Methinks I fell in love with an ass (Titania)

I remember a while back seeing a photograph of Crowley riding an ass, I can't remember if he had anything in his hand.

Jesus is famous for riding an ass with a palm in his hand into Jerusalem on Palms Sunday; an arab friends tells me that Palms are liked for their undeniable beauty and also because they resemble (in generous proportions) a phallus ejaculating.

There is an ass at the Nativity scene.

Does anybody know if there is a link between all these asses? Has it ever been discussed here?

Originally posted by Ersatz
I remember a while back seeing a photograph of Crowley riding an ass, I can't remember if he had anything in his hand.

I shudder to think.

Jesus is famous for riding an ass with a palm in his hand into Jerusalem on Palms Sunday

I believe you're getting the cart before the horse (or ass as the case may be). Palm Sunday (which occurs on the Sunday before Easter) is the celebration of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Although he IS famous, he only did this triumphal entry thing once so I'm not so sure one could say he's famous for that, necessarily. Christians tend to consider him "famous" for being the Son of the Almighty God, but anyway.

an arab friends tells me that Palms are liked for their undeniable beauty and also because they resemble (in generous proportions) a phallus ejaculating.

Going out on a limb here but are you saying that Arabs like to see phalluses ejaculationg? Interesting indeed.

There is an ass at the Nativity scene.

Along with some other barnyard animals, yes.

Does anybody know if there is a link between all these asses? Has it ever been discussed here?

When I get bored I often go back through the archives of this site and read (and sometimes re-read) the old posts and I'll have to say that I've never seen a thread pertaining to ass-linking. Perhaps one of the longer subscribers could point you in the right direction, though.

on a side note for some reason, there was specualtion that israel blew up a donkey in s lebanon for some reason.

Originally posted by Appak

I believe you're getting the cart before the horse (or ass as the case may be). Palm Sunday (which occurs on the Sunday before Easter) is the celebration of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Although he IS famous, he only did this triumphal entry thing once so I'm not so sure one could say he's famous for that, necessarily. Christians tend to consider him "famous" for being the Son of the Almighty God, but anyway.

Going out on a limb here but are you saying that Arabs like to see phalluses ejaculationg? Interesting indeed.

When I get bored I often go back through the archives of this site and read (and sometimes re-read) the old posts and I'll have to say that I've never seen a thread pertaining to ass-linking. Perhaps one of the longer subscribers could point you in the right direction, though.

Sarcasm is still the lowest form of wit.

It was a fairly simple, innocuous question, if you don't know the answer no need to reply.

Going out on a limb? What do you mean, Jesus was an Arab and phalluses are part of every culture specially so when it is mutilated at a young age.
What do you think palms represent? Why would he carry a palm and ride an ass?
What do asses represent?
In the nativity scene there were an ass and an ox, strange combination.
I would just have liked to know more, that's all.

Originally posted by Ersatz

What do you think palms represent? Why would he carry a palm and ride an ass?
What do asses represent?
In the nativity scene there were an ass and an ox, strange combination.
I would just have liked to know more, that's all.

Tradtionally, palms have been a symbol of peace.

The wood is too soft to build battering rams and other symbols of warfare. The tree it self is not hardy, and so is easily uprooted by epochal windstorms, earthquatkes, etc. I think it says in the Psalms that a land with peace for a generation has might palm trees, or some such.

An ass was simply the Semitic symbol of wealth. Most people walked. They didn't use horses much, since warhorses need loads and loads of grain and high quality grain. Asses can subsist almost entirely on native grass. So the Ass is perfectly suited to travel in arid areas (like Galilee), and not nearly as wayward as a camel can be.

It would be like Jesus riding into Washington DC in a Limo, and waving a peace sign. He's the rightful ruler, but he's not using force to overthrow the govt.


.

Originally posted by Ersatz
Sarcasm is still the lowest form of wit.

Sorry you thought that was sarcasm. It wasn't.

It was a fairly simple, innocuous question, if you don't know the answer no need to reply.

Any member of the forum may reply. Thank you.

Going out on a limb? What do you mean, Jesus was an Arab and phalluses are part of every culture specially so when it is mutilated at a young age.

In what sense are "phalluses [a] part of every culture"? They're not part of MY culture (besides the obvious of course) Why would Jesus be representing a phallus?

What do you think palms represent? Why would he carry a palm and ride an ass?
What do asses represent?

Actually if you read the Bible the PEOPLE greeting HIM were waving palm branches and laying them in his path. He was just riding into Jerusalem. As to the ass, why does it have to "represent" something? I drive a Yukon Denali. Not to "represent" anything it's just a mode of transportation. The ass was how he got to town.

In the nativity scene there were an ass and an ox, strange combination.
I would just have liked to know more, that's all.

Why is that a "strange combination?" They're animals used for work and travel. There were likely sheep as well. Sure Jesus is considered by some to be the "Good Shepherd" but the sheep were just farm animals in the "scene" not necessarily symbolic. I'm just confused as to why ordinary everyday things appear to be symbolic to so many people.

No sarcasm indended Ersatz

Originally posted by Appak

Actually if you read the Bible the PEOPLE greeting HIM were waving palm branches and laying them in his path. He was just riding into Jerusalem. As to the ass, why does it have to "represent" something? I drive a Yukon Denali. Not to "represent" anything it's just a mode of transportation. The ass was how he got to town.

Well that's not true. Jesus chose to ride into Jerusalem on a ass to fulfill the messianic prophesies. If I'm not mistaken it was really the first time Jesus outwardly proclaimed himself the Messiah.


Aleister Crowley on the other hand was pictured on a donkey because he was on his first expedition to the Himalayans and that was how you got around in 1902.



Sometimes an ass is just an ass.


[edit on 8/8/2006 by Cug]

Originally posted by Cug
Well that's not true. Jesus chose to ride into Jerusalem on a ass to fulfill the messianic prophesies. If I'm not mistaken it was really the first time Jesus outwardly proclaimed himself the Messiah.

You're exactly right Cug. I failed to mention the prophesy of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Mea culpa.

Sometimes an ass is just an ass.

Oh so true.

Originally posted by Ersatz
What do asses represent?

Um......no comment.

In the nativity scene there were an ass and an ox, strange combination.
I would just have liked to know more, that's all.

Please tell me you jest. A donkey and an ox, a strange combination? You must not have gone to too many farms, have you?

No, a strange combination would be an ass and a dinosaur, an ass and a penguin, or an ass and a Komodo Dragon.

An ass and an ox is about as normal a barnyard/middle eastern stable scene as you can get.

It's a study/research into the suxual/priapic symbolism of certain animals; in this case the ass. My collegue says exactly like Dr strangcraft and Cug.
I am not convinced, also I have read this:

"The devil's card with the letter Ayin which means an Eye, and it refers to Capricornus in the Zodiac. In the Dark Ages of Christianity, it was completely misunderstood. Eliphaz Levi studied it very deeply because of its connection with ceremonial magic, his favourite subject; and he re-drew it, identifying it with Baphomet, the ass-headed idol of the Knights of the Temple.[The Early Christians also were accused of worshipping an Ass, or ass.ed god. See Browning, The Ring and the Book (The Pope).]"

So I am doing well with Apuleius (the Golden ass), Shakespeare (Midsummer etc..) and Crowley. The argument is feeble with Jesus and with the Nativity Scene and I was looking for some more confirmations.
Grateful to any that have anything to add...

Originally posted by Ersatz
It's a study/research into the suxual/priapic symbolism of certain animals; in this case the ass. My collegue says exactly like Dr strangcraft and Cug.
I am not convinced, also I have read this:

"The devil's card with the letter Ayin which means an Eye, and it refers to Capricornus in the Zodiac. In the Dark Ages of Christianity, it was completely misunderstood. Eliphaz Levi studied it very deeply because of its connection with ceremonial magic, his favourite subject; and he re-drew it, identifying it with Baphomet, the ass-headed idol of the Knights of the Temple.[The Early Christians also were accused of worshipping an Ass, or ass.ed god. See Browning, The Ring and the Book (The Pope).]"

So I am doing well with Apuleius (the Golden ass), Shakespeare (Midsummer etc..) and Crowley. The argument is feeble with Jesus and with the Nativity Scene and I was looking for some more confirmations.
Grateful to any that have anything to add...

Baphomet has the head of an ass? I dont think so. Every representation of Baphomet I have ever seen has the head of a goat.

If you are looking for symbolism, the ass is usually identified with ridiculous and stupid behavior. Remember the story of Midas?

If you are looking for animals with the sexual symbolism, youre way off mark. Animals identified as symbolic in male, female, and both sexuality:

Bull
goat
cat
horse
snake
frog
rabbit
ram

You are definitely seeing symbolism where none exists.

Your obsession with the Nativity scene is odd. Mary rode a donkey to Bethlehem. They had to stay in a stable. Thus, it is only natural that a donkey be in the stable with them, since thats where they park their animals. Oxes also lived in stables, as they were used to pull heavy loads.

The portraits of nativity scenes are artists pictures of how they visualize the Nativity. There is nothing odd or weird about an ox and donkey in a stable, since that is where such animals are kept.

I want to thank you for having replied to what must have seemed a bit of a silly thread, I have now found my answer.

For those who may be interested here's an abridged account of the findings:


It was forbidden to yoke together an ass and an ox in the plough (Deut. 22:10). (3.)

The ass is an unclean animal, because it does not chew the cud (Lev. 11:26. Comp. 2 Kings 6:25).

According to Robert Graves (Greek Myths and Legends, 1968.), the ass was domesticated by early peoples in the upper Nile valley. It was priceless for farming as well as trade and transportation and became the center of a cult. It was worshipped as being sacred to the great god Set, Lord of the Universe, the original head of the Egyptian pantheon, whose home was the South. Set often was depicted in a donkey's shape. His distinguishing mark was, unsurprisingly, long and pointed ears. Representations of these ears became the prototypes of divine and royal power, i.e. ultimate authority. They form the power glyph: the two tips of every scepter carried by Egyptian gods and kings, as tokens of remembrance that all legitimate power derives from Set. With Set's downfall in Upper Egypt and the regions under his influence, the Southern part of sky and earth lost early on much of its prestige

In the cults of Asia Minor the ass was also a symbol of Typhon (notably for Gnostics), Satan, Jehovah, or Saturn. In that period the divinities worshipped were frequently symbolized by animals. Thus the Gnostic Demiurge, engendered seven animal-headed angels to assist in governing the world -- the second with the head of an ass. The ox was associated with a form of worship that was being displaced at the time of the arrival of Christ -- symbolized by the birth in a manger. But there were still many who worshipped the bull, following practices prevalent in an earlier era (associated by astrologers with the age of Taurus), and which were preserved at that time in the mysteries of Mithras and of Egypt. The era immediately preceding that of Christianity (the age of Aries, the Ram or Lamb) is symbolized by the sheep motif in biblical times. The ass was specifically associated with the story of Mary and her Child. Two asses are mentioned symbolically in the Gospel story, one coming from the north and bearing Mary to Bethlehem, and the other taking her down into Egypt. Christianity now focuses negatively on the "beasts in the wilderness", including the wild ass (Job. 39:5), having effectively lost their former symbolic and transformative significance.

Priapus, the Greek God of fertility was born with a massively enlarged penis. This phallic symbol was used to ward off the evil eye and statues of him were used as scarecrows in gardens. His cult was similar to that of Dionysus, and he was often depicted as an ass.

Significantly, the worship of the ass flourished at the same period as that of another domesticated animal the ox, or bull. There has been considerable related commentary on worship of the Golden Calf amongst the early Israelites following a practice they borrowed from the Egyptians (Exodus, 32)

Originally posted by Cug

Sometimes an ass is just an ass.

Hahaha, now hows that for some lowbrow and therefore sarcastic humour. I applaud such witticism, but I have always enjoyed the lowest form of humour above any other.

Sarcasm is glorious in my opinion.

The only miraculous thing about an Ass is when one talked.

Look up Baalam's Donkey. And I think it was a she-donkey.

Thank goodness I came by this post, it was hilarious.
So with all these animals meant to represent sexual symbolism...would not it not concern you that it is also hinting the act of bestiality? I only pray no animal is abused.

Originally posted by Cug

Sometimes an ass is just an ass.

[edit on 8/8/2006 by Cug]

Shame on you, Cug, it was Crowley that said the ass is associated with Baphomet.

Originally posted by laiguana
Thank goodness I came by this post, it was hilarious.
So with all these animals meant to represent sexual symbolism...would not it not concern you that it is also hinting the act of bestiality? I only pray no animal is abused.

Glad you enjoied it, perhaps, as your avatar indicates, you should limit your activities to smelling mammels instead of indulging in perilous cerebral excersises.

Originally posted by Ersatz

Originally posted by laiguana
Thank goodness I came by this post, it was hilarious.
So with all these animals meant to represent sexual symbolism...would not it not concern you that it is also hinting the act of bestiality? I only pray no animal is abused.

Glad you enjoied it, perhaps, as your avatar indicates, you should limit your activities to smelling mammels instead of indulging in perilous cerebral excersises.

It's truly inspiring that when someone finds humor (and there is MUCH humor on this site from time to time) he or she can't accept that some things are ridiculous and turns it to an ad hominem attack on the individual who posted it. Particularly an attack on one's intelligence while utilizing misspelled words.

Oh well. I guess if you can't come back with a snappy reply, just attack the poster. That'll show 'em!

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

No, a strange combination would be an ass and a dinosaur, an ass and a penguin, or an ass and a Komodo Dragon.

An ass and an ox is about as normal a barnyard/middle eastern stable scene as you can get.

Stop it...you made me cry. I seriously considered a new sig over this one.

I've really enjoyed this thread.

Originally posted by Appak


It's truly inspiring that when someone finds humor (and there is MUCH humor on this site from time to time) he or she can't accept that some things are ridiculous and turns it to an ad hominem attack on the individual who posted it. Particularly an attack on one's intelligence while utilizing misspelled words.

Oh well. I guess if you can't come back with a snappy reply, just attack the poster. That'll show 'em!

Thank you Appak,

Here's one more suited to your wit: The error of genius is often the consolation of simpletons.