Illuminating masons

video.google.com...

Listen to him, at about the 4th minute he starts talking about george washinton and other freemasons who warned about freemasonry, NOT BECAUSE THEY WHERE ALLE VIL, CAUSE THEY WANRED US, but because some aspects where evil.
That is what ive been trying to tell you all along, NOT ALL MASONS ARE EVIL!!!!!

Don't remember who brought this movie to me, but the guy who did, tnq.

[edit on 12-8-2006 by Patronas]

A wall is built brick by brick, while the brick itself or the friendly mortar that holds them together of course may not be evil, the wall they create is. Not all suberversive power structures are evil either, but they are all by nature subversive powerstructures nonetheless though. Not all shareholders are corrupted criminals, but the coporation they support and comprise is. The only real exoneration here is not being a brick in the wall in the first place.

Straight from the horse's mouth (Albert Pike Morals and Dogma):

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry ... It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whose attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain."

However, I am not so sure why so many Masons seem to have so much free time to spend here.... If they were real masons with any clout there's no way they would be allowed to waste their precious time here. Unless they had a whitewash job to do.
My theory is that this whole site is set up by freemasons. How do you explain the disproportionate amount of masonic moderators and sympathisers on a conspiracy site! Talk about sleeping with the enemy.



[edit on 12-8-2006 by Edelweiss Pirate]

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
Straight from the horse's mouth (Albert Pike Morals and Dogma):
[snip]

Wow. Pike quoted out of context yet again in order to deliberately misguide the unknowing. How original, Edelweiss

However, I am not so sure why so many Masons seem to have so much free time to spend here. If they were real masons with any clout there's no way they would be allowed to waste their precious time here.

"Allowed" by whom? Do you honestly think we report in daily to the Grand Master? Ha! You're a riot.

I can't speak personally for any of the other Masons on board, but the reason I can spend so much time here is I spent several years in college so I could get a job that allowed me to do what I want to do when I want to do it. And that's what I do.

You see, as difficult as this may be to comprehend, Masons are people too. We have jobs, families, we're on bowling leagues, softball teams, we belong to country clubs and the PTA. We like to have some recreation from time to time and personally the silliness spouted on this site (like some of the messages you post) are so wonderfully entertaining that I sometimes can't tear myself away. :p

Unless they had a whitewash job to do.

I think is YOU guys who have a whitewash job to do. Otherwise how could YOU spend so much time here? Hmm? I think you're ALL connected with freemasonrwatch.com (a favorite site to quote here) and you're getting paid to perpetuate that site! How about that?

My theory is that this whole site is set up by freemasons. How do you explain the disproportionate amount of masonic moderators and sympathisers on a conspiracy site!

If I've read this forum carefully (and I've gone back and read posts from the very beginning, I believe there's only ONE Moderator who's a Mason and he doesn't post much. Better do some homework there. I think it's TOO disproportionate. Maybe there should be more Mason moderators, huh?

And sure, there are several Masons on here but there are FAR more non-Masons than members. Not all of the non-members are mason haters like yourself, though so they don't post as often.

talk about sleeping with the enemy

I sure hate that you think of me as "the enemy" You don't even KNOW me. If you did you'd find that I'm just a regular guy. A father of three who gets up, drinks some coffee, takes the $&*# dog for a walk, takes the kids to school, goes to work, plays some golf, has a beer with his friends after work, cooks out on the grill in the summer, makes chili for the family in the winter. Ordinary stuff.

Oh! Gotta go. The Grand Master is on the phone. I need to report in for the day.


(edit to correct quotes)

[edit on 12-8-2006 by Appak]

Wow. Pike quoted out of context yet again in order to deliberately misguide the unknowing. How original, Edelweiss

How is that out of context? he quoted it exactly like it's written... you just gonna say dumb things without backing it up? isn't that what your pissed off at all the non-masons in here for doing? hypocracy is fun, no?

"Allowed" by whom? Do you honestly think we report in daily to the Grand Master? Ha! You're a riot.

I can't speak for the other guy but i think you probably do report to him on a regular basis, because your a pawn. but that's just me...

I can't speak personally for any of the other Masons on board, but the reason I can spend so much time here is I spent several years in college so I could get a job that allowed me to do what I want to do when I want to do it. And that's what I do.

aren't you supposed to be somewhere helping children get chips implanted in their arms for tracking? why don't you go do that instead of bashing people trying to uncover the truth? we don't know everything, so we like to learn, but you provide no insight into the discussion. all you do is bad mouth people and change the subject.

You see, as difficult as this may be to comprehend, Masons are people too. We have jobs, families, we're on bowling leagues, softball teams, we belong to country clubs and the PTA. We like to have some recreation from time to time and personally the silliness spouted on this site (like some of the messages you post) are so wonderfully entertaining that I sometimes can't tear myself away. :p

i highly doubt that ANYONE would spend so much time looking at a sight populated, according to you, by idiots who don't know what there talking about. yeah, it would be funny to go to a site about the KKK, even though i'm not a racist, and read their message board full of lies, and silliness. that's dumb. you can't honestly expect us to believe that listening to people you think is lying is fun.

I think is YOU guys who have a whitewash job to do. Otherwise how could YOU spend so much time here? Hmm? I think you're ALL connected with freemasonrwatch.com (a favorite site to quote here) and you're getting paid to perpetuate that site! How about that?

simple, were free men. we are not pawns in a game of screw it up and cover it up. we are trying to find the truth, and everyitme we get close, masons come in and derail the thread, redusing it to:

"YOUR DUMB..... NO YOUR DUMB..... NO YOUR DUMB..... NO YOUR DUMB!!!!!!!"

you would think a group of old humanitarians working for peace and enlightenment would be much more mature. but you would be wrong.

If I've read this forum carefully (and I've gone back and read posts from the very beginning, I believe there's only ONE Moderator who's a Mason and he doesn't post much. Better do some homework there. I think it's TOO disproportionate. Maybe there should be more Mason moderators, huh?

yeah and lets put army officers to monitor the area 51 thread, and governers to monitor the political conspiracies thread, and people from FEMA to monitor the katrina conspiracies thread. do you not see how even one could be counterproductive? it seems too convienent.

I sure hate that you think of me as "the enemy" You don't even KNOW me. If you did you'd find that I'm just a regular guy. A father of three who gets up, drinks some coffee, takes the $&*# dog for a walk, takes the kids to school, goes to work, plays some golf, has a beer with his friends after work, cooks out on the grill in the summer, makes chili for the family in the winter. Ordinary stuff.

and every once in a while you off a pesky guy who tries to warn people. william cooper anyone? but hey, if no one is there to see the tree fall, it doesn't make a sound right?

Originally posted by hexrain1
How is that out of context? he quoted it exactly like it's written... isn't that what your pissed off at all the non-masons in here for doing?

Simple. You're taking one little quote and not the whole section which explains what Pike was talking about. Pike's book was written for members of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction. Not for the general public. Those who have not received the Degrees of the Southern Jurisdiction AASR, CANNOT fully understand what Pike was talking about. The fact of the matter is many of the Masons who HAVE received the degrees cannot fully understand what Pike was talking about.

Sounds like YOU are the one pissed of here, bub. You don't have enough lead in your pencil to piss me off.

I can't speak for the other guy but i think you probably do report to him on a regular basis, because your a pawn. but that's just me...

Sure is easy to insult someone you don't know while behind the safety of your computer screen. That's really sad.

aren't you supposed to be somewhere helping children get chips implanted in their arms for tracking?

I sure hope not. I can't stand the sight of blood. Besides, we don't do that. More misguided speculation and assumption posted as fact (see a previous thread on this subject, but PLEASE don't rekindle it. Let it die peacefully)

why don't you go do that instead of bashing people trying to uncover the truth?

So you don't call wild speculation and vicious lies about people you DON'T EVEN KNOW "bashing"? You should take a long hard look into the mirror before accusing me (or anyone else of "bashing") I don't have to stoop to bashing. I know you're wrong about Freemasonry. Know how I know? I AM ONE AND YOU AREN'T. If you want information go to the source, not to outsiders who are speculating just like yourself. You'll NEVER get anywhere like that. I thought you wanted truth, not the perpetuation of untruth? Deny Ignorance, remember?

we don't know everything, so we like to learn,

No. You've already made up your mind. Read your posts. You're not willing to accept that the "facts" you've "discovered" might be misguided. You're not learning, you're just spreading the same mistruths that have been spread by others. You're perpetuating the unfounded speculation of others.

but you provide no insight into the discussion. all you do is bad mouth people

I'm not bad-mouthing you. I don't know you. I just recognize the hatred and spite in your posts toward people you don't know about and aren't willing to listen to, even though you SAY you want to learn.

i highly doubt that ANYONE would spend so much time looking at a sight populated, according to you, by idiots who don't know what there talking about.

Why do you care so much that I spend time on this site? Is it because I'm a Mason that you don't want me here? Should all Masons be booted from ATS so the non-Masons could spend more time wildly speculating about them without being checked by truth?

Besides, I never said it was populated by idiots. There are a lot of knowledgeable posters here. Some are Masons, some are not.

yeah, it would be funny to go to a site about the KKK, even though i'm not a racist, and read their message board full of lies, and silliness. that's dumb. you can't honestly expect us to believe that listening to people you think is lying is fun.

I *think* I understand that statement.?!? Anyway if you find a KKK site that is extolling the good works of the KKK and what a fine Christian organization they are, would you believe it? The reason I ask is you've found anti-Masonic sites that tell what evil, horrible, baby-eating monsters the Freemasons are and you seem to believe that. Being in print, doesn't make something factual.

simple, were free men. we are not pawns in a game of screw it up and cover it up.

So are we. Hence the name FREE Masons. We're not pawns either, despite your adamant belief to the contrary.

we are trying to find the truth, and everyitme we get close, masons come in and derail the thread,

First and foremost hexrain, you've never EVER gotten "close" You're not even in the ballpark. You do not WANT the truth. You've made up your mind a LONG time ago. You think you (as an outsider) have discovered all these great truths that members of Freemasonry who've been active and worked hard in the Order for YEARS are too stupid and moronic to realize and you've come here hoping someone will listen to you and think you wise on the subject. Don't feel bad, that's not a new concept by any stretch.

You're disappointed when actual Freemasons who know what they're talking about do not take you seriously.

you would think a group of old humanitarians working for peace and enlightenment would be much more mature. but you would be wrong.

And you accused ME of "bashing" What good does insulting do? Methinks YOU are the one who needs some maturing.

yeah and lets put army officers to monitor the area 51 thread, governers to monitor political conspiracies, and FEMA to monitor katrina conspiracies . do you not see how even one could be counterproductive? it seems too convienent.

Yeah, it'd be a shame to have someone who actually KNOWS what they're talking about in charge of something, huh? Wow. We might LEARN something...something like uhmm...TRUTH.

You're right! Off with their heads! I say! [shrug]

and every once in a while you off a pesky guy who tries to warn people.

Tries to warn them of WHAT? The same silly stuff that's been on this forum forever? The same silly stuff that's been printed over and over and over since the late 1700's? And honestly hexrain1. I don't think you're "pesky" If you'll go back and read the archives, you'll find that there have been dozens of "hexrains" here in the past, posting the same thing you're posting and listening about as intently as you do, for it would appear, that they were as anxious to learn as you obviously are. If you do get serious about learning the truth, honestly, we'll be glad to assist. And you don't even have to have the micro-chip implanted in your skin. (At least not right away) :roll

Bravo Appak!

As a long time member of this site who is sick to death of people who come in here WITH NO PROOF to back up their claims, that slander Freemasons with all kinds of ridiculous stories and claims (The exploding toilet saga comes to mind....)

These people always claim to be "searching for the truth" and trying to "inform people about what freemasons are really up to".

However as you pointed out, they come in here with a preconceived notion in their head and refuse to listen to the ACTUAL MASONS on the board, while they are allowed to further their agenda of mis-information, often in threads that have NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH CONSPIRACY!!!

In my opinion the mods are too lax on these kinds of people and if they truly wanted to preserve the good reputation this site has (or had) they would at least try to encourage these people to be a little less inflamatory and outright rude towards the Masons who are members of this website.

I joined this site many years before I became a Mason (only just became a MM) and really enjoyed the intelligent and respectful discussion that was Abovetopsecret. Yes there was the occasional episode of rudeness and lack of respect, but the mods always pulled the people into line and made sure they were able to get their point across - just not at the expense of common decency.

Originally posted by Ezekiel
Bravo Appak! As a long time member of this site who is sick to death of people who come in here WITH NO PROOF to back up their claims, that slander Freemasons with all kinds of ridiculous stories and claims (The exploding toilet saga comes to mind....)

Thank you Ezekiel! (Accckkk! The Masons are sticking up for each other. Masonic conspiracy, Masonic Conspiracy! Citizens Arrest! Citizens Arrest!

These people always claim to be "searching for the truth" and trying to "inform people about what freemasons are really up to". However as you pointed out, they come in here with a preconceived notion in their head and refuse to listen to the ACTUAL MASONS on the board, while they are allowed to further their agenda of mis-information, often in threads that have NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH CONSPIRACY!!!

Absolutely. It isn't truth they're looking for, because they've already found what they believe is true. They just want a listening ear.

What I find amusing is how they come on with insults ("You guys are twisted" comes to mind. "Brainwashed" "You need to be deprogrammed" yadda yadda) True seekers of knowledge (and there have been a few here) come on and say "I heard" or "someone told me" followed by "I don't really know, do you?" Those people are a far cut above the others. They actually WANT to know the truth and are willing to listen to actual Masons. I guess it's a Catch-22 because the ones who because of some flaw in human nature just want to believe what is bad, are the ones who say "I can't believe the Masons, they're brainwashed. They're lying to cover up the truth" So they turn to some supposed Minister of the Gospel (who for a "donation" of $29.99 will send you a $2.00 video tape of the Masons secrets). Funny thing is, those guys have been around since Freemasonry has been around. They're a dime a dozen and there's truly nothing new under the sun.

I joined this site many years before I became a Mason (only just became a MM) and really enjoyed the intelligent and respectful discussion that was Abovetopsecret. Yes there was the occasional episode of rudeness and lack of respect, but the mods always pulled the people into line and made sure they were able to get their point across - just not at the expense of common decency.

Yes, I've seen a few of those threads. Some of them went for pages and pages and some were (appropriately) locked right away. Human passion gets the better of all of us from time to time.

I still contend that the conspiracy here is not that Masons have been sent here to secretly infiltrate ATS but that anti-Masons have been sent here by their secret superiors (I know they have them, but they're "upper level" anti-Masons and the common ordinary anti-Mason isn't privy to their existence until it's too late and they're brainwashed to assist with the "ultimate goal" (the NWO...shhh!)

But when Masons post something contrary to their half-baked "facts" they're wont to jump up and yell that it's a Masonic conspiracy. They have the right to post any garbage they want, but Masons must be quiet and listen while we're lied about.

Reminds me of the old Monty Python skit. "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

[edit on 12-8-2006 by Appak]

the fact is guys that just as i can make statements that can't be proven and do... you do the same as well. no one has ever proven or disproven anything on any of these threads. go find me a thread where anyone has proven anything. the nature of a conspiracy theory is that it can't be proven. if you could prove or disprove that masons were or were not bent on world domination and black magic, then this thread wouldn't exist.

just because a mason gives me an answer refuting claims that i make doesnt make it true. just like when i write about the horrors your organization commits, doesnt make it true.

i would like to bring light to a misconception. i do not claim that anything i put forth is the absolute truth. i admit that if the masons control the world, then they control information too, meaning that information they don't want to get out, won't. so i may be stating information that was planted by them on purpose to mislead. i recognize the fact that i could be wrong. there might be nothing wrong with the masonic organization. i may be delusional. but at least i can admit it. you guys cant accept the fact that there may be parts of your organization that you do not know about. thats my main problem. you tell others they have no idea what there talking about, but you cant admit that you yourself are fallible.

but my experience tells me there is something wrong with the way you guys operate, so , whether or not you agree with me i'm going to keep giving people my side of the story. let them make there own descision. deny ignorance indeed...

Originally posted by hexrain1
the fact is guys that just as i can make statements that can't be proven and do... you do the same as well.

On that, hexrain, we agree.

no one has ever proven or disproven anything on any of these threads. go find me a thread where anyone has proven anything. the nature of a conspiracy theory is that it can't be proven. if you could prove or disprove that masons were or were not bent on world domination and black magic, then this thread wouldn't exist.

Again, we agree. Otherwise it wouldn't be called a "theory"

just because a mason gives me an answer refuting claims that i make doesnt make it true. just like when i write about the horrors your organization commits, doesnt make it true.

Very true. However when you make claims based on what notorious Mason-haters and opportunists say, why should it be taken seriously? Particularly when these are, for the most part, people who've NEVER stepped inside a Masonic Lodge Building? Why wouldn't an ACTUAL Mason know BETTER than a Non-member what REALLY goes on? If I wanted to know what happened in my town's City Council meeting would I ask someone on the street or perhaps a Council member? or even the Mayor? See what I mean? (I'm not saying it's impossible that the Mayor would lie to me, but why would he if he had nothing to hide?)

i would like to bring light to a misconception. i do not claim that anything i put forth is the absolute truth.

Strange. You said the following and it SEEMS from the tone and the lack of question marks that you're stating it to be fact:

originally posted by hexrain1
Masons hold the knowledge of geomancy. ...Native Americans knew about leylines and there holy sites were located on these. When our forefathers came to this country (many being masons) they built masonic lodges on top of these sites. ... The masons now have that knowledge and are using it on humans.

(one can only imply from that statement that you think Masons aren't humans)

and later you said

I notice you didn't dispute the fact about lodges being built on native american sacred places.

and then

I'm telling people what I know, for what it's worth. I don't claim to know many things, but the two things I posted at the top of this thread are some of the only pieces of truth I can hold on to in this age of disinformation and heresay.

Sure was stated like you claimed it to be the "absolute truth" Just where did you obtain these "facts" anyway?

i admit that if the masons control the world, then they control information too, meaning that information they don't want to get out, won't. so i may be stating information that was planted by them on purpose to mislead.

Very true. But I contend that Masons couldn't *possibly* control the world, as we can't even get our own members to show up for meetings. 12-14 people attending out of a Lodge with 200+ membership is a sad fact.

i recognize the fact that i could be wrong. there might be nothing wrong with the masonic organization. i may be delusional. but at least i can admit it.

Yes. Anyone can be mistaken. But stating things like the above info as cold hard facts isn't going to get you anywhere if you indeed want to know.

you guys cant accept the fact that there may be parts of your organization that you do not know about. thats my main problem. you tell others they have no idea what there talking about, but you cant admit that you yourself are fallible.

Certainly we can accept that. But again it begs the question. How is it that NON-MEMBERS can KNOW something about an organization if it's kept such a deep-dark secret from MEMBERS? See the fallacy in that thinking? We're ignorant, though many of us have college degrees and operate successful businesses, etc. and are kept in the dark. Yet, non-members read something on a web-site and suddenly know what's been kept from the Mason-morons. [sigh]

but my experience tells me there is something wrong with the way you guys operate,

What experience is that? Have you ever attended a meeting of the Masonic Lodge? Have you ever been inside a Masonic building? Do you personally KNOW any Masons? (On that last one, I'd be willing to bet you do, but may not even know they ARE Masons.)

so , whether or not you agree with me i'm going to keep giving people my side of the story.

What IS YOUR side of the story? What have Masons EVER done to you? Perhaps asked you for a donation to the Childrens Hospital? Hmm?

let them make there own descision.

Yes. You've made yours. It's pretty obvious. I'm just sorry that you didn't get any of your information from actual dues-paying members. We're really not such a bad lot.

On a lighter note. I heard somewhere on the web that the REAL conspiracy is the Knights of Columbus. There is actually a super-secret FIFTH Degree that Third & Fourth Degree members are not told about. They hold the secrets to the Vatican, to the secret marriage of Mary, the sacred bloodline of the Christ, the Knights Templar treasure and the Colonel Sanders' seven herbs and spices.

(Sorry Chief_Counsellor. Didn't mean to "spill the beans" on you.



[edit on 12-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by Appak

Again, we agree. Otherwise it wouldn't be called a "theory"

so if you admit that no one can prove anything here then why are you here... and if you want to pose the same question to me i'll answer preemptively. i want people to know what i have observed even if i can't prove it.

Very true. However when you make claims based on what notorious Mason-haters and opportunists say, why should it be taken seriously?

i dont make claims based on anti-masonic websites. i agree with you. most of them are dumb and just call you guys satanists, with no evidence besides that you are into the occult. which i know does not constitute devil worship. i started a thread based on my personal experiences and that of a close freind, and ONLY that do i state as truth. ONLY those instances do i stand up for the claims. all else i admit to being a theory, but those are not theories, i feel they are true because that is what i believe. you have free will, again everyone should decide for themselves.

If I wanted to know what happened in my town's City Council meeting would I ask someone on the street or perhaps a Council member? or even the Mayor? See what I mean? (I'm not saying it's impossible that the Mayor would lie to me, but why would he if he had nothing to hide?)

exactly. if i'm right you do have things to hide. that's why nothing you say holds any clout with me.

Strange. You said the following and it SEEMS from the tone and the lack of question marks that you're stating it to be fact:

originally posted by hexrain1
Masons hold the knowledge of geomancy. ...Native Americans knew about leylines and there holy sites were located on these. When our forefathers came to this country (many being masons) they built masonic lodges on top of these sites. ... The masons now have that knowledge and are using it on humans.

who is taking who out of context? i say that the symbol i saw and the interpratation of how its being used is fact. people still don't have to believe a fact if they don't want to. i mean the president states that marraige is a sacred union, he states it as fact and uses it as an excuse to ban gay marraige. so then does everyone homosexual have to accept that "fact", because the president said so? no.

Sure was stated like you claimed it to be the "absolute truth" Just where did you obtain these "facts" anyway?

my PERSONAL experiences. the only way you have an argument here is if you were there with me to witness these things.

Yes. Anyone can be mistaken. But stating things like the above info as cold hard facts isn't going to get you anywhere if you indeed want to know.

i'm certainly not going to post after every message that i might be wrong. thats for people to decide, it goes without saying. i'm not going to be everyone's brain for them. make your own mind up about things i present. just know that i'm willing to take it back if anyone provides proof that i'm wrong. and since no one can as i've said prove anything here, i'm not going to apologize for presenting my side of things.

Certainly we can accept that. But again it begs the question. How is it that NON-MEMBERS can KNOW something about an organization if it's kept such a deep-dark secret from MEMBERS? See the fallacy in that thinking?

well i think that ALL people are in the dark about the illuminati which is fed by your organization. therefore it doesnt matter if you are a member or not, no one has the "FACTS" about them. and being related to that organization which i think you are being a mason, whether directly or indirectly, that oredisposes you to be more willing to lie. i understand though, your just "protecting" us from knowledge that apparently we dont deserve.

[edit on 12-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by hexrain1
so if you admit that no one can prove anything here then why are you here... and if you want to pose the same question to me i'll answer preemptively. i want people to know what i have observed even if i can't prove it.

Well, as a very active Mason, I guess that's why I am here. I want people (like yourself) to know what I have observed.

i started a thread based on my personal experiences and that of a close freind, and ONLY that do i state as truth.

Refresh my memory, what were YOUR PERSONAL experiences. I reiterate, WHAT HAVE MASONS DONE TO YOU?????

exactly. if i'm right you do have things to hide. that's why nothing you say holds any clout with me.

Like I said earlier. The Jury's in. You've closed your mind. You've decided what you believe and no amount of truth will sway you. Why then, do you respond to my posts if "nothing" I say has any clout with you?
The masons now have that knowledge and are using it on humans.

my PERSONAL experiences. the only way you have an argument here is if you were there with me to witness these things.

What things? You've said nothing about WHAT things. Why should such statements have any (as you would say) "clout" with me OR anyone else?

i'm not going to be everyone's brain for them.

I'm relieved. :p

make your own mind up about things i present.

I have. Hopefully everyone else will.

just know that i'm willing to take it back if anyone provides proof that i'm wrong. and since no one can as i've said prove anything here, i'm not going to apologize for presenting my side of things.

So we should just bandy words back and forth? No thanks.

well i think that ALL people are in the dark about the illuminati which is fed by your organization.

But why do you think that hexrain? What makes you believe that? Particularly in the light that most thinking people are aware that the Illuminati do not exist (except in the minds of some conspiracy theorists?)

therefore it doesnt matter if you are a member or not, no one has the "FACTS" about them.

I certainly have the "FACTS" about Freemasonry, else I wouldn't be a member. The Almighty has blessed me with a brain, with which to reason.

and being related to that organization which i think you are being a mason, whether directly or indirectly, that oredisposes you to be more willing to lie. i understand though, your just "protecting" us from knowledge that apparently we dont deserve.

I resent the hell out of being called a "liar" In fact I'm glad I'm not a Moderator or I'd give you a warning for that. But since I don't have any "clout" with you (lucky me, huh?) I guess I should expect it.

That being said, I'm finished with this silly nonsense (unless you verbally attack me again, anyway)

Have a nice time in your world.

TTFN

you know what the scariest part is, people actually think they are thinking outside of the box...
Aren't you both putting people in boxes right here and now, not all people who claim that they think masons are evil, hate masons.
Not all masons are evil.
Like i said, i've been trying to get this true heads here with 4 posts, but only one person seems to agree with me.

Now i want to make it clear, i am not a mason, i hadn't even heard of them untill about 3 weeks ago, so trying to cover something up isnt my goal here.
My goal is to establish relationships with some of the masonic members here.

(sorry, im from holland, the english isn't that good)

Ok, for the masons who read this, any of them, please, instead of telling us what you don't do, tell us what you do do.
The best way to disprove any clame made here is to actually say what is going on in there isn't it, I mean, you don't have to tell us what all the stuff is about, but you can say for exemple, we come togheter to discuss something of some religion or maybe somebodys birthday and then do a little dance or whatever.

Like when you hear people on the news, famous ones, about a party or something, we don't know what goes on in there, accept for there is a party with food and drinks and dancing, what more do we need, tell us something, enlighten us (bad choise of words maybe:S)

Also another question, what would you do if it turned out to be true, that some masons of the top are iluminati members and are trying to distroy and take over and stuff??
What would you do then?

For the rest, i understand why you would be on this forrum, intrested in anything, ufos, 9/11, whatever,you'll eventually end up here, what i don't understand is that some masons actually only post here if there is something going on about masons

I'm not that femilliar here, but sometimes i see names pup up everywhere in the secret society section but in others....nothing, absolutally nothing..
Then again i probably understand why you want to defend your club, same thing with football and here soccer, they actually fight here for it:S

Ahh well, please answer the question posted above, cause what i hope you'll say is that you fight them with all your might if somebody is trying to do what i said.
Then maybe somebody would stop thinking in boxes and start thinking the truth.
The absolute truth is: WE...DON'T....KNOW....SH#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does everybody understand this???
Do people really think they put it that bleeding obvious.
If a secret society really is bend on taking over the world, don't you think they might actually keep it a secret?
It's not like a james bond movie, they suddenly steal a bomb that everybody notices and then james bond is gonna save the world.
If this has been going on for senturies, they have done a verry good job of hiding it, offcourse all of you can put your findings forward, but i ask you to remind yourself that you are all people, and probably will all suffer if the time comes.

So please stop bashing at eachother, hear eachother out, bring arguments into the statements, so no more you say i'm dumb i never said it, that is OFF TOPIC, the topic is secret societies, please....keep it a little in the subject.

This tpoic could go on for ages, think about it, tink about what you actually KNOW, think about what other people say.....now think again what you actually know...
the possibility of anything being truth...is so so great...every single thought out there COULD be the truth, THIS is thinking outside the box, and if you think to hard it will probably eventually make you crazy.

The last thing i would like to say: see some movies, matrix, terminator, fortress, V for Vendetta....just couple of movies random, people who fought for there kind, HUMANKIND, do they bitch about this stuff, this is harsh reallity here, we are so busy fighting eachother, we don't see the big picture, try to help eachother, masons help us find truth

Originally posted by Patronas
you know what the scariest part is, people actually think they are thinking outside of the box...
Aren't you both putting people in boxes right here and now, not all people who claim that they think masons are evil, hate masons.
Not all masons are evil.
Like i said, i've been trying to get this true heads here with 4 posts, but only one person seems to agree with me.

Sorry If my post sounded a little harsh Patronas, its just that the masons on this board have been called everything from paedophiles to toilet arsonists by some of the mason haters who post here and after a while it just becomes too much - kinda like your football club example.

Now i want to make it clear, i am not a mason, i hadn't even heard of them untill about 3 weeks ago, so trying to cover something up isnt my goal here.
My goal is to establish relationships with some of the masonic members here.

(sorry, im from holland, the english isn't that good

)

The best way to establish a relationship with the masons here would be to simply ask questions. Who we are, why did we join, what has been our experiences with masonry, have we ever noticed anything strange etc.

And you english is fine btw =D

Ok, for the masons who read this, any of them, please, instead of telling us what you don't do, tell us what you do do.
The best way to disprove any clame made here is to actually say what is going on in there isn't it, I mean, you don't have to tell us what all the stuff is about, but you can say for exemple, we come togheter to discuss something of some religion or maybe somebodys birthday and then do a little dance or whatever.

Your kinda on the right track there, except that we dont ever speak about religion of any kind as politics and religion are two topics that are strictly forbidden as topics of conversation. Generally we get together, discuss the business of the club and the craft (ie. upcoming meetings, what charity drives we are doing, any new people joining etc) and then have a meal afterwards.

Also another question, what would you do if it turned out to be true, that some masons of the top are iluminati members and are trying to distroy and take over and stuff??
What would you do then?

I can guarantee you that a significant majority of masons would be appalled that there are those in the craft that are using it for mercenary gains. You are actually told when you join that you are NOT to join freemasonry with mercenary intent - ie. that you arent supposed to join the masons for financial / personal reward.

For the rest, i understand why you would be on this forrum, intrested in anything, ufos, 9/11, whatever,you'll eventually end up here, what i don't understand is that some masons actually only post here if there is something going on about masons

I think youll find its because like myself, a lot of masons enjoy reading about a numner of topics but have little or no knowledge to contribute to them. When a topic (masonry) comes up that we know something about - we like to contribute =D

I'm not that femilliar here, but sometimes i see names pup up everywhere in the secret society section but in others....nothing, absolutally nothing..
Then again i probably understand why you want to defend your club, same thing with football and here soccer, they actually fight here for it:S

Exaclty! Imagine if someone came on here saying "all [insert club name here] are satanic paedophiles who blew up my toilet". THe member of that club/fraternity would surely want to defend the honor of their club and their fellow clubmates.

The absolute truth is: WE...DON'T....KNOW....SH#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree with you! The problem is, a lot of people post ridiculous stories and claims here and argue them as gospel truth. If they presented the information in a way which was open for discussion and criticism, instead of "This is true because I said its true", they would get a much better response.

So please stop bashing at eachother, hear eachother out, bring arguments into the statements, so no more you say i'm dumb i never said it, that is OFF TOPIC, the topic is secret societies, please....keep it a little in the subject.

Again I totally agree with you! This is SECRET SOCIETY CONSPIRACY FORUM!! Unfortunately some people think it is a "LETS SLANDER FREEMASONS FORUM" and come out with some reallly ridiculous and outright rude comments.

The last thing i would like to say: see some movies, matrix, terminator, fortress, V for Vendetta....just couple of movies random, people who fought for there kind, HUMANKIND, do they bitch about this stuff, this is harsh reallity here, we are so busy fighting eachother, we don't see the big picture, try to help eachother, masons help us find truth

Im sure that every mason here would be quite happy to help you find the truth, so long as approach them with an open mind and show them the same respect that they will (should) show you. Let me start by offering to answer any questions you have, that I am able to either in this thread or in a personal message.

Look forward to hearing from you!! =D

well, ok
Let's start with ehm.
What do you discuss, when your in there?
Why is it secret?? i mean, i don't understand this...
then the questions you posted yourself, why who, where, what etc.
ehm then eh...do you think that there might be something inside your orgenisation that isn't quite as good as you(did that came out right...well you understand it)

What kind on conspiricys do you believe in, and what brought you to this site?
(please list them all, aliens, 9/11, bnush, illuminati, wichever you can think of)

Do you have some special rules or something by witch you need to live??

Originally posted by Patronas
well, ok Let's start with ehm.

Before we do I'll say a resounding to Ezekiels post. So many of the anti-Masonry posts come on with the attitude "Masons are evil. The have secret superiors and the rank-and-file members are too stupid to know it. But I know the truth (because I read it in a book or my friends neighbors ex-wife's lovers sons nephew TOLD me) That doesn't bode well for the verity of such a post. BTW, your English is far superior to many on this list who appear to have learned it as a primary language. I would imagine that Holland's school systems are superior to the typical U.S. public school. They would almost have to be.

What do you discuss, when your in there?

Typical meeting night. The members gather and chit-chat inside the hallway or the "ante-room" Meeting time draws closer and the members and guests sign the attendance book, then put on a Masonic apron

www.jpluther.com...

(the apron is symbolic and must be worn while the Lodge is conducting business)

the Lodge is called to order and it is ascertained if everyone present is a qualified member. If so the meeting is opened with ceremony (in the U.S.A. this includes the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and a prayer along with a recitation of the various duties of each officer. For example the Treasurer, when asked by the President (called the Master) what his duties are, responds to this effect:

"To receive all moneys from the hand of the Secretary; to keep just and regular
accounts of the same and to pay them out upon the order of the Lodge attested by the Master and Secretary."

Next the minutes of the previous meeting are read and either approved or corrected as the case may be and a regular business meeting (like any club or organization would have) follows. Bills (such as utilities, food expenses, mortgage payments) are presented and ordered to be paid. Motions are made to change certain by-laws or to have a charity picnic or the like. Announcements of upcoming events and meetings of neighboring Lodges are made. "Good of the Order" is an opportunity to stand up and present any information you deem interesting to those present. It's really not that exciting at all. No world-domination discussed, or treason committed. I often tell the person next to me to wake me up if something actually happens. If there is a candidate to be initiated, the ceremony of initiation is conducted. It's an impressive and dignified ceremony (for those who are genuinely interested in the organization). Certainly there have been some who walked away saying "Hm. That was silly" And we never see those folks again.

Why is it secret?? i mean, i don't understand this...

A secret shared between two people binds them together, so the secrets of Masonry binds the Fraternity together. Secrecy doesn't make something "evil" but it certainly IS a big issue with anti-Masons. If our ceremonies were open to all they would become commonplace and hence not worth much. Humans are naturally curious and the "secret aspect" of Masonry is appealing to some. When the degrees are taken with the salt of curiosity and expectation, they are the more readily perceived.

do you think that there might be something inside your orgenisation that isn't quite as good as you(did that came out right...well you understand it

)

Certainly there are members who shouldn't be Masons. Some have come out of idle curiousity, some for personal gain or presumed status. That's a shame, but it cannot be helped, because we are all human (despite what David Icke said about us)

What kind on conspiricys do you believe in, and what brought you to this site?

A young friend of mine from my "adopted" home Lodge told me about the site and I searched for it one night while in my hotel room. As far as conspiracies, I believe in several, but not that Masonry has secret "higher-ups" who are involved in the NWO. It's simply foolish to believe this. As I've stated before. We can't get our own members to come to meetings, we certainly couldn't take over the world.

Do you have some special rules or something by witch you need to live??

Absolutely. Part of the "Charge" to a newly initiated Brother says the following:

There are three great duties, which, as a Mason, you are charged to inculcate—to God, you neighbor and yourself. To God, in never mentioning His name, but with that reverential awe which is due from a creature to his Creator; to implore his aid in all your laudable undertakings, and to esteem him as the chief good. To your neighbor, in doing unto him as you wish he should do unto you. And to yourself, in avoiding all irregularity and intemperance, which may impair your faculties and debase the dignity of your profession. A zealous attachment to these duties will insure public and private esteem.
In the state, you are to be a quiet and peaceful citizen, true to your government and just to your country. You are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the country in which you live. In your outward demeanor, be particularly careful to avoid censure or reproach.

(that last part would make it difficult to justify us being paedophiles and murders, as those sorts of thing are illegal)

Another portion of the ceremony (the Closing "Charge") says: Brethren, you are now about to quit this retreat of friendship and virtue, to mix again with the world. Amidst its concerns and employments, forget not the duties you have heard so frequently inculcated and forcibly recommended in this Lodge. Be diligent, prudent, temperate, discreet. Remember that, you have promised to befriend and relieve every brother who shall need your assistance; you have promised to remind him, in the most tender manner, of his failings, and aid in his reformation. Vindicate his character, when wrongfully traduced. Suggest, in his behalf, the most candid and favorable circumstances. Is he justly reprehended? Let the world observe how Masons love one another.
These generous principles are to extend further. Every human being has claim upon your kind offices. Do good unto all.

just because a mason gives me an answer refuting claims that i make doesnt make it true. just like when i write about the horrors your organization commits, doesnt make it true.

There is just so much on this particular thread I would like to address. This statement, however, seems to be the basic gist of what is being argued. I would propose an answer to your little problem here, hexrain. Do not come here laying a foundation of claims based on nothing. Back it up. I cannot speak for every member here, but rarely will you find a post made by me, arguing a point, that is not backed up by referencable facts. Now understand, I don't say "facts" as just a randomly pulled word. I say it to mean exactly that. I pull my knowledge from widely accepted and reputable sources. Granted, this does not make anything indesputable, but rather incorporates and lends to a better organization of my points and backs up my claims with others who have noticed similar trends through tangible evidence. This alone is my point. No one is denying your right to "expose" the Masons. All I, personally, would ask is that you go about it with a little class, and occassionally throw in a fact or two.
There is a member here, notorious for Mason-bashing, whom I won't name out of reasons for avoiding unnecessary slander. This member, however, absolutely loves to quote Pike. Always completely out of context, granted, but at least he is making an effort to back up any claims; regardless how weak they may be. I would only ask the same of you. On another thread you made some fairly interesting claims about Geomancy, asserting repeatedly that you must be right because no one has come to you and asked about them. I have addressed those claims, and oddly have yet to see a response to what I have posted. Again, I will argue many points, often playing devil's advocate just to attain a level of better understanding, but never will I argue on passion alone. It is a foul and bitter fuel, which often burns itself out too quickly without support.

Well, our country is like a wanna-be america, we had that discussion in a post on a dutch site like this, probably why we speak it so wonderfully well

But, if i am reading and understanding you correctly the treasury of the masons have money from all masons??
So you got to go to them for money? or do you have some yourself?? how does this work??
What is an addopted home lodge???

In the state, you are to be a quiet and peaceful citizen, true to your government and just to your country.

To what extent?? i mean, do you still back bush??
This kinda sounds like you HAVE TO obey everything you are told or else..or am i getting this wrong, cause you have to rebel sometimes, there wasn't a independence day for nothing...don't understand this.

In all other sences your claims seem perfectly plosible, i understand all of it.
maybe some other questions come to mind

Anybody else want to ask something? or is it not interesting anymore?

Originally posted by Patronas
But, if i am reading and understanding you correctly the treasury of the masons have money from all masons??
So you got to go to them for money? or do you have some yourself?? how does this work??

I'm sorry. You're misunderstanding me. The Lodge has several Officers, like any organization typically does (President, Secretary, etc.) One is the Treasurer. He is in charge of the money owned by the Lodge. Members pay annual dues (usually from $20 - $50, the Lodge has fund-raisers from time to time, etc.) These funds are used to pay the rent (or mortgage) utility bills, give to charity, create scholarships and so forth. The treasurer is the "keeper of the check-book" so to speak. If the Lodge wants to spend money on something (other than regular bills), it's usually voted on by the membership, and the Treasurer is directed to write a check for it.

What is an addopted home lodge???

That's just the Lodge I attend when I'm staying here (I don't live where I'm working right now, but I am here a lot so I attend the local Lodge meetings) I'm not a dues-paying member of this local Lodge, but because my dues at my "home" Lodge are current, I can attend where ever I go.

To what extent?? i mean, do you still back bush??

It just means we can't commit treason or deliberately break laws. Whether or not a Mason likes Bush is up the individual. The Lodge has nothing to say about that.

This kinda sounds like you HAVE TO obey everything you are told or else..or am i getting this wrong, cause you have to rebel sometimes, there wasn't a independence day for nothing...don't understand this.

Again, it means no deliberate law-breaking. As Americans we have the Constitutional right to do a lot of things, but if for instance the state law says no gambling and we were running an underground casino, we're deliberately breaking the law. There are legal ways of standing up agains unfair laws (granted it's not as easy any more)

In all other sences your claims seem perfectly plosible, i understand all of it.
maybe some other questions come to mind

I'm happy to answer any question that comes to mind. If I don't know the answer, I'll try to find out for you.

the offer to post PROOF of anything on any of these threads is still open. you guys can't prove any of the information you post to explain away all the mystery around your rituals, all the secrets you guys have been keeping, passed down from hiram. that's got to be pretty interesting, but you haven't showed me anything that shows me that you guys have any true knowledge. all i see here is a personal attack on every thread where you guys divert people's attention from the subject. and you've gotten real good at what you guys do. i love how they say to know one ask one. it amazes me the contrived responses you've been fed to answer all of these questions. but then again, you've had a lot of practice... i almost wonder if that's all you guys really do in the lodge, is learn how to answer questions without answering questions... you keep asking for proof where it can't be found. if anyone could prove any of this we wouldn't be here. obviously you guys are proving to anyone that your not up to something, because people still frequent these forums just to hear what people have to say. it becomes evident to any person at some point, and i've only been comming here for a week, that no one proves things here. that's why this forum even exists. until aliens populate the earth or something, no one will be able to PROVE their existance. they can post a million pictures of UFO's and until A LOT of people at one time experience aliens, no one is going to believe 100%. so don't feed me that referenced link crap, i have freedom of speech.

i refuse to be silenced. oh and if you want to go back to my old thread, appak, which you also derailed and brought off-topic, you will see my personal experiences that i gave. i know you say it's heresay but all the things you post are as well.

from now on i'm only addressing people who don't launch a personal attack on me. you guys can talk your ear off but i'm not participating in this childish game of quote me trying to defend myself and get off-topic thing. tell people what you think you know, i'll do the same, simple as that, but no more bickering.

(I just know your still going to quote me a bunch and label me an anti-mason, that's fine. i know you can't resist.)