National I.D. Card Mandatory May 2008 !!!!

Originally posted by Valhall
The Social Security number was NEVER supposed to be used for anything but the Social Security system. And it has had an illustrious 70+ year run of doing everything in addition to that...including being submitted as a possible "national tracking number" last year!

Uh huh, yet in that illustrious 70+ year history it has not been used to track your every move, control you and your thoughts, imprison you etc... And Congress has passed legislation to regulate and restrict the use of SSN’s by federal agencies, something of course a Big Brother type government would do.
This should highlight the fact that the government was willing to pass legislation in order to protect new uses for identification systems from abuse. The fears expressed when SS was being considered were, and still remain irrational and exaggerated, not unlike the fears express about this National ID card.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

Originally posted by ThichHeaded

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
blaba

You got a link for this.

I have one thing to people who like this idea.

Hi,

This is quite an old link (2005) but its been in and out of our news ever since:
news.bbc.co.uk...

Ya thanks for that link man. Alex Jones was talking about this about a year ago, I kinda blew it off. You have anything recent on this new tax crap?? I would like to get more info on it.

The ID card is not the problem, the problem is what it could be used for.

In Portugal we have been using ID cards for many years, but we had a dictatorship from 1926 to 1974.

Our ID card has this informations:
   photo
   fingerprint
   signature
   ID card number
   ID card issue date and place
   person name
   parents names
   birth place
   city of residence
   date of birth
   married status
   height
   ID card expiration date

It is used primarily to confirm the identity of that person, and is the only valid ID document, besides the passport, that can be used in Portugal.

If a police officer stop us in the street and asks us for some ID (I never heard of anything like that happening since 1974) we should show him/her our ID, if not we can be taken to the police station and from there we can ask for someone to bring us our ID. We can also get another person with an ID that could attest our identity.

Where I see reasons for concern in the US ID card is in the "machine readable" part.

I do not think that there is a big problem in having a machine readable card, the problem is if the card is "machine writable" also.

Common cards with chips can be written as well as read, so, if the card is machine readable and we can not read it, then there is the possibility that the card can be updated without our knowledge of what is put there.

I think that there is a good probability of the cards being writable, because a system like that has a lot of advantages for the authorities, the reading stations where the card could be read do not need to have a connection to a central database, making the system cheaper and portable.

But if they are writable, what kind of information is updated? Only with access to that information (in a post office, for example) can everybody be sure that the system is used only for basic identification purposes.

In Portugal we are protected from those dangers by the constitution, that says that we have the right to know any data about us that is in a machine readable format or that was made by a machine, regardless of who has that data. Only hand made records are considered of restricted and personal use to the one who made them.

In a country like ours that private companies has free reign on what they can do for profits and back up by the government itself. . . you just leave it to the imaginations as what they can do with personal information and the new ways to make it better for us citizens to have not privacy anymore.

One of Val post brought to me a very good point I feel how people are so compliant about what’s been done in our nation . . . is about new generations this should be a topic on its own.

The old generations know exactly what society in the name of safety, improvements and technology has gain and lost. . .

New generations will not make a fuss at what the government in the name of improvements and national security is doing because they have been born already with the brainwashing that all is for the good of their safety and the nation.

As more generations comes the indoctrination of a new world will be more attainable by the powers in our nation and the complains will be scarce and easily tagged as insurgency against our nation by a few.

By the time that under skin implants comes about no body will complain and will willingly accept it, because already they would be born into a new system and brainwashed for more changes.

We are losing a lot but the new generations will never know.

Like I said before . . . what was just fiction in the past is becoming a reality in our times.




[edit on 15-8-2006 by marg6043]

I just see it as an extension to the social security number. We are already numbered like cattle.

I hate this.

Sometimes freedom is worth the sacrifice of safety. Not in entirety, but in part.

Does no one know or is no one answering my questions of how the ID card are any different from a state drivers license, which I need to get on a plane, train or open a bank account. This seems to be a lot of paranoia over something that is different or new. Of course I expect that on ATS, but what makes these ID cards so different and dangerous?

Originally posted by the_sentinal
I wonder how much a national I.D. will cost us here in the U.S. I dont want too pay 200.00 dollars for an I.D. card I dont want........

Would more likely be $20-$30 in price. Jsut liek the mandatory state I.D.s we already have.

Originally posted by zerotime
Of course I expect that on ATS, but what makes these ID cards so different and dangerous?

Everytime that our elected government force citizens to abide by imposed new laws that targets our civil rights and the rights to privacyWe the people lose a littler bit more of our rights to go against the same government that the constitution protect us from.

Governments are elected they do not own the people the people owns the government.

So who's security is been taken care off? is the question.

The government? so it can control the people?

Or the people that controls the government.

Very scary times we are living in this nation.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by marg6043]

zerotime: nothing !
We are already numbered items. BUT - This will add more holes in the system. Good for those with power and wealth, bad for .... well .... everyone else.

Originally posted by zerotime
Does no one know or is no one answering my questions of how the ID card are any different from a state drivers license, which I need to get on a plane, train or open a bank account. This seems to be a lot of paranoia over something that is different or new. Of course I expect that on ATS, but what makes these ID cards so different and dangerous?

I answered this question... I think you may have missed it.

Originally posted by craig732
The bill does not call for a federal ID card.

It calls for "a federally approved ID card" with "machine readable technology".

Many people in the United States already have this.

Anyone who live in New York State that has a Driver's License or a Non-Driver ID has this. The ID cards have a bar code with all your information on it that can be read by a machine.

It is ID cards like this that they are talking about ... the IDs all will have to meet standards so they can be authenticated by a unversal system.

Originally posted by ArMaP
I do not think that there is a big problem in having a machine readable card, the problem is if the card is "machine writable" also.

Here in Malaysia we have been using machine readable ID cards for the past 6-7 years I think. It has been splendid, much better than the old card because it makes verification faster as well as being tied in to all kinds of other services like the employee's providend fund, banks, immigration department, etc.

Because it contains biometric information like our fingerprints, only after we have verified our identity with our thumbprint will the machine start reading the contents of the chip embedded in the card.

The ID card can also funtion as a "touch and go" kind of bus/train ticket, with an amount of cash pre-loaded inside. How it works is you simply have to touch the card onto a device which will then deduct the fare from your prepaid balance. Something like the Visa Wave I think.

Another function our ID cards have is as a sort of charge card, so you don't have to carry cash on your person. Unfortunately the charge card system is a bit buggy at the moment.

Originally posted by marg6043
Everytime that our elected government force citizens to abide by imposed new laws that targets our civil rights and the rights to privacyWe the people lose a littler bit more of our rights to go against the same government that the constitution protect us from.

I guess this is what I do not get. What rights exactly would be taken away by a federal ID card? What privacies would be removed from us citizens? To get on a plane, take a train or open a bank account we already need to show our divers license and sometimes several other forms of ID. The card seems to be exactly the same as most states normal drivers license. The cards advantage to the government seems to be that it would be a unifying identification card instead of all of the different state ID cards. I do not see anything here that removes any basic rights. It would be the exact same process we have right now only instead of showing a drivers license we show the Federal ID - or maybe both.



[edit on 15-8-2006 by zerotime]

Originally posted by zerotime
What rights exactly would be taken away by a federal ID card?

That reminded me of something.

What rights does an US citizen have? Can someone see a list of those rights anywhere, or only searching the laws do we find those rights?

I ask this because in Portugal the first part of our Constitution is all about the citizens rights and duties.

Does the US have something like this?


PS: you can find an English translation of the Constitution of the
Portuguese Republic here.

They tried this in South Korea in the 90s and was a complete waste of about a billion dollars as it came under fire from an immense public back lash. I think they're trying again in 2008. It is bizzare of why anyone would say no to this, but the public always was wary of just about anything new I guess.

Originally posted by ArMaP

What rights does an US citizen have? Can someone see a list of those rights anywhere, or only searching the laws do we find those rights?

Right now we have None anymore.

They have been striped, tagged, numbered, photographed put in databases with our fingerprints and our DNAs (when needed).

We don't have any privacy anymore it has been gone the day that social security was enacted.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by zerotime
What rights exactly would be taken away by a federal ID card?

That reminded me of something.

What rights does an US citizen have? Can someone see a list of those rights anywhere, or only searching the laws do we find those rights?

I ask this because in Portugal the first part of our Constitution is all about the citizens rights and duties.

Does the US have something like this?


PS: you can find an English translation of the Constitution of the
Portuguese Republic here.

The US constitution was the model for many other democracies around the world and our rights also make up the first part of the constitution. You can see those rights here: usinfo.state.gov...

Hope this helps

Originally posted by Stormrider
The US constitution was the model for many other democracies around the world and our rights also make up the first part of the constitution. You can see those rights here: usinfo.state.gov...

Hope this helps

It does, thank you.

With this information now I can understand it better.

marg6043
Could you tell me what are the rights from that list that have been taken?

Thank you.

We have lost in every single area since the Bush administration.

1- Separation of powers – Oversight responsibilities, granting Bush unfettered powers under war on terror.
2- Immigrants’ rights- Chief immigration orders closed deportation proceedings.
3- Open democracy- Reduce government compliance with freedom of information act.
4- Free press- White house controlling information released to press.
5- Privacy, right to counsel-monitoring ofattorney-client conversations.
6- Equal protection- Tagging middle eastern and south asian men.
7- Consolidation of government power-new cabinet-level Department of Homeland Security.

Under the patriot act
1- Privacy, search and seizure protection-Wiretaping powers extended with reduced judicial review or none., "Sneak and Peek" searches authorized without a warrant with low showing of probable cause ,
2- Immigrants’rights, due process of law-indefinitely detain non-citizens based on suspicion of terrorism
3- Free speech-Broad definition of 'domestic terrorism' allows surveillance of political dissenters
4- Privacy, consolidation of government powers.- information-sharing powers for intelligence agencies.

If you think that this all a big joke wake up and read the law before and after President Bush.

i personaly have not 1 bit of a problem with any of this unless your hiding something who cares. unless you think your above top secret posts are being monitered by you know who ????