Iran mass producing chinese rockets to arm hezbollah

Many of the rockets Hezbollah is firing into Israel are made in Iran, demonstrating the Islamic republic's success in copying Chinese and Russian technology to build its own weapons industry.

The Shiite Muslim group's arsenal includes Iranian-built portable Katyusha rockets, Israeli Reserve Brigadier General Yossi Kuperwasser said. The militia also has Iran's Zelzal rocket, with a range of 120 miles, enough to reach Tel Aviv from south Lebanon, said Yaakov Amidror.

The conflict, which began three weeks ago, provides the first test for Iranian-made weaponry, giving the country an opportunity to show it can retaliate if attacked. To supply Hezbollah, Iran flies arms to Syria, where they're loaded on trucks and shipped into Lebanon under Syrian supervision.

Iran no longer relies on imports from China, Russia and North Korea for its weapons, said Guy Ben-Ari, a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. Instead, state aerospace and defense industries are copying and even improving on those countries' technologies.

link

But, how did chinese weaponry reach Iran in the first place ? This is also the first report i have seen of chinese stuff being copied and replicated. A case of china getting a taste of its own medicine ?

[edit on 4/8/06 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Considering most of the Chinese stuff is itself copied, what Iran is churning out is nothing but copies of already plagiarized stuff.

Comments like that are unnessary. If you cannot prove anything useful them stop posting useless threads to bash china. I already know your intention so stop whinning when i catch you out

Apart from indigenous anti-ship missiles china has given to iran, the rest of the missiles (AKA rockets) are of russian origin. Your article headline is mis-leading



EDIT: Image code

[edit on 4-8-2006 by chinawhite]

please get your facts right before u even consider posting. you just make yourself look dumb. iran does not make katusha rockets because they are over 65 years old and are highly innefective. and are of russian origin not chinese. and how is china getting a taste of its own medicine? that doesnt even make sence. iran has gotten contracts for some missiles from china and has the ability to reverse engineer others.

Originally posted by Diyako
please get your facts right before u even consider posting. you just make yourself look dumb.

from the link The Shiite Muslim group's arsenal includes Iranian-built portable Katyusha rockets

i would say that calling someone dumb who has produced a link is dumb. if the link is wrong then prove it. and if you want to start throwing insults around then go and find a new message board.

iran does not make katusha rockets because they are over 65 years old and are highly innefective. and are of russian origin not chinese.

what does age have to do with anything the b52 was first flown back in the early 50's and that is still going strong and will continue to do so for another 30 years or so.

and how is china getting a taste of its own medicine? that doesnt even make sence.

yes it does. the chinese are having their missiles wich were copied in the first place copied from another nation.

iran has gotten contracts for some missiles from china and has the ability to reverse engineer others.

please tell me the difference between copying chinese missiles and reverse engineering them. if i told my examiner i was reverse engineering someone elses work not copying what do you think he would say?

justin

Originally posted by justin_barton3
yes it does. the chinese are having their missiles wich were copied in the first place copied from another nation.

which missiles??????????

Originally posted by chinawhite
which missiles??????????

dunno mate.

i was just interpreting stealth spys original comment.

the bottom paragraph of the quote from the link applies though it isnt very specific.

justin

Originally posted by chinawhite

which missiles??????????

HQ-2 :

The HongQi-2 (HQ-2) is a long-range, medium- to high-altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) developed from the HQ-1, a Chinese copy of the Soviet Almaz S-75

www.sinodefence.com...

SY-1 :

The ShangYou-1 (SY-1) is a Chinese copy of the Soviet P-15 (SS-N-2 Styx) missile.

www.sinodefence.com...

PL-7

The PiLi-7 (PL-7) infrared-homing short-range air-to-air missile developed by Zhuzhou Aero-Engine Factory (ZAF) is a reverse-engineering copy of the French Magic R550.

www.sinodefence.com...

HJ-73 :

The HongJian-73 (HJ-73) is a Chinese copy of the Russian 9M14M Malutka (NATO codename: AT-3 Sagger) wire-guided anti-tank guided missile (ATGM), but fitted with a Chinese indigenous guidance system.

www.sinodefence.com...

Here are only a few - one of each kind. Anybody could dish out more if they wanted.

Sure, China may producing missiles today indigenously, but an argument that it has not reverse engineered missiles is grossly untrue.

It looks like Iran is doing to chinese weaponry, what China did to Russian & European stuff.

[edit on 5/8/06 by Stealth Spy]

BEHIND the Israel-Lebanon crisis is an extensive but little-known trade in increasingly sophisticated missiles that have the capacity to upset stability and the balance of power in conflict-prone areas of the world.

When a radar-guided cruise missile slammed into a naval gunboat helping enforce Israel's blockade of Lebanon last month, it was a shock. Neither Israel nor its main ally, the United States, knew that Hezbollah fighters had such a sophisticated weapon in their arsenal.

..how did the C-802 anti-ship cruise missile - rated by experts as among the most lethal in the world - get into Hezbollah's hands?

The supply trail runs from China to Iran and then into Lebanon, either by sea or over land via Syria. Iran and Syria are Hezbollah's allies of convenience against Israel and the US. China has used Israel as a military supplier in the past but has political and energy interests in Iran and Syria that now conflict with those of Israel.

The tale of the C-802 is a classic story about the dog-eat-dog nature of the global arms trade and the destabilising impact of weapons that are not effectively controlled by national regulation or international treaties and agreements. Iran started by importing C-802 cruise missiles from China. Since taking delivery of the C-802s, Iran has reportedly received help from China and North Korea to extend their range and improve their accuracy. Iran clearly feels it now has enough of the cruise missiles to send some to Hezbollah and provide the training needed to operate them successfully.

Full Article >> The Canberra Times

So China > Iran > Siriya > Hezbollah seems to be the route the missiles take as described in the article.

Apparently the same article also reads ...
The Kh-55 family of missiles is Russia's main nuclear-armed cruise missile launched from the air by strategic bombers. The missiles, exported in 2000 and 2001, were diverted from Soviet stocks left behind after Ukraine declared independence in 1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Twelve of the Kh-55SMs reportedly went to Iran, six to China and two to Pakistan. Iran is alleged to have paid nearly $US50million ($A65.5million) for its missiles. China and Pakistan, both declared nuclear powers, evidently wanted to strip the missiles to copy and incorporate its design, propulsion and guidance components into their own efforts to develop long-range cruise missiles - a process known as reverse engineering.

It is perhaps ironic that the proliferation of missile techology has been aided by Israel.

Just a few snippets...

In 1962 Israel began to develop the Jericho I based on the French MD-620. The first 14 missiles were actually manufactured in France. In 1977 Israel began to develop the longer ranged Jericho II. It is likely that some of the funding for this new system came from the Shah of Persia who had interests in the outcome for his own missile programme. The collapse of the Shah's regime in Teheran forced Israel to seek another partner - notably South Africa. The question is whether any of the skills and technologies were transferred to Iran prior to the overthrow of the Shah.

During the Iran / Iraq war, Iran managed to get Scuds from Libya and Syria. Iran collaborated with North Korea to produce the Hwasong 5 class which were then used in the Iran / Iraq conflict.

The complex web of co-operation ties in China, North Korea, Iran, although Libya has apparently left that particular club.

On and on we go... North Korea's No Dong 2 missile has become the base design for Iran's Shahab 3 and Pakistan's Ghauri or Hatf 5 rocket.

So, the supply train to Hezbollah spans continents and I concur with Stealt Spy on this very important point.

Regards

Originally posted by paraphi
It is perhaps ironic that the proliferation of missile techology has been aided by Israel.

Yes indeed. Infact the chinese C-802 cruise missile that destroyed an Israeli naval vessel last month might well have been a result of Israel's former actions :

China is accused to have recieved cruise missile help from Israel. Here is more ..

REPORTED AREA OF MISSILE-RELATED ASSISTANCE TO CHINA FROM ISRAEL :

Assistance in cruise missile development:
--YF-12A
--YJ-62
--YJ-92

--Sharing of technology of Israeli land-attack cruise missile based on Star-1 attack drone (Beijing is contributing financially to missile's development) (1995)
--Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation equipment (1991)
--Assistance in improving guidance of M-9 and DF-3 (CSS-2) ballistic missiles
--US Patriot anti-missile system technology:
--Guidance and propulsion technology (in return for information on M-9 and M-11 ballistic missiles)
--Reportedly used to develop countermeasures against Patriot for China's ballistic and cruise missiles
--US Python-3 air-to-air missiles (AAMs)
--UAV "Harpy" anti-radar drones (2002)

www.nti.org...

These things may not be officially announced and formally declared but the allegations are certainly indications.

The complex web of co-operation ties in China, North Korea, Iran, although Libya has apparently left that particular club.

Yes, Pakistan is pretty deeply involved in the nexus as well. And it also extends into centrifuges & associated systems for enriching fissile material as well.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
HQ-2 :

What does the indigenous HQ-2 have to do with hezbollah???????

Apart from that, the HQ-1 was a soviet suppiled and produced weapon under a chinese designation, the HQ-2 was suppose to be the chinese produced one under license but cina only recieved the motors and body manfacturing factories instead of the guidence which had to be developed itself

SY-1

I do believe they used captured iraqi/soviet missiles as well as imported chinese missiles to do development work with. It you notice they missiles do not feature the same guidence as the chinese silkworm which would suggest they copied the more simplistic soviet missiles

And as it stands not silkworms have been found with hezbollah

PL-7

And any country in the middle east is producing the Magic missile or the PL-7 WHICH WAS PRODUCED UNDER LICENSE in china???. And please tell me which hezbollah airforce fighter is able to use the magic in one of their numerous planes?

HJ-73

The missiles hezbollah have recieved are from syria not iran. Same with the komet missiles and most other weaponary they have recieved.

but an argument that it has not reverse engineered missiles is grossly untrue. It looks like Iran is doing to chinese weaponry, what China did to Russian & European stuff.

Apart from the..., hold that thought.

I dont see any chinese missile reverse engineered from any other missile.

All soviet era missiles where covered under the numerous treaties being signed and the western missiles were done under a production contract

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Full Article >> The Canberra Times

LOL... Canberra times. nuff said.


Now lets look at your source

This is false information and other speculation being put in as actual fact

-BELARUS
* MAZ mobile launcher six-axle chassis (same design as launcher for former Soviet SS-20)

Even though that picture of the TEL was a fair distance away from a camera shot. It was never confirmed to havve been taken in china nor has any SS-20 lanuched been deployed in china nor has anymore pictures "re-surfaced". Once more adding speculation as proof



Israel
--YF-12A

There is no YF-12 missile. the only reference to this missiles was a possible development project looking for funds at a chinese arms show. Yet again, speculation on a missile which has not even reported to have funds being on their list of "developments.

--YJ-62

Even though china had been producing rocket engines and a very similar guidence for its C-801 missile it still refers to israel for its "non-existant" capbility to help china in anti-ship missile guidence or its rocket motor since israel has no missile in the class of the C-803 nor do they have a indigenoius produced missile which has nearly the capbility of the C-803 for them to help in the 280km range YJ-62

--YJ-92

There is no such thing as the YJ-92 in any chinese missile reference. There is a possible YJ-91 which is a licensed produced KH-31P but that is a russian project with no israeli help. Another example of them putting in some random numbers to suggest something that wasn't

---US Patriot anti-missile system technology:

This is a good one, just because china has a Patriot performace like missile it surely is a copy or has some of the Patriot system inside. Just like the S-300 which is said to be a copy of the Patriot as well even though it started development even before the Patriot was even in development. The other examples are licensed produced in china and the harpy has been imported and not copied but needed as a booast in capbility.



RUSSIA

---- Marketing of Raduga Kh-65SE air-launched missile

Russia has been accused of marketing a missile LOL . anyone say "space filler"?. Come on really, they have absolutly nothing on this deal and has based this bit on a rumour russia was marketing cruise missiles

----SS-N-19 anti-ship missile

And we as yet to see a shipwreak missile in chinese service. They are begining to name almost all missiles of the former soviet union as possible imports instead of having actual proof of any missile transactions. To say the least, these missiles are almost useless without a nuclear warhead which china does not intend to use

-----Three RD-170 engines for Zenit SLV

Yes, the mythical RD-170 engines. Denied once, denied twice and denied a third time but still the report persist. I am just wondering if this website knows the stragtic risk to russia of selling "the most powerful engines in the world" to china would ahve done in 1992/3??. Seriously, when russian media said there was no sale because of those risk, there was no sale because of the reasons they stated. Maybe they forgot the cold war had just recently finished and for almost 40 years, 2 million troops were positioned on the border

--Assistance in development of anti-ship missiles

And which anti-ship missile in chinas arsenal is linked to china. Bar the moskit and klub and none of these missiles have any russian assitance. Just because russia makes ridiculously long range missiles doesn't mean china needs any help from russia to make the same missiles only suitble for a nuclear weahead

The rest of the missiles and systems are already known and was a boost of capbility instead of something to use and improve your designs on



UNITED KINGDOM
* Missile engines:
--Digital engine controls for K-8 jet trainer

The UK helped in make a FACEC system for the K-8 trainer AIRCRAFT and it gets labled in the missile engine section?. strange dont you think?. Paraniod is the most likey aner to this

The US is a no-brainer, and im not going to bother with dual-use technology because its senseless to debate whether a computer is a weapon or not. Allegations stay allegations simply because there is no edvidence. Pure speculation from sources like this. I love their areas on chinas missile arsenal and nuclear arsenal. They did not write this but reported it anyway

He writes that "Ten years down the road. . . the Chinese nuclear arsenal. . . may grow from today's 20 ICBMs (with warhead yields in the megaton range) to perhaps 50 or 100 ICBMs

EDIT: Highlighted all names instead of two

[edit on 5-8-2006 by chinawhite]

Arr...this is not the first time stealth spy post things against china or try to make some stuff up.
Isral didn't reach its military goal and it should zease fire asap coz already enough civilian died and this war should not happen on other country's terrotery. afterwall war is sad. don't know what stealth is thinking all the day don't u feel tired? or some chinese insaluted u years ago u can't let it pass?

you to resurface only when stealth spy posts on china, taobo33..
41 ATS points after 2 years is a little wanting don't you think?

Originally posted by Daedalus3
you to resurface only when stealth spy posts on china, taobo33..

He actually is in the polictical area and i suspect he only reads peoples post instead of actually being involved in the main discussion. Check his profile, he has 96 post

Check this out :

Chinese officials did not deny that a Chinese made missile was used during a Hezbollah attack on an Israeli warship last month, U.S. Senator Arlen Specter, R-Penn., said in Beijing on Friday.

Last month, Hezbollah fired a cruise missile that came from Iran at an Israeli warship off the coast of Lebanon, according to press reports.

"Representatives of the National People's Congress said that there was a condition on the sales of missiles, like the one China sold Iran, that it would not be transferred," Specter said.

www.interfax.cn...

That makes things clearer. So much for the "LOL"ing of the report from australian source

Whats the difference between "does not" and "has not"

Your headline is incomplete contrast to the actual edvidence