Bush Policies Are Destroying Army, Marines

Because of the insanity of BushCo.'s policies (Iraq, Afghanistan), our ground forces are being destroyed. They have continually been unable to meet their quotas for recruitment. Because of this they have dropped the standards for recruits through the basement. This is a very bad situation and very dangerous for we Americans when these people come home and re-enter the civilian world. We're talking about gangbangers, white supremicists and criminals here being trained in weapons and explosives. It will take years (after Bush) to make things in the Army and Marine Corps right again.

Blowback From a Bad War
White supremacists, gangbangers get invaluable training in Iraq
By ROBERT C. KOEHLER
Tribune Media Services
August 3, 2006

And where is it that the Vice Lords meet the Aryan Nation? Why, in
Baghdad, of course - where, in one of the less obvious unanticipated consequences of W's disastrous war, potential domestic terrorists and "army of one" nutjobs are getting top-notch weapons instruction and plenty of target
practice.It's sure to come in handy when they get home.
www.commonwonders.com...

[p]I wonder, after reading a statement like that if you have served in the armed forces. I have and I can tell you that in my company every individual was a good man. There was not one that I would not invite to my home. The military teaches respect and above all a teamwork and camaraderie.[p]
[p]There are a few bad apples to be sure, and I am not going to defend the actions of some sorry ass individuals, who sneak by the normally vigilant drill instructors, but my company was my home and I take offence at your limited perspective. If you are afraid of gangs and white supremacist let the police do the job they were paid and trained for and stop whining. Too much freedom in a population as culturally diverse as the US is going to cause many problems for everyone. If every one would follow the rules like our parents should have taught us, things would be much better. [p]
[p]And about the recruitment issue, I very much doubt that it is as low as the media says. Don’t believe everything they say. I am 42 and if I was not a single dad I would be there now. That is why they raised the age limit, so people who are not afraid could go and serve the country they live in and love be it right or wrong. We still live here.[p]

I understand your views ECK you have been in the military.

My husband after 22 years as a Marine was able to see how it has change, from the time he joined to the time he retire.

Is not the same, the respect has been lost.

The quality of recruits has been over looked also.

Now as the time goes and soldiers has to endure longer deployment it will affect families and when they come back it will affect communities also.

I still remember when the first gulf war conflict how many soldiers comeback with mental problems and it was not even as bloodiest and dangerous as now.

Yes landshark, I served with the 101st Airborne Division.

I don't know when you served, but it is a very different Army than it was when I did (late 80s-early 90s). My friends were still on active duty through the 90s and my younger brother is getting out now.

It is a very different Army. As Marg said, and as my brother and good friend have described, there is a terminal breakdown in authority... that respect we once operated under has eroded to such a degree, its maddening they say.

I spent an unusually long period of time with my unit at Ft. Campbell, KY. We went through the Gulf War together. And they were like my family. I will never forget them. But I just have to laugh when people try and romantisize and heroicize our troops - sure there are a helluva lot great soldiers/people, but there are also a lot deviants, criminals and druggies in uniform. Especially now. They should be purged from the ranks. There is no way I would want to go to war with so many lunatics.

I often joke I was in the craziest unit in the Army during the war. We had quite a few "colorful" characters, to say the least. One sabotaged one of our own helcopters by putting a greneade in a fuselage, pin pulled, with masking tape around it. Thankfully another guy found it right before the tape wore off. I won't even say what some of our other guys were into. Other than, one was a master of the black market - in SAUDI, no less - and he secured some white lightning for my friend & I (musta came from ARAMCO). It was bottled as water. We got wasted..... good thing we didn't get busted by the Saudis!

Well then I thank you for your service to this country.
I also hope you were not offended by my remark; it’s just that you came off a little too critical in my opinion. I will tell you why so that you understand, and I will try not to go on too far.
My step dad used to emotionally berate me, and of course mom could do nothing about it. Living in the great outdoors so to speak, I had no friends, would get into fights almost every day at school, white boy minority, I became emotionally and physically tough.
Ran away bla, bla…
When I got to my unit there were some shall we say “undesirables,” and I would like to say that when you make an example of someone in front of his buddies you will gain his respect.
Anyway I never spent time in the brig, although I had to serve some extra duty, I would do it all over again if needed and they knew it.
Maybe you needed a couple of guys like me in your unit; by the way I was only an e-4 at the time.
You are 100% correct about respect, what these young people need to learn is life has consequences, and society has all but legislated it out of existence.
Peace to you my friend…

I hearya.

The breakdown of discipline and authority in the US military cannot be tolerated. Neither can the dictating of unlawful orders from the brass on down. All of this is happening. And all of this is destroying the Army and Marines. Two fighting forces that grew under Reagan and Bush to become the most lethal ground forces mankind has ever seen.

Rumsfeld is running them into the ground.

Cool. No more US army, no more war. Saves lives. Good for peace. What's the problem?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Cool. No more US army, no more war. Saves lives. Good for peace. What's the problem?

Uhuh, like the disappearance of the U.S. military would end all wars in the world. Seriously you have a narrow minded view.

ECK, you touched upon something that is far too politically incorrect to speak of. Good work, Screamin' Eagle.

The Persian Gulf War was an example of what a good military can do. On purely military terms, it was as good as wars and go and it was all due to the great leadership and superb training of the 1980s as it was also due to its high-tech nature and extreme combat power. That military no longer exists in any form.

I'm gonna sound silly for saying this, but Steven Green and the other accused soldiers are victims themselves. They were sent on a mission, an illegal, misguided mission, that our military and our society as a whole were totally unprepared for. Our government sent our guys off and literally abandonded them, leaving them at the mercy of diabolical corporations like Halliburton and hostile forces like the insurgents, with neither the mental aptitude or the technical training to handle such an environment. I'm not defending Steven Green, but considering what they were ordered to do, and not knowing how to do it, does it surprise anyone that he and the others eventually snapped? They're like orphans, forgotten and ignored by their parents and by society. They had to fight and when they fought, they fought against everyone.

I never thought I'd be saying this out loud, but shame on the U.S. government. Shame on every one of them. You sent our boys and girls to war and never looked back. Bastards.

I was going to stay out of this but I really have to put my 2 cents in. After the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union there was a lot of talk about scaling the size of the military back, (a good idea in my mind, ours is way too bloated and bloated does not necessiarly mean more efficent) and talk of a "peace dividend" as in tax refunds and breaks for what we were no longer spending on defense. I never got mine....did you? Like so many other ideas of its kind it was a scam used for votes. The Republicans at the time were in the forefront of this and indeed the military was scaled back some. Also at the same time (pushed by Cheney as sec. of defense) was a 2 pronged approach to one privatize as much as possible and two, to stop stockpiling supplies and do what is called point of purchase ordering...i.e. model the military after a large corporation like mal-warts. Two of the biggest dumb-ass ideas ever foisted upon the American public. Privatizing does not save money. Companies are in it to make a profit, and if the government contract isn't fat enough they will pad it. Can you say Halliburton? Besides being in the military is not just practicing your killing skills but a whole effort designed to create a full team player and it is done as much by scraping paint and KP as it is by war games. As for point of purchase, to not have a functional stock pile but to order things as they go along is the height of folly and you go into war less prepared than you normally would be. A shortage of battle armor in this war is a prime example. And while the republicans made hay blaming the Democrats and Clinton for this, it was their idea and one they pushed heavily for.

On top of this has been the Bush administrations push to eliminate as many veterans benefits as possible. If you do not believe me pick up any DAV magazine and read all about it.

Look at it this way we are fighting an insurgency/civil war of our own making in Iraq and a military action in Afghanistan and we are stretched to the limit. It takes at least 3 behind the lines to support 1 soldier in the field and forces are being used over and over again until they are exhausted. Monies have been wasted on all the wrong things like privatization (you already have the labor, called the grunt, it only makes economic sense to use him as fully as possible) far too elaborate and over priced weapons systems and the government, while busily making more veterans, grudges them every benefit it can. I know this I am a vet and I am up at the local hospital all the time and talk to other vets and hear the BS they have to go through to get what was promised them. Is it any wonder the forces are discouraged?

This has turned out to be a very interesting thread. Thanks to all who have chimed in and participated.

I want to react , in particular, to what SweatmondicaIdo had to say as well as Grover, who is a veteran.

Thx for the comments.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
ECK, you touched upon something that is far too politically incorrect to speak of. Good work, Screamin' Eagle.

Jus tryin to do my job, yo.

The Persian Gulf War was an example of what a good military can do. On purely military terms, it was as good as wars and go and it was all due to the great leadership and superb training of the 1980s as it was also due to its high-tech nature and extreme combat power. That military no longer exists in any form.

Would you believe that that surprised even us, on the ground? We were stunned when they said it was over. Going over there, we were thinkin we'd be there at least a year. And thot of rotations. Calling that op. desert storm was cosmic. That's what it was. Like BAM!

Credit to Reagan and his vision & patriotism.

I'm gonna sound silly for saying this, but Steven Green and the other accused soldiers are victims themselves. They were sent on a mission, an illegal, misguided mission, that our military and our society as a whole were totally unprepared for.

This is true, but he and his buddies should be tried for their crimes, just the same. My bigger concern is that those craven warmongering fools and daydreamers who sent those innocents on that fool's errand, would also be tried - for their warcrimes. The world won't spin right - not especially for the US Army and Marines, until this assault on justice is put down.

Our government sent our guys off and literally abandonded them, leaving them at the mercy of diabolical corporations like Halliburton and hostile forces like the insurgents, with neither the mental aptitude or the technical training to handle such an environment.

.

From day one I've been saying our troops are nothing but endless fodder for these madmen who stand to gain off these endless conflicts.

I never thought I'd be saying this out loud, but shame on the U.S. government. Shame on every one of them. You sent our boys and girls to war and never looked back. Bastards.

Shame on we the American people for not standing up enmasse and demanding an end to this bloody fiasco. Having funded it with our tax dollars, we are all culpable to many degrees.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo


The Persian Gulf War was an example of what a good military can do. On purely military terms, it was as good as wars and go and it was all due to the great leadership and superb training of the 1980s as it was also due to its high-tech nature and extreme combat power. That military no longer exists in any form.

Part of the success of the Persian Gulf war was the leadership of Colin Powell. He would only enter combat with over whelming force, and with a plan that would almost guarantee victory. Rummy and Co. disregarded General Shinseki when he wanted to use the same overwhelming force this time around. General Shinseki was a good soldier who was basically retired because he didn't agree with Rummy, it's sad to see many of these Generals serve so long and so bravely and then be thrown aside.

"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." - Will Durant

When I was about 26 I got a copy of Durants 11 volume "The Story of Civilization" via book of the month club, sat down and read the whole thing...took 2 years but I still look back at it as one of the best things I ever did for my mind.

Originally posted by grover
"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." - Will Durant

When I was about 26 I got a copy of Durants 11 volume "The Story of Civilization" via book of the month club, sat down and read the whole thing...took 2 years but I still look back at it as one of the best things I ever did for my mind.

Nice to know someone caught that. Its' so true.

And thx for the tip.

Credit to Reagan and his vision & patriotism.

I actually never liked Reagan or anything he stood for. I feel like he put the U.S. through a tightrope act until around 1988, he really seemed to do everything to ensure that the Soviet Union would start a war.

Can't say I necessarily "don't like" the guy, I just believe he was very overrated.

From day one I've been saying our troops are nothing but endless fodder for these madmen who stand to gain off these endless conflicts.

Our soldiers have gone from being extremely valuable resources to becoming fresh meat for the grinder. How does that happen??? Oh, I know, when the military-industrial complex sees endless opportunities for financial success and wealth.

America really learned all the wrong lessons from the Cold War.

Shame on we the American people for not standing up enmasse and demanding an end to this bloody fiasco. Having funded it with our tax dollars, we are all culpable to many degrees.

I agree with this too. We basically allowed the government to walk right over us. I actually commend the very active anti-war protesters now. They're practically protesting in enemy territory.

[edit on 12-8-2006 by sweatmonicaIdo]

On the thoughts of the current military is that, it is not the military is a bad thing. On the contrary, I think that the military is doing its job. I believe that the current adminstration and upper brass that has gone by the side and not taking responsibility for the actions of the troops under them. I can understand the problems what are coming out of Iraq these days, but my question is where is the comanding officers, and why are they not being held accountable? Most tend to dodge the bullet instead of standing up and supporting those that are under them. I refuse to believe that they did not know what was going on and to what extent.

Just my 2 cents.

The lack of accountability at the higher echelons of the civilian and military apparatus is beyond outrageous. Our soldiers follow orders and react to ever-increasing hostile situations the way any humans would - and it is they who are offered up as scapegoats.

Its time to start charging those from the top down with these crimes.

Excellent, post, ECK. I remember when I first joined, during the drawdowns. Standards went a little too high.

Now its in reverse. When I left, all standards were slipping in the military because of political correctness and other assorted madness. Our military has enough problems with degrading quality without having to flood it with the dregs and scum of the earth.

The only hope here is that in their military service, these people shape up and become normal, decent human beings and become cured of their terminal stupidity. If not, then I hope they are at least used as cannon fodder.

At the risk of stuping to the NeoClown level of hatred and retribution, allow me to share a recurring fantasy...

I would love to snatch Rummy, Dick "the gunslinger" Cheney, DUHbya, Condosleeza, Wolfowitz, et al and by turn, fly them into Baghdad or Fallujah, hover about 6 feet off the ground and kick their miserable arses out of my bird and onto the street below. I would hover long enuff to watch and time how quickly the people they have liberated would literally tear them limb from limb in outrage. It would make the Somalia debacle look like a warmup.

They deserve nothing less.