The Liberty Dollar

More damning is when you compare one to a LEGAL TENDER Silver Dollar.

The real one Says 'The United States of America' and 'In God we trust'.


The Liberty Dollar says 'USA' and 'TRUST IN GOD'.


Intent to deceive unwitting sheep firmly established.


And what would you do after accepting a liberty coin in place of a 20$ FRN then being told by the bank that its not real money? You would walk away in shame accpeting your loss, a little poorer but much wiser.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I've never heard of this, but I find this quote interesting:

Paul Harvey, well-known and respected news commentator, reported:

What's new? The Liberty Dollar! Fed Ex competes with the Post Office. So now there's the Liberty Dollar competing with the greenbacks printed by your government. The Liberty Dollar is backed by gold and silver. Yes, there's a competitive currency right here in the United States. In five years it has become the second most popular currency in America. [empahsis mine]

How many currencies are there in the US?

Also, Paul Harvey will say anything that he's paid to say.

Liberty dollars are currency. So are chicken wings, and baskets full of squash.

Liberty dollars are not LEGAL TENDER. They cannot be used to pay debts, and banks do not accpet them.


1 Liberty Dollar = 60.8 cents of metal


If they would simply print its weight instead of a bogus dollar figure it could do the things the promoters suggest, but as purposeful deception all it will do is put money in the pockets of the Liberty Dollar promoters while taking dollars out of the pockets of hard working people who are duped into believing that these tokens are worth face value.

Originally posted by Nygdan

From what I gather, the 'notes' are contracts, entitling you to his companies collection of gold, and, presumably by the terms of the contract, must be redeemed in gold on demand. So in a sense, assuming that the guy isn't scamming on all levels, I'd think that you could turn in your certificate for the gold/silver, and sell it on the market at profit.

I wonder though, if he, like banks in the past, is issuing more certificates than he can actually cover? Woudl that even be legal?

You can turn in your certificates for metal, and the coins already have the metal in them, but the $20 silver piece only has $12-13 dollars of metal and the $1000 gold piece only has $610 of metal.

There is no need for them to scam people by making more certificates than there is metal to cover because they are putting on a face value greater than the value of the metal behind it.

A Liberty Dollar is $20 because NORFED declares it is by fiat? Absurd!

The thing to be cautious about is when people start offering you money for your gold, as it is a sign the economy is in a sort of recession. But this guy is doing the opposite, but rather brands the precious metal with his own signature which is not necessarily a bad thing because it's still gold or silver. The thing is, debating with someone over the value of such a coin when the US dollar fluctuates will be bothersome.

I just find it pointless to invest in such a short term investment. The only use in buying these is if you want physical gold as opposed to stock. Even then it's probably marked up for his profit. Get rid of the middleman.
His notes are worthless. I don't see anyone actually accepting this when no major bank would recognize it and exchange it for real money.

You people saying the Liberty Dollar is a scam, wouldn't know a scam if it bit you on the nose. The Federal Reserve Note is the greatest scam of all. It is only worth 2 cents of the gold backed dollar of yore. The Fed issues this worthless paper money and rip off the ignorant people who happily take it for the real thing. All the while their property is being slowly stolen!

Yeah, the Liberty dollar is $20. That does not mean that it is a scam. What is a $20 Federal Reserve note? A piece of paper? I would rather have an ounce of silver than a piece of paper. Even if you look at a new golden dollar, it is only base metal not worth more than 50 cents.

Yeah, the Liberty Dollar is not legal tender. Do you even know what legal tender is? It means that if I offer a FRN to pay debts the vendor has to accept it, they do not have a choice. Legal tender is a means to support the worthless dollar. It does not mean that
something else cannot be used in payment of debt. In fact there are many vendors who are happy to take the LD.

Yeah, banks do not accept the LD. What does that mean? The real purpose of the LD is to be used as a local currency. There are many local currencies out there and thank God for them. Corporations and Banks suck currency out of local economies. Local currencies tend to stay in the local economies.

The only down side of the LD is that it is a poor vehicle for investment. But hey, the FRN is also a poor vehicle for investment. If you had to choose between the two it would be better to have the LD since it is not affected by inflation. But really, if you want to invest, just buy some silver bullion. I personally have LD, Canadian Maples, and British Britannias.

What makes LD suitable as currency? They try to keep it on par with the FRN, and they have an electronic payment system. You can't say that about any other silver money out there except maybe the Phoenix Dollar, but the PD is not widely used at all.

Just go read www.libertydollar.org

Well, I admire the overall attempt of the business. I don't think its a complete scam. But trust me, not in "Nut Haus".

The company itself seems to believe in having a gold standard currency system, instead of a Federal Reserve controlled frog boiling debt system. And I think thats great.

However, there's a problem. They Inflate the currency they're selling so high. The reason they give for not charging 13$ for a coin containing 13$ worth of silver, is porduction costs. i.e. you don't pay the baker only 50cents for the raw materials that go into the bread, you pay them for the production aswell.

BUT COMMON!!! I do not believe that it takes 400$ to make a gold coin.

And the final point is...

Why are they putting 5$, 10$ and 20$ markings on the coins? Does this not defeat the whole purpose? Because the whole purpose of this is to stop everything from being compared to the Federal dollar anyway.

Either they're kind of smart and tricky, or noble and really stupid.

But i digress. Go get gold from a secure source. Investigate before you dump $1000 on a coin. It might just end up being only worth 600

This is my first post, came accross this slur, against the Liberty Dollar, and had to respond.

Those calling the Liberty Dollar a "scam" and "illegal" don't know what they're talking about!

They are up-front about the pricing structure, discounts, et al.

It's typical that you get someone (stop with the "Nut-Hous" crap you moron!) actually trying to DO something about a big problem (our current, un-Constitutional system of CREDIT--not "money"--controlled by private bankers), instead of just griping on a message board, and out come the naysayers who don't know #, don't do #, who can only ridicule. Pathetic.

The new US Mint Presidential series 'dollar' has an intrinsic value of 5 or 6 CENTS--talk about a SCAM, and an outrageous mark-up! Actually worth LESS than a nickel's meltdown value! The paper FRNs are even WORSE--they're worth less than 4 CENTS each, REGARLDLESS of denomination. Who are the 'suckers',now!

The toughest thing about explaining the LD concept is that it is a CURRENCY, not an INVESTMENT. Again, this is clearly and honestly explained by LD themselves. The "dollar" denomination on the pieces are meant as a guide, and can be haggled over, if so chosen--just like the price of ANYTHING (cars, houses, clothes, etc.) is only an INVITATION to barter (how is it that Target can offer 25%, even 50%, or MORE off of the listed "retail" price?). Oh, but its SOOO horrible that people are making a profit off it, right? You mean, just like ANY OTHER business that wants to STAY in business, does? Do you think that YOU aren't paying for the operations of the Mint? Do you think the Mint doesn't make a profit? HAH!!! Also, I've seen a few suggest that, simply, stamping an ounce denomination would be sufficient. I would LIKE to agree with this assertion, but, really, as ignorant as many on HERE seem to be about this issue, does anyone REALLY think the typical American is gonna have ANY clue about the spot price of silver, on any given day? The dollar denomination makes them PRACTICAL.

As far as for "why would LD Associates exchange LDs for FRNs": why do you THINK??!! FRNs are the dominant media for exchange, and EVERYONE will need them, for some time to come.

Also, some of y'all need to educate yourselves as to what a DEBT is. Merchants DO NOT have to accept FRNs in EXCHANGE for goods; exchanging property for property is NOT the same as using FRNs in payment of debt. Debt is what happens when one BORROWS money, or credit, in other words.

They ARE NOT a scam, and there's nothing illegal about them, PERIOD. Associates are instructed to NOT characterize them as "legal tender" or Govt money, etc. They DO NOT look ANYTHING like the FRNs being circulated, or Govt coin money. The sercret service and the mint have ALREADY stated they are legal; I think that, since LDs are showing just how inflationary our govt's monetary policy is, as well as the fact that they're gaining in popularity and staying power (naysayers said LDs wouldn't last, suprise, suprise!), the Mint is backpeddling, now.

Oh, and BTW, I am an Associate, who has spent (I'd estimate) $500+ in LDs of varying denominations, though I've found that the physical silver is easiest to spend. So much for "no merchants" accepting them, eh?

As much as I would like to see America end its hold on the Federal Reserve, I don't see it happening unless the government issued it, and only the gov... But as we all know they tried... and failed, RIP JFK.

At a minimum, if people know about the Fed, and want to do SOMETHING about it, they can sign up as Associates, and buy a few LDs, from time to time. Its much more constructive than calling these people naive suckers, and nuts. For the foreseeable future, the Govt isn't doing anything, so we, as consumers, can exercise our right to purchase LDs and attempt to spend them. It raises awarness, and--at a minimum--you are supporting a worthy cause and brave individuals.

I do not like the looks of the Liberty Dollar, but I do want to see our money get backed by gold again. The FED is the biggest problem Americans face. They control our lives.

Oh yeah...
Legal tender is money that is backed by coercion.

There are many local currencies in the US. One of the most successful is BerkShares.

The more I think about it, I think they did this in advance of the total collapse of the US Dollar. If the US Dollar completely collapses, the Liberty Dollar like other local currencies could have stepped into the void with considerable resources.

But that would have been a big problem for those who want an end to the US Dollar and see to its replacement with the Amero. For the Amero to succeed all other alternatives need to be cut off at the knees ... especially if there are coins bearing the unspeakble name of Ron Paul as well as his likeness.

[edit on 15/11/07 by Pellevoisin]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Ok, I will tell you all right now this is in no way a real currency, just isn't.

Only congress can print money. Only the US dollar is able to purchase goods.

There are many many ways to purchase goods. My girlfriend's favorite is to get sexy around me when she wants me to buy something for her. In a way, that's an exchange.

The government can't tell you what agreements you can make whenever you're doing business. All sorts of commodities are used as a medium of exchange, and it happens all the time.

Now as far as federal reserve notes go, our government has made a decree that they are the one and only medium that the government will back up, but this doesn't prevent competitors to come up with other currencies.

It is entirely legal to make other forms of "money" simply because the definition of money is actually an abstract concept too vague to nail down.

You're right about congress. It IS the only body granted authority to create COIN and notes based on coin, and introduce it into the economy. So I ask you... why is the "Federal" reserve doing it instead?

The government is pretending someone else is guilty of a crime here, when the government itself is the REAL criminal. They just don't want anyone else to have the chance of cutting in on their racket.



“Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its powers, but the truth is that the Federal Reserve System has usurped the government. It controls everything in congress and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will.” - Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency


"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States." -- Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)


"Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities, intrinsically, a 'dollar' bill is just a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries." - Modern Money Mechanics Workbook, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, 1975


"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers." - Congressional Record 12595-12603 June 10, 1932


"The Federal Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities..." - Lewis vs. United States 9th Circuit 1992

All I add to the discussion is two points:

-there's a collector's market for silver/gold coins and the commodity itself -- as buying and selling silver/gold, obviously.

-dated coins of a certain weight have stock value, even these recent additions. Yet, seems like the Mint has a webpage w/ all the 'illegal' tenders.

This is Ron Paul's point about abolishing the fed reserve -- this recent case is like the nwo creeping into everyday life -- they're gonna take rights away from hobbyists and stock commodity traders?!? What's really going on here? And there hasn't been any updates on the case.



[edit on 15-11-2007 by anhinga]

The liberty dollar isn't illegal. What it actually is is a more HONEST currency than the paper our government has forced on us since we abolished the gold standard.

The problem is that to the fed, the liberty dollar is competition. So they shut it down. They don't want anyone cutting in on their racket.


Google video "Money as Debt" - "Monopoly Men" - "The Money Masters"

Originally posted by anhinga

....they're gonna take rights away from hobbyists and stock commodity traders?!?

....and forfeit what remains of Article 1, clause 8 of the US Constitution?

Mint Fears Losses From Penny Meltdown

The Treasury has proposed that it be allowed to transfer from Congress to itself the authority to measure and make adjustments in the composition and weight of coins, so it can head off future spikes in metal prices.

This would be historic. Since Congress created the Mint in 1792, it has exercised constitutional authority over America's pocket change. Linl

In 1913, congress abrogated it's constitutional obligation with respect to paper currency...but kept control of the small change. And how's that been working-out lately?

The pre-1982 penny is worth over twice it's face value this morning; $0.0209162. A 1946-2007 Nickel melts at $0.0652215...was around $0.08 a couple of months ago.

Our hard commodity-based currency appreciates, while our paper FRN's revert to mean-zero. Both dynamics place a financial burden on the taxpayer.

“You have to choose [as a voter] between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the Government. And, with due respect for these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold.” - George Bernard Shaw

Paul campaign spokeswoman, Kerri Price, said yesterday that while Paul also supports abolishing the Federal Reserve, the campaign "does not have any affiliation with Liberty Dollars at all."
Link

As the backlash unfolds, attempts to distance the Paul campaign from the LD begin. Good luck. Just checked Ebay. Bids for RP 20 dollar pieces are running as high as $370.00. Nice profits...nice PR.

Report from 'The Street' with video clip.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
The more I think about it, I think they did this in advance of the total collapse of the US Dollar. If the US Dollar completely collapses, the Liberty Dollar like other local currencies could have stepped into the void with considerable resources.

But that would have been a big problem for those who want an end to the US Dollar and see to its replacement with the Amero. For the Amero to succeed all other alternatives need to be cut off at the knees ... especially if there are coins bearing the unspeakble name of Ron Paul as well as his likeness.

[edit on 15/11/07 by Pellevoisin]

Very well thought out!

Well for all intents and purposes the Liberty Dollar is dead, this last week the FED ordered their pet dogs, the FBI and the Secret Service to seize everything they could, especially all of the metals (Gold, Silver and Platinum) that are owned by the Liberty Dollar. The Banksters are running scarred because the Liberty Dollar was a real threat to the Amero as Ron Paul is a real threat to the Corporate Rulers of the United States. The economy is already collapsing, and should continue to do so. Once it has collapsed, should anyone mention to me consolidating with mexico or Canada, I will give them what they truly deserve.

Tim McVeigh would have been a national Hero if he had bombed Goldman Sachs!

[Peter] Schiff........recently sent out a "call to action" e-mail to the 60,000 people in his database urging them to send the $2,300 maximum-allowed contribution to Paul's campaign, describing this as one of the most productive uses for their rapidly fading U.S. dollars.
Link

This effort by well known market analyst Peter Schiff, is sure to fatten the campaign coffers of Ron Paul. LD founder Bernard von Nothaus, anxious to maintain PR momentum, can't wait for the handcuffs.


Kudlow supports Liberty Dollar as NPR mocks feds over it

Dr. Clifford F. Thies Says Liberty Dollars are Legal

Just to add my thoughts...if something were to cause a collapse of Government in this country....martial law or whatever else it might be....I d rather have some real silver and gold in my pocket than some worthless piece of paper that no one would accept any longer.

The ONLY reason other currencies aren't being used in free competition to the Federal Reserve Note is that the government MANDATES that you pay taxes with money they have control over.

Otherwise, the people would have choices in what they would prefer to use to buy and sell with, and they could pick things that are safer, less easily manipulated, less easily counterfeited, and more reliable and stable than FRNs.

Long story short, those in the monopoly money business don't like competition, so now our ship is sinking because we were all forced to get on board a ship doomed to sink.


A new currency will replace the FRNs we use today, simply because it's a fiat currency and its value will reach zero just like ALL other fiat currencies in history have done.


The liberty dollar was an attempt to make available to the public a means of exchange that wasn't tied to the value of the dollar. It's simply a privately minted coin, and its use was not illegal in any way. The reason the government raided their headquarters wasn't because anything criminal was being done, but because one of their coins had the face of the presidential candidate they simply couldn't afford to let get any more publicity: Ron Paul.


Liberty dollars and all alternative currencies are an exercise of your right to freedom of choice. ANYTHING can become money as long as the people want to use it, whether Federal Reserve Notes, gold, Disney Dollars, or even things like seashells, gems, or crops and animals. They are ALL free choices, and no one can tell you that you MUST use one thing or another as an intermediate in your exchanges.

Money is simply an intermediate... The thing that comes between getting paid and getting what you want. What you choose to accept or not accept is your god-given right.


However, when law requires you to pay your taxes in one specific form of currency, and also states that any "payment of debt" is to be considered settled with that currency, that currency becomes dominant. The same people who made these laws also said "we are the only ones allowed to create this currency legally", and of course, didn't forget to charge interest on its creation!


So essentially you have a system where you and I must work hard for money, but the government and banks can simply create what they need just by turning the printing presses on, or writing checks. They can create all the money they need to buy up the world. And indeed, they nearly have.