Is The UN Resolution Worth The Paper Its Written On?

WOW,
We don't harbor some deep seated prejudice now do we?

You need to get that checked man before it does real damage....

And no, I have found currently 12 countries that specifically list Hezbollah as a terroist organization. Here is the game, see if you can find them, or keep living with your head in the sand. Either way, you have displayed your inability to discuss anything with an open mind so any further discourse with you would only lead to continued disillusion. I don't want to be a party to any further damage that may occur to you.

Sinn Fein... ... You are a real hoot man!!!

Made my night

Well enough of this. no matter how entertaining, I do have to sleep.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
WOW,
We don't harbor some deep seated prejudice now do we?

You need to get that checked man before it does real damage....

If thats the best you can do, then so be it. Resorting the claims of prejudice and whatnot to avoid the argument.

Originally posted by semperfortis
And no, I have found currently 12 countries that specifically list Hezbollah as a terroist organization. Here is the game, see if you can find them, or keep living with your head in the sand. Either way, you have displayed your inability to discuss anything with an open mind so any further discourse with you would only lead to continued disillusion. I don't want to be a party to any further damage that may occur to you.

12? What are these, pray tell. I stand corrected and I have found 4, rather than 3, that list them as terrorist, which are the US, Canada, Israel and the Netherlands.

On a side note, you do know that Hezbollah denounced the WTC attacks and many other attacks on innocent civilians? They are not Islamic extremists akin to OBL, they are for womens rights and are fairly liberal compared to alot of Islamists. But, you accuse me of not being open minded when you skirt the issue completely by attacking my character, instead of the issue. You'll make a good politician

Originally posted by semperfortis
Sinn Fein...

... You are a real hoot man!!!

Made my night

Well enough of this. no matter how entertaining, I do have to sleep.

Semper

And what is so funny about those REAL terrorists killing 3000 British soldiers and civilians? I am glad you find it so funny. I'll remember to laugh heartily next time you get attacked seeing as you seem to think it is an amusing subject to laugh about.

I actually lived in NI during the troubles and let me tell you this, it was not funny in the slightest. Living in a base that was akin to a Medieval fortress, kids being escorted to school by Armed soldiers, carrying a side arm just to go and pick up a paper, checking your car every time you use it to see if some idiot has strapped an explosive device to kill you and your family.

It wasn't just a few car bombs here and there, it was REAL terrorism where you could be killed at any moment.

Try it, before you laugh about it. I find it highly offensive that in one hand you slam a legitimate resistance movement for defending their country and claim to stand by your Allies, but on the other laugh at the suffering caused by terrorists that you guys supported against your longest standing and best ally.

Your sick and I have nothing more to say to you.

Sinn Fein is the oldest political movement in Ireland. It takes its name from the Irish Gaelic expression for ``We Ourselves''. Since being founded in 1905, Irish Republicans have worked for the right of Irish people as a whole to attain national self-determination.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Sinn Fein seeks the establishment of a new Ireland based on sustainable social and economic development; genuine democracy, participation, equality and justice at all levels of the economy and society; and a lasting and meaningful peace with unity of purpose and action.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The task of building an Ireland of equals is a huge and exciting challenge for all of us. Use this site, engage with the party and join with us on the road to Irish unity and independence."Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams MP
~~~~~~~~~~~www.sinnfein.ie...sinnfein.org...

Perhaps the IRA can truly be compared to Hezbollah, but certainly not Sinn Fein. To the best of my knowledge, they never at anytime called for the complete eradication of a country. They never issued any edicts directed to wipe an entire people off the face of the planet. They just wanted autonomy.

However:

Reagan administration officials said that the attack was carried out by Hezbollah operatives, a Lebanese militant Islamic group whose anti-U.S. sentiments were sparked in part by the revolution in Iran. The Hezbollah operatives who carried out the attack on the embassy reportedly were receiving financial and logistical support from both Iran and Syria. [For more on how and why Iran and Syria were helping to direct attacks on the U.S., see FRONTLINE's interviews with Robert Oakley and Robert C. McFarlane.]
~~~~~~~~
In Aukar, northeast of Beirut, a truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. Embassy annex killing 24 people, two of whom were U.S. military personnel. According to the U.S. State Department's 1999 report on terrorist organizations, elements of Hezbollah are "known or suspected to have been involved" in the bombing.
~~~~~~~~~~~
ran arrested the hijackers, saying they would be brought to trail. But the trial never took place, and the hijackers were allowed to leave the country. There was no U.S. military response. The State Department announced a $250,000 reward for information leading to the arrests of those involved in the hijacking. Later press reports linked Hezbollah's Imad Mughniyah to the hijackings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.pbs.org...


A British Muslim activist has called on his supporters to help the Iranian-backed terror group Hezbollah overthrow the Israeli Government.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In July 1994 the Israeli Embassy in London was car-bombed by two Palestinians linked to Hezbollah. Fourteen people were injured.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tory Homeland Security spokesman Patrick Mercer said: "There is little doubt that we are in danger from Hezbollah. I trust that the Government are more alive to this threat than they have been to other Islamist fundamentalist threats."
www.dailymail.co.uk...


Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
une 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
www.infoplease.com...

It's funny how all of these acts of terror are being committed by the NON-Terrorist organization of Hezbollah. You would think that eventually if it acts, walks and talks like a duck, someone would call it a duck.


That is the terrible truth of the insidious nature of a terror organization that has supporters such as has been indicated on here. Entire countries are afraid of reprisals, and only the few are brave enough to stand against this plague on the world.

Regardless of what you label them, they are defined by their actions. They are cowards of the highest degree, deserving of nothing more than the terror they cause world wide.

Unlike true fighting men, they do not stand and face their enemy, they cower behind civilians, lurk in civilian clothing and strike at civilian targets as their main goal. They kidnap, torture and routinely kill women and children. All in the name of their great and mighty Allah, because someone forgot to wear their Burka or kneel at evening prayers.

No, please don't feign indignation when you can defend cowards of such ilk without hesitation. These are the truest most vile infestation this planet has seen and I hope and pray that Israel eradicates them.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis

Perhaps the IRA can truly be compared to Hezbollah, but certainly not Sinn Fein. To the best of my knowledge, they never at anytime called for the complete eradication of a country. They never issued any edicts directed to wipe an entire people off the face of the planet. They just wanted autonomy.

Oh give over. Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA and everyone knows it, except you of course. They didn't want autonomy, they wanted NI to be united with Eire, thats not autonomy. Going to their website for info about them is hardly looking at WHO they are, is it? Gerry Adams maintains to this day, his goal is a united Ireland. How come we have to go through Sinn Fein to speak to the IRA? They are one and the same. Martin McGuiness used to be an IRA commander for crying out loud!

Defending the IRA whilst slamming Hezbollah. Your a coward and a hypocrite.

It's funny how all of these acts of terror are being committed by the NON-Terrorist organization of Hezbollah. You would think that eventually if it acts, walks and talks like a duck, someone would call it a duck.

It's funny how Hezbollah have not been successfully linked to any attack, only accused by the US, which has always been denied by them. Don't terrorists usually claim responsibility for their attacks? I thought they did....

Islamic Jihad has also been suspected in involvement with alot of the same attacks and there is far stronger evidence to suggest it was them, especially seeing as they claimed many of them as their own. Might want to research the topic before cherry picking some crap from a website.

That is the terrible truth of the insidious nature of a terror organization that has supporters such as has been indicated on here. Entire countries are afraid of reprisals, and only the few are brave enough to stand against this plague on the world.

What? Who, apart from Israel, is afraid of Hezbollah. Hezbollah don't want to attack the west. They don't even want the destruction of Israel. They goal is the Liberation of Lebanon. That is their stated aim. Unlike Hamas or AQ, who ARE a terrorist org. They're not one and the same.

Regardless of what you label them, they are defined by their actions. They are cowards of the highest degree, deserving of nothing more than the terror they cause world wide.

Their action speak of nothing apart from a drive to liberate occupied territories, which even the UN has ordered Israel to leave, check out resolution 242. Unananimous
15-0 passing, yet ignored by the Israelis.

Unlike true fighting men, they do not stand and face their enemy, they cower behind civilians, lurk in civilian clothing and strike at civilian targets as their main goal. They kidnap, torture and routinely kill women and children. All in the name of their great and mighty Allah, because someone forgot to wear their Burka or kneel at evening prayers.

Give over you fool. Hezbollah have stood and fought the IDF for the past 5 weeks. Only yesterday, 17 soldiers were killed and 70 wounded fighting Hezbollah. God knows what channels you watch. You may claim otherwise, but the situation on the ground says they are not cowards. Even the IDF has a new found respect for their enemy.

No, please don't feign indignation when you can defend cowards of such ilk without hesitation. These are the truest most vile infestation this planet has seen and I hope and pray that Israel eradicates them.

I am not feigning anything. You wilful ignorance of Sinn feins atrocities whilst condeming Hezbollah shows you are a hypocrite. You seem to be under the idea that Hezbollah are some Pan-Global terrorist org. Their charter says otherwise. they have no interest in anywhere else apart from lebanon.

Their rocket attacks are worth condemnation, I would presonally point my Katushyas at IDF positions, but the casualty figures speak for themselves. Most Israeli (90 odd-percent) casualties have been military, where as the vast majority of Lebanons have been women and children. Apart from the rocket attacks against cities (which can be understood from an economic target POV, by the way), I cannot condemn Hezbollah for defending their country.

The IDF tactics are grossly disproportionate and, regardless what FOX tells you, the rocket attacks did not begin until IDF Aircraft started their bombing campaign.

And you slam me for defending cowards? You are pathetic.



[edit on 13/8/06 by stumason]

And here I thought you were done with me...

You still care enough to violate the T&C by calling me names. I'm touched, yet not offended really. It is nothing I would not expect.

I on the other hand will not resort to name calling. Never could grasp anyone's desire to call someone a name. I'll have to ponder that one.

Meanwhile, I'll get back on topic and let you rant on and insult me some more.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
And here I thought you were done with me...

You still care enough to violate the T&C by calling me names. I'm touched, yet not offended really. It is nothing I would not expect.

I on the other hand will not resort to name calling. Never could grasp anyone's desire to call someone a name. I'll have to ponder that one.

Meanwhile, I'll get back on topic and let you rant on and insult me some more.

Semper

Hah, very clever. More misdirection where you cannot address the points raised. I was done with you, but I cannot allow what you said to slide. Your hypocrasy was plain to see, so I called you on it, as far as I am aware, calling someone a hypocrite when there is balatnt hypocrasy in your post does not contravene the T&C's, but nice attempt at a spin there. If you find it offensive, then so be it, I must have hit a nerve.

Well done Stu.

I admire your perseverence in the face of arrogant stupidity.

Many Americans seem to have a rosy view of PIRA and have no shame in having funded bombs that killed children and yet view all 'brown' people who take up arms as 'evil terrorists' - whatever their motivation or the justness of their cause.

Couldn't be a racial thing could it?

Not offensive my man!!!

Fun actually. This is what makes ATS. People with no self control that justify the subjugation of a country then complain when that country trys to break free. Then attempts to compare those freedom fighters with real terrorists.

And now you have a "buddy" that comes in playing the race card. This gets better and better. Greatly lacking in intellectual stimulation, but fun no less.

And actually you called me a Coward, a Hypocrite and Pathetic. Just to correct you and make sure your buddy knows those aspersions have been used.

Semper

Anyway getting back on track. Personally I will be very suprised if this cease fire (due to start Monday 0500 GMT) makes it till Tuesday. I think you will all agree the UN's authority in the area is hardly worth talking about and lets face it Israel hardly has a good track record complying with resolutions. But fingers crossed it does work out!

Originally posted by semperfortis
Not offensive my man!!!

Fun actually. This is what makes ATS. People with no self control that justify the subjugation of a country then complain when that country trys to break free. Then attempts to compare those freedom fighters with real terrorists.

And now you have a "buddy" that comes in playing the race card. This gets better and better. Greatly lacking in intellectual stimulation, but fun no less.

And actually you called me a Coward, a Hypocrite and Pathetic. Just to correct you and make sure your buddy knows those aspersions have been used.

Semper

Indeed, a good debate always makes the work day go by..

But, when did I justify the subjegation of a country? And, for the record, NI did not try and break free, some elements of the catholic minority attempted to force the issue, but if the issue went to referendum, NI would remain a part of the UK.

Anyhoo..what was the intitial disagreement.. yes, Hezbollah: Terrorists or not?

Hmm...

Not. Only ever carried out a handful of suicide bombings against IDF targets. They were accused by the USA of the Marine barracks attack, the French barracks attack amongst others in 1982-1983, but Hezbollah were not formed until 1985! Explain that.

As i said, these attacks, as in generally agreed in many international circles, were carried out by Islamic Jihad, a palestinian group.

Although, I do not agree with indiscriminate shelling of population centres, it's hardly one sided on that fact and is the only tactic that hezbollah use that is reprehensable. They are not cowards, they stand and fight the IDF in southern Lebanon. For all intents and purposes, these guys are Geurilla's.

They publicly state that civilian casualties are not to be applauded, they even stood against the guys that attacked you on 9/11. And, as demonstrated earlier, the vast majority of Israeli casualties have been military, where as the reverese is not true.

Prove me wrong. You accuse me of being narrow minded, but at least I have done my homework and don't cherry pick examples from biased (CFR, Iranian dissidents etc...) websites to support my position.

I'm half expecting a World Net Daily article next

Here's the last one.

You can see how much good it did.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 was a resolution adopted by the United Nations Security Council on September 2, 2004. It called upon Lebanon to establish its sovereignty over all of its land and called upon Syria to end its military presence in Lebanon by withdrawing its forces and to cease intervening in internal Lebanese politics. The resolution also called on all Lebanese militias to disband.en.wikipedia.org...

I don't expect this one to fair much better.

Semper

Originally posted by Strangerous
Couldn't be a racial thing could it?

I can't see how that would be possible. He's researched Islam and Quranic verses at reputable sites such as freerepublic.com and blessedcause.com so I think he's pretty much up to date on Muslims/Islam.I think its plain for all to see that anyone going to those sites will find a wealth of information on Islam there and anyone doing research at either of those 2 sites is obviously serious about what they are reading.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Here's the last one.

You can see how much good it did.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 was a resolution adopted by the United Nations Security Council on September 2, 2004. It called upon Lebanon to establish its sovereignty over all of its land and called upon Syria to end its military presence in Lebanon by withdrawing its forces and to cease intervening in internal Lebanese politics. The resolution also called on all Lebanese militias to disband.en.wikipedia.org...

I don't expect this one to fair much better.

Semper

Me neither. It's a bit of a stalemate in South Lebanon. Israel won't leave until Hezbollah are either disarmed or stop attacking and Hezbollah won't stop attacking if Israel doesn't leave.

It would be nice if Israel actually obeyed resolution 242 though. That would remove any reason for Hezbollah to exist and probably end most of the other troubles too.

AH the Pieman makes his ever present little comment. I was wondering where you were.

As for Hezbollah

Scholars differ as to when Hezbollah came to be a distinct entity. Some organizations list the official formation of the group as early as 1982 [1] whereas Diaz and Newman maintain that Hezbollah remained an amalgamation of various violent Shi’a extremists until as late as 1985 [2]. Regardless of when the name came into official use, a number of Shi’a groups were slowly assimilated into the organization, such as Islamic Jihad, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth and the Revolutionary Justice Organization [citation needed]. These designations are considered to be synonymous with Hezbollah by the US,[3] Israel[4] and Canada[5]

en.wikipedia.org...

or

The history of Hezbollah begins with the 1982 occupation of Beirut and southern Lebanon by Israel. Israel had re-invaded the country in an effort to control members of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) who had settled there and were carrying out attacks on Israel. In response Shi'ite Muslims with the assistance of Iranian Revolutionary Guards formed Hezbollah to combat the Israeli presence, and ultimately to assist the Palestinians in their fight for statehood.

www.military.com...

Again, I post links, though you dispute them of course. but with what? Your opinions. I value opinions on here as much as the other person, but you could at least read the links I supply. Anti-semitism rules allow you to do that don't they?

The hate for Israel is wide spread and expected, both by her supporters and her citizens. It is just more prevalent on here with the left in full swing.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Here's the last one.

You can see how much good it did.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 was a resolution adopted by the United Nations Security Council on September 2, 2004. It called upon Lebanon to establish its sovereignty over all of its land and called upon Syria to end its military presence in Lebanon by withdrawing its forces and to cease intervening in internal Lebanese politics. The resolution also called on all Lebanese militias to disband.en.wikipedia.org...

I don't expect this one to fair much better.

Semper

Too bad with all your supposed military knowledge , that you are discounting the fact that Israel crossed the border like 10000 times with drones, boats and fighter jets before and after that resolution. Obviously if that was America and you were our defense we'd be pretty much defenseless right now if it was up to you. You'd have us lay down our arms while the enemy repeatedly flew recon flights over our border and kept kidnapping people to boot.

Originally posted by semperfortis
The hate for Israel is wide spread and expected, both by her supporters and her citizens. It is just more prevalent on here with the left in full swing.

Semper

You post messages about Muslims teaching their kids how to blow themselves up and how in paranoid nightmares you fear Muslim extremists are going to be beheading Americans and you tell me I'm anti-semetic? LOL
I fear for America with people of your mindset around. You being the man that you are would probably be questioning some innocent little 8 year old muslim while some Israeli "Art Student" stands behind you going through your file cabinet telling you the kid has a bomb.

Anti-semitism rules allow you to do that don't they?

The hate for Israel is wide spread and expected, both by her supporters and her citizens. It is just more prevalent on here with the left in full swing.

I was waiting for that, only a matter of time before that card was played. Let me say this once more (I have lost count of how many times I have to say this), criticism of Israel does not equte to Anti-Semitism.

And, I hope your aware, being a Semite does not mean you are Jewish. The Palestinians are Semitic, you know.

Same with many peoples in that area. Of course, 75% of modern Jews are not even Semitic, as they are descended from Eastern European converts, so not entirely sure what your alluding to there, apart from trying to slander me.

Hey, just because I don't always post links, does not mean I have not read up on it. I am ware of that Wiki article, but itself says that Scholars disagree with the founding date, so it can hardly be used as concrete evidence of Hezbollah being an entity prior to 1985, which is their official founding.

And, in that very same Wiki article, it says Islamic Jihad is prime suspect to the bombings, not Hezbollah. There are claims the two are linked, mind you, but nothing concrete and usually coming out of the US.

Your second article does not even give a date. It says the History begins in 1982 with the Israeli invasion. It is important to read what an article actually says, you know.

Now, using that same language, I could argue that the History of the United states begins in 1492..or maybe the Pilgrims? Or is it the revolution? A matter of conjecture.

The fact is, Hezbollah was officially created in 1985.

But, I feel that we have derailed this thread long enough. If you wish to continue the debate over Hezbollah, then join this thread. Much better suited to our little disagrement, I think you'll find.

The UN is the world’s best hope. If we did not have it today, we’d have to invent it.

REPLY: The U.N. is the most corrupt world organization, and is second in failures only to the League Of Nations, it's predecessor.

85% of the members are tyrants and thugs posing as statesmen and diplomats, with Mr. Coffee Inane, as it's titular head

Annan himself has a long history of one-sided condemnations of Israel. In March 2004, Annan "strongly condemned" Israel's targeted killing of Sheik Ahmad Yassin, the terrorist leader of Hamas, without condemning Yassin for his murderous actions or his organization for the murder of Jewish civilians. In December 2003, Annan "strongly condemned" Israel's assault on a Palestinian refugee camp where two gunmen were thought to be hiding. And in 2005, he issued the most tepid of statements--expressing "dismay"--at threats by Iran's president to "eliminate" Israel, a member nation of the UN. The list goes on and on.

But Annan heads an organization that is so anti-Israel that as the late Abba Eban, the early Israeli ambassador to the UN, once put it: "If Algeria proposed a resolution that the Earth was flat and that Israel has flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 120 to 3, with 27 abstentions."

The UN peacekeepers on the Lebanese border have turned out to be collaborators with Hezbollah, videotaping the Hezbollah kidnapping of three Israeli soldiers in 2000 and then refusing to release the video--which could have helped in the rescue--on the grounds that it might compromise their "neutrality."

Like many of the U.N. ideas, this cease-fire will ultimately fail.

The U.N., and it's sister organization, UNESCO, is exactly the NWO people are so afraid of, and for good reason.

With countries like Israel totally disregarding Resolutions and with The USA intentionally blocking many on her behalf with over 30 of those being vetoed , no one in their right mind would or should pay attention.

REPLY: Hmmmmm ....... you seen to forget that most everything Hezbubble has done / is doing is against every resolution the U.N. has placed against it.... kind of shows a one sided view, does it not?

many call them freedom fighters. the way they see it, israel is occupying their land.

REPLY: You mean, just like the "Palestinians" are occupying Isreals lands?? If firefighters fight fires, and crimefighters fight crime, then "freedomfighters" are doing what?

Originally posted by zappafan1
You mean, just like the "Palestinians" are occupying Isreals lands??

You have a very strange view of right/wrong & history my friend.

In what way are the Palestinians occupying Israel's land?

Oh and a question for you - how is the UN on the one hand 'useless and corrupt' and yet when the US needs some justification for its illegal invasions it becomes important again.

Perhaps if the US accepted the reality that the United Nations represents a range of views and supported all its resolutions (rather than just the ones it finds fitting to its aims and objectives) the UN would have more 'clout'

OH YEAH,

The UN is really a class act. I mean any organization that would do this:

Another United Nations Sham: Libyan leader Colonel Gadaffi to Head the U.N. Human Rights Commission
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's right -- Libya. One of the world's worst abusers of human rights will head what is supposed to be the world's most prestigious international forum for promoting those rights.
Ruled by the notorious dictator Muammar Qadhafi, Libya has long supported international terrorism. The U.S. State Department lists it as a state sponsor of terrorism. For years, it harbored the two individuals responsible for bombing Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, and it still refuses to accept responsibility or pay compensation. Worse, says Under Secretary of State John Bolton, Libya is trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction.

Oh Yeah, real class.

Biggest bunch of useless morons on the planet.

Semper