Does today's failed terror plot change your mind regarding 9/11?

I'm reserving judgement on who's behind this plot for now. But how is it that you're so sure there wasn't a real plot coordinated by a terrorist group like say Al Queda? Don't you think we need a little more info first?

Imho it doesn't really matter if it was real or not, they are milking it and boasting about it as much as they can.

They could've well let the attack happen and go "see we told ya so!"

Now, it seems the UK wouldn't stand for a bucketload of their own civilians being sacrificed.
And considering Heatrow is the central hub for passengers from all over Europe that are going to the US, if anything happend to multiple of these plains, resulting in many people dying from many European country's, the european country's would, each and every one of them, push to investigate this to the absolute fullest.

If they found that Bush, Blair or anyone elses cronies were hindering the investigation or stealing evidence like they did on 9/11 or had the slightest idea that this was going to happen, they'd look even harder to find the truth and get pissed realtime.

The US and UK might generaly act like they own the EU and don't need them but the EU needs them, economicly they depend as much on Europe as Europe does on them.

Originally posted by thematrix
Imho it doesn't really matter if it was real or not, they are milking it and boasting about it as much as they can.

Yes, but that's quite a bit different than saying the government is orchestrating these events.

And considering Heatrow is the central hub for passengers from all over Europe that are going to the US, if anything happend to multiple of these plains, resulting in many people dying from many European country's, the european country's would, each and every one of them, push to investigate this to the absolute fullest.

More reason for me to ask then why would the government orchestrate these events? Why would they attempt a 9/11 or today's level of deceit when there's the chance they could be outed and possibly overthrown? Maybe today they simply did their job and foiled the bad guys plans. Maybe bad guys simply did catch us offguard on 9/11 and are continuing to attempt to take chunks out of our armor.

(FYI - I do tend to take sides with the 9/11 comspiracy theorists... I'm just having a devil's advocate type of day. Helps me reaffirm my position you know?)

Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by undecided2
The "illegal War on Terror?" What does that even mean.

According to the US constitution the congress has the power to declare war and the president has the power to wage war. The president cannot legally wage war in the absence of a declaration of war from Congress. Congress has not declared war, thus the war on terror is illegal.

I am tired of hearing people defend these fascists who want to kill me for no reason!

Im tired of my rights being eroded because a bunch of "chicken littles" think the sky is falling.

[edit on 10-8-2006 by df1]

Oh my...... time for a firmware update on this one....

The war on terror is not a war being waged by military forces - rather by the world as a whole. Just like the war on drugs - it's not the MILITARY - it's YOU. We're all in this together, whether you like it or not. Dead weight is going to sink to the bottom - and sooner or later no one is going to have time or patients to pull you along.

The war on terror is an ideology - not an actual war. And Congress HAS authorized every military deployment that extended beyond the time or strength limit of the president's crisis response power. So, no, it's not illegal.

I enjoy the terminal ideology the gang-bang has adapted around here.

It goes a little something like this: The Government is lying to you. We know what they don't want you to know. They want to take away your rights and do so by making you fear them with lies and plots of horrific events.

..... yet it's a self-defeating ideology. Your very message is what you accuse the other side of doing. Yet - if I say that you are trying to employ the same tactic (assuming it is a 'tactic' for the accused side) - then all you have to do to discredit me in your own minds is say I'm also trying to fear monguer you into an ideology.

I'm not sure if it's genius, stupidity, ignorance, or genuine evil. Probably a combination of all of the above for different people.

I don't know if its any of those. It's a difficult and confusing time right now... since 9/11. I feel the govenement can't be trusted and it's difficult to know who, if anyone, is on your side. I think people, with the advent of the internet, have been given new alternatives to where they get their news and how they form their opinions. I think people are honestly trying to wade through those muddy waters and decern for themselves what's true and what's not. I know at least I am. And today is one of those confusing days for me. Right now I feel pissed at Al Qeada (same as I did on 9/11) and want to get them all. Tomorrow I might come on here and find a thread that produces documents that show GWB personally wrote Osama ordering him to start the bomb plot and my opinion will change. That's why its so difficult to decipher truth from lies and who is or isn't on your side.

I will say this though, I no longer just listen to the mainstream and accept it without further research.

[edit on 10-8-2006 by mecheng]

Originally posted by Aim64C
The war on terror is an ideology - not an actual war. And Congress HAS authorized every military deployment that extended beyond the time or strength limit of the president's crisis response power. So, no, it's not illegal...

all you have to do to discredit me in your own minds is say I'm also trying to fear monguer you into an ideology.

Congratulations, you are qualified to run for congress as you havent read the US constitution either. I suggest that you read it.

Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by Aim64C
The war on terror is an ideology - not an actual war. And Congress HAS authorized every military deployment that extended beyond the time or strength limit of the president's crisis response power. So, no, it's not illegal...

all you have to do to discredit me in your own minds is say I'm also trying to fear monguer you into an ideology.

Congratulations, you are qualified to run for congress as you havent read the US constitution either. I suggest that you read it.

*sigh* I only shelled out a few hundred dollars for a class on it at the college when I was in my senior year of highschool.

Don't screw with me, I'm not in the mood - kay buddy.

I can be ten times as vendictive as you can, trust me. When you're the target of it for 75% of your life - you pick up on a LOT of trade secrets.

Although I will refrain from doing so as long as I can as reacting on my instinct right now would result in my being banned.

Mecheng - I can sort of empathize with you. It is hard to sort through all of the junk available on the internet. The key I find is to stay as emotionally detatched from it as possible. Because usually the side that plays the most on your heartstrings is the one that has the least credible reputation and their claims don't hold up under scrutiny.

There are exceptions.

However, you have to put things into perspective. The last election was nuts - people were damned near ready to kill each other. Many of the people blaming Bush for 9/11 as a conspirator are the same people who spearheaded anti-Bush claims in the elections. One can't help but wonder if it's a continuing personal vendetta.

I've had the pleasure of seeing the President in person when he visited us here in Sedalia. Unfortunately I never got to have a word with him - but I could tell instantly by looking at him that his mind was lightyears ahead of what was going on. The critics like to insult his inteligence - but he's a pretty darn bright guy. Maybe not the best photo boy, but who ever sounds inteligent on a camera? Didn't you all get subjected to your parents showing childhood videos to relatives and what-not... and you look at yourself on that screen and go "Oh my God - I'm an idiot...."?

Well - enough of that.

There's no way in reality that this was some government plot. It's too large of a scale, too high profile - and too goddamned inhumane.

Well given that Al-Qaeda, as an organisation, is an admitted construction of the United States government I'd say this does not change my belief that elements of the United States government in conjuction with the military-industrial complex orchestrated 9/11.

Since the majority of these alleged terrorists are Britons of Pakistani descent who will the Afghanistan-style retribution be foisted on? If it leads to a crack down on civil liberties in Britain then we have yet another 'cui bono' pointing to our authouritarian governments.

Originally posted by Aim64C
It is hard to sort through all of the junk available on the internet.

You should include the junk from the mainstream news as well.

The key I find is to stay as emotionally detached from it as possible. Because usually the side that plays the most on your heartstrings is the one that has the least credible reputation and their claims don't hold up under scrutiny.

I'm a logical, analytical person (MECHanical ENGineer) but it's easy to get carried away especially on this site sometime. There's very good stuff here but sometimes we need to step back. Hence the reason I started this thread.

he's a pretty darn bright guy. Maybe not the best photo boy, but who ever sounds intelligent on a camera?

There are people out there, believe it or not, who are very intelligent but not very good public speakers. Myself included...fairly intelligent but have social anxiety disorder. I admit I don't like Bush but I don't think that just because he looks like an idiot on TV most of the time that that means he's equally as dumb behind the scenes.

Well hear we go again. Just wait i can grantee that this is just another set up to take more of our rights away. I guess we will have to wait and see what new third Rik rules they push on us now. Probably an excuse to put cameras in every Americans bathroom, and a fed in every den. CIA and Taliban walk hand in hand, people were starting to think about all the rights they have lost and questioning the war to much so what does the government do stage a new event aided by the european government.

Yo Blair lets pull another fast one over on the public of our nations. Good idea Bush what do you think we can get the public puppets to do now? With fear anything we want.

Right now it's all speculation, from what I can see the terror plot looks legit so running with conspiracy ideas is kind of preemptive. Good to keep a close watch on it, though.

This phony war on Terrorism and having to constantly listen to Blair & Bush sprout more of there bull**** is really becoming monotonous to say the least.

After all there lies and deceit it beggars belief that people still buy into there bull**** hook line and sinker.

I've posted this before but I shall post it again as I think its very insightful.

I think David Icke describes fear most eloquently when talking about the new movie V for Vendetta.

... V for Vendetta the movie is not just a metaphor for a UK dictatorship, it is representative of the methods and ambitions of those who control governments across the world. And they all use fear, not just as their ‘ultimate tool', but the first, second and last. Everything they do is based on fear.

The Evey character says at one point: ‘I wish I wasn't afraid all the time'. But most people are, that's the idea. We fear the past, present and future. We fear the unknown, we fear not having enough, losing what we have, not having what we want. We fear what will become of us and those that we care for. We fear what others think of us and what they don't think of us. We fear, fear, fear and therefore we are controllable through the manipulation of all that we fear. The present War on Terror is the War of Fear. No Fear, no control.'

Who do you think it is that carries out all of there plans and puts them into action, all you puppets who buy into the game because your so dumbed down through fear and manipulation.

Stop playing there stupid games and stop buying into the fear.

Well Yo Blair is off on another one of his many holidays at some exotic location while the country and the rest of the planet is falling apart, but whats new. Hopefully us Brits will get lucky and he'll get eaten by a shark ( Did I just say that....oops) I can just see the news. Blair attacked and eaten by a great white. MI5 has today confirmed the shark which was hunted down and captured has ties to Al-Queda

Look to this day for yesterday is but a dream
And tomorrow is only a vision
But today well lived
Makes every yesterday a dream of happiness
And every tomorrow a vision of hope!!!!

I'm dreaming of a world without Blair and Bush. I recommend everyone else to do the same...........

The future cant change the past.


www.fbi.gov...


Bin Laden is not wanted in connection for 9/11 because they dont hink he was responsible for it.

THE FBI THINKS BIN LADEN'S AL QAEDA WAS NOT BEHIND 9/11 CLICK ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE AND READ WHAT IT (DOSENT) SAY.

I do know the Israelis knew about 9/11. I do know that Israeli agents were dancing and taking pictures when the towers fell. I do know they were arrested because of it.

What happend today dosent change thoes facts.

This is propaganda.

[edit on 10-8-2006 by Mujahid187]

Originally posted by Mujahid187



Bin Laden is not wanted in connection for 9/11 because they dont hink he was responsible for it.

Seeing as how Big Bin is most likely in Tora Boooreaa! I think you might wanna look up a little word called jurisdiction.That might help you understand! Might!

I also think this is all BS and propaganda.

And there's a terrible flaw in their story :
They tell us the plan was to blow 3 planes, then 3 other planes next day, then another 3 planes on another day.

Now you tell me for how many days were all planes grounded after 9/11 ?
If only 3 planes would have been blown up, all transit would have been stopped again in my opinion.

This just shows how gullible they think we are.
TV news start with saying 10+ planes were targetted, then when they expand that number falls to 9 and when they expand more, they tell us they really have no idea.
But the effect is there, it makes people scared.
Now if the terrorists's aim is to make us scared, then are the news networks terrorists by the way they handle the subject ?
I mean, even the business report was all about scaring people and not doing what they're supposed to do.

Originally posted by DuhhSeeing as how Big Bin is most likely in Tora Boooreaa! I think you might wanna look up a little word called.That might help you understand! Might!

CAUTION

USAMA BIN LADEN IS WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE AUGUST 7, 1998, BOMBINGS OF THE UNITED STATES EMBASSIES IN DAR ES SALAAM, TANZANIA, AND NAIROBI, KENYA. THESE ATTACKS KILLED OVER 200 PEOPLE. IN ADDITION, BIN LADEN IS A SUSPECT IN OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

www.fbi.gov...

Attacks on the Pentagon and WTCs outside FBI's jurisdiction? This is the FBI we are taking about, not state or local police.

Even if so, Bin Ladens rap sheet should include the events of 9/11. I mean, they got all that other stuff on there that happend in other countrys that no one has heard about. With out a doubt, they would include 9/11 since it happend on our very own soil.

When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on the FBI's web page, Rex Tomb, the FBI's Chief of Investigative Publicity, is reported to have said, "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."
Links

So if you take what is (isnt) said there, and look at what actions took place on 9/11, how can what happend today change your mind?

It dosent change facts.

Im sure terrorists are out to get us, im sure of that. But it dosent change my view on what happend on 9/11.

[edit on 10-8-2006 by Mujahid187]

Originally posted by Aim64C
*sigh* I only shelled out a few hundred dollars for a class on it at the college when I was in my senior year of highschool.

Im sorry you didnt pass the class.

Don't screw with me, I'm not in the mood - kay buddy.

Not a problem, Im not your husband.

I can be ten times as vendictive as you can, trust me.

Do mom and dad normally do what you want when you threaten them?

When you're the target of it for 75% of your life - you pick up on a LOT of trade secrets.

You make yourself a target by threatening people. If you want to stop being a target you should try toning the intimidating rhetoric.

Although I will refrain from doing so as long as I can as reacting on my instinct right now would result in my being banned.

Getting banned would be the easy way out, then you could blame it on the mods for depriving you of the opportunity to respond adequately. Personally Id allow you to throw a tantrum and call me names as it would expose the weakness of your position.

If america is still a constitutional repbulic obliged to comply with the US constitution then it is incumbant on the representatives of the people to operate according to the constitution. The constitution is quite specific in requiring congress to declare war before a president can wage war. The only way to change these requirements is via the constitutional ammendment process. Statuatory law cannot legally invalidate these requirements. And the congress cannot legally abdicate its sworn duty to uphold the constitution.

Either "the war" is illegal or america is no longer a constitutional republic.

The reputed failed plot is unimporant to my thinking regarding 9/11.
.



[edit on 10-8-2006 by df1]

But the answer for me is no.

While I certainly don't profess to know the "hows" or the details of same, they "whys" are pretty evident to me. The Old Money (the the ownersFederal Reserve on down...) has this planet's dominant species (that'd be us) set up to run on a "global" or "permanent war economy". It's pretty basic actually, there simply MUST be a bogey man for us to pour trillions of dollars into each and every budget cycle or the whole show goes under.

When Communism was beaten down by a complete and utter lack of common sense on the Politburo's part combined with the fact it just can't work with Human nature such as it is, what did we have to make sure the R&D contracts, new fighter jet, recon, and bomber orders kept rolling in? Anyone who wants to bad enough can dig and discover the "Old Money" is very deeply involved in one of the highest profit margin, guarenteed sales (as long as there is a threat) industries either directly or indirectly through subsidiaries and stock ownership.

Terrorism is our new bogeyman, one of the best people to ever get into politics, "Ike", not only predicted this outcome but he actually felt strongly enough bout it to do something not many politicians were doing back then, get on TV and warn us all. :0

Do I think factions with great sway over the USG had a direct involvement in 9/11? I don't know, I doubt it, they aren't that stupid. Do I think it's possible they would have let it happen if they had foreknowledge? You bet your last dollar I think it's possible.

Springer...

ATTENTION:

Don't let your inability to have NON EMOTIONAL discussion on this subject get you banned. There is NO NEED for "personality focused" posting in this thread. Stay ON TOPIC. FINAL WARNING.



[edit on 8-10-2006 by Springer]

You have voted Springer for the way above top secret award. You have two votes left this month.

On a more serious note.

Todays events haven't changed my opinions on anything either.

Those that wish to push a fanatical belief will hold it out as an example of what they are doing to destroy the infidels. Just because it didn't work will do nothing to stop the propaganda.

Those who wish to erode the rights of the general population so they may garner more power and usher in a new world order will use todays events for that purpose. The propaganda is going to get deep

Any way you look at this situation the bad guys win.

wupy

[edit on 10-8-2006 by mrwupy]

Originally posted by mrwupy
Any way you look at this situation the bad guys win.

wupy

THAT STATEMENT is the absolute TRUTH IMHO. When the "bad guys" have both sides of "the ball" (using an American football euphemism) nobody wins but the "bad guys". Perfect set up.

That is crux of my opinion on these events. The whole thing is a dog and pony show for our consumption and the hoped for response is fear and the desire for security.

Springer...