing there mate.

If Hezbollahs attacks are to be considered terrorist, then so should Israels indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure, which has been called a War crime by the UNHCR.

I dont know how many times its been said but Ill say it anyway.

Israel is TARGETING KEY HEZBOLLAH TARGETS. They are not bombing indiscriminately. Read the article written by a the Lebanese journalist that I posted, where he points out that Israel have been very precise and careful with their strikes.

THey are not just shooting rockets recklessly like Hezbollah, they are attacking targets that are either: Hezbollah missile launching sites, or Hezbollah strongholds.

While the accidental killings of civilians is abhorrent and great tragedy, it is not terrorism and it is not intentional.

As far as the UN / UNHCR goes, they are a worthless organisation that cant even organise a peacekeeping force to get in there and sorth this mess out.