Plane atomizes at 500 knots into fortified concrete wall

First off, that wheel rim is a couple hundred pounds alone. Put the force of it moving at 500+ mph behind it and it's gonna leave a pretty substantial hole.

Second, I said it was found IN the debris pile, not that it was the ONLY thing that went through that wall. There was a pretty good sized pile of debris outside that wall. And I don't think the two holes were anywhere near the same size.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
And I don't think the two holes were anywhere near the same size.

Look again. Almost exact same consistency. AAC

Even if they ARE the same size, you STILL have the 757 moving through the building. You have to account for the same mass as it goes through the building. Sure some of it won't make it to the other side, but a lot of it is going to, and you're going to end up with a good sized hole on the exit as well.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Even if they ARE the same size, you STILL have the 757 moving through the building. You have to account for the same mass as it goes through the building. Sure some of it won't make it to the other side, but a lot of it is going to, and you're going to end up with a good sized hole on the exit as well.

I appreciate your opposition. I am realizing there is nothing I can say to you, and vice versa, that is going to sway opinion. Opinions vary... AAC

Here's the thing.

CTer's bring up two conflicting arguments. One is that the airplane is made of aluminum and therefore cannot have penetrated the pentagon. The other is that the damage left by the plane is too small for an aircraft that size.

The F-4 demonstration shows how a plane can disintigrate despite speed when impacting with something hard. but of course the solid block does not represent the walls of the Pentagon, it simply displays the disintigration process that the wings and some other parts went through.

How can a light aluminum plane penetrate a solid building? How can a playing card slice a peice of wood in a tornado?

Try hitting yourself in the chest with a 2x4. No matter how hard you try it will not penetrate your chest. But now try it with a pencil and you can easily impale yourself. With the pencil the force is fopcused onto a single point, but with a flat board it is distributted over a large area. So with the body of the plane the force is concentrated intoa small area, much like the card in a tornado. It's never that large side of the card that cuts through wood, it's the thin side because the force is focused into a small area. And likeiwse the wings and enginers have a force distributed over a large area so they aren't going to penetrate the building as easily.

Also coming into play is the heat properties of aluminum. it doesn't store heat very well so it gets extremly hot very quickly and quickly melts. The force of the impact is going to generate an enourmous amount of heat. Factor in that the wings hold the fuel of the plane which is going to igniight, and you have even more heat. So it's basically going to instantly liquify.

So as you can see you kind of have a mixture of the two. Some parts liquified, while other parts survived. As to be expected in an event that is going to have such random variables.

Believing a 757 hit the pentagon is more ludicrous than believing reptilians exist to be honest with ya.

Ever try to keep a 757 10-15ft off the ground at 300-400knots, pilots would laugh. Even if the plane came down at a steep angle there would not have been the deep penetration it created.

See, I keep forgetting that the wall was magic concrete. I never seem to remember that aluminum can't penetrate it, or will just magically stop and all the laws of physics will be suspended there.

Was there any wreckage found beyond the last internal wall that may have been
attributed to causing the large exit hole? I don't believe I've seen mention of anything
being found. The nose gear is my first guess and makes sense, but where was it found?

Could the exit hole have been made by some compression forces rather than an object?

There was at least one wheel rim found beyond the exit hole, along with numerous other parts.

Zaphod I appreciate you answering all my questions. Could you reference your info for
me. so I can catalogue it?

Thanks

911research.wtc7.net...

Right in the center of the pic, that looks like a cargo door from the plane.

There's another pic that has the wheel rim laying on the debris pile, but I can't find it right now. I'll dig it up tonight.

Anybody ever hear of a term called "spalling"?

When that 757 hit the Pentagon's wall it imparted energy to pieces of that wall. So now instead of just having pieces of aircraft, you have pieces of aircraft and wall moving at a high velocity. Even in places that the airframe didn't penetrate the wall it still could have sent pieces of the wall inside moving at high speed.

Spall

Spalling appears to describe small chips of debris.

I would imagine the 'piece' being much larger than a chip to cause the size of the exit hole.
But your hypothesis is relevant and something that of course may have been the cause.
Thanks for the link!

Spalling will change size based on the mass and speed at impact. The bigger the impact the bigger the pieces that would go flying off.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
911research.wtc7.net...

Right in the center of the pic, that looks like a cargo door from the plane.

There's another pic that has the wheel rim laying on the debris pile, but I can't find it right now. I'll dig it up tonight.

Thanks for link!

The best photos I was able to find are here.

911review.org...

I don't necessarily suscribe to the content of that site but the pictures are good.
I don't see any wheels and the author makes a good point straight away.
That's why I asked earlier if a compression force could have made that hole considering there was most likely secondary and tertiary explosions inside after the
plane broke through the first wall. The secondary explosions may have blown an interior object through the last ring?

One of the multitude of Pentagon threads on here had the pic. I'll keep looking for it. It was sort of buried in the top of the debris pile in the pic I'm thinking of.

Originally posted by magnito_student
Believing a 757 hit the pentagon is more ludicrous than believing reptilians exist to be honest with ya.

Ever try to keep a 757 10-15ft off the ground at 300-400knots, pilots would laugh. Even if the plane came down at a steep angle there would not have been the deep penetration it created.

Who said he did it on purpose? He could have just tried to hit it and it happened that way. Plus, although the nose is light aluminum, thats not the only thing going through that hole, it could have caved in and the rest of the plane could have gone through.

Listen, if the government really wanted to do this, do you think they'd have so many little details that could seem like they did it?

Originally posted by magnito_student
Believing a 757 hit the pentagon is more ludicrous than believing reptilians exist to be honest with ya.

Ever try to keep a 757 10-15ft off the ground at 300-400knots, pilots would laugh. Even if the plane came down at a steep angle there would not have been the deep penetration it created.

What Do Reptilians Look Like?

One of the pilots summarized his experiences by stating, "This whole ground effect argument is ridiculous. People need to realize that crashing a plane into a building as massive as the Pentagon is remarkably easy and takes no skill at all. Landing one on a runway safely even under the best conditions? Now that's the hard part!" While he may have been exaggerating a bit for effect, he does raise a valid point that flying skillfully and safely is much more difficult than flying as recklessly as the terrorists did on September 11.

This a great article explained ,by aero space engineers, how GE is misstated, or unerstood, by many here. Hope this helps ya to see the "truth"!

www.aerospaceweb.org...

Hi Duhh.

:My apologies. Referenced wrong thread.

Any opinions on secondary or tertiary explosions inside the pentagon causing an interior
object to make that exit hole?

[edit on 7-8-2006 by nextguyinline]