Fidel feels fine......bummer

just because he "feels fine" does not exactly mean he is fine. for all we know the surgeons are crooked and planted a timed explosive next to his gal bladder?!

Grady, its good to hear you're not paying attention to Fox "news" anymore. I guess that's a start.

There are far simpler ways of entering a new period of relations with Cuba than by force, stealth or overt. If we could enter a new partnership with Vietnam there's no reason we shouldn't be able to work things out in Cuba.

Old habits die hard, though. On both sides.

[edit on 8/6/06 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid


There are far simpler ways of entering a new period of relations with Cuba than by force, stealth or overt.



[edit on 8/6/06 by EastCoastKid]

Amen, Chico. It should be done when that window opens up (soon i hope) .

Chica, we are in full agreement.

Won't that be a great day? We should have an ATS party on Cuba! OLE!

When Castro first became the leader and spokesman for the Cuban Revolution, he was welcomed in the US. Then, when it was revealed that Cuba was going to 1) nationalize the American industries and 2) throw the Mafia out of Havana it all went sour “up here.” Castro made the Dulles Brothers - Foster, the Sec of State and Allen the CIA head - doubly mad and Ike was soon to follow.

In retaliation and no doubt planning to both “teach” Castro and which would not be lost on others, a lesson on how to respect your superiors, the Dulles Brothers with the blessing of Ike, hatched and planned the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Well, it was not a fiasco until actually put into play.

JFK was a (heroic) junior officer in WW2 who no doubt held the indubitable 5 star general of the European Theater in high esteem if not in awe. When he was told of the Bay of Pigs - it was said Ike whispered it to him on the ride to the swearing in - JFK had no reservations and never thought of overruling Ike.

Again, and worse, the Dulles Brothers who invented the domino plan, had also got the US into South Vietnam, and yet again, JFK felt obliged to “go along to get along” with those who knew more than he, or so he thought.

Instead of killing the counter revolutionaries as has happened so often in the past, Castro - perhaps because of his good Catholic upbringing - let the naysayers, the exploiters, and the hypocrites leave the country, just the same as we had done at the close of our own War of Independence, sans their property. That is pretty much SOP in revolutions.

Those well-to-do types hopped over to Miami and after a bit of good luck, ensconced themselves into the Republican Party's plans to capture Florida. No, F/F, unlike the Archbishop of Santiago the Virgin did not tell them to get ready for the coming 2000 election.

Then, when the Ruskies moved about 200 nukes and an equal number of medium range missiles to Cuba, we got mad as hell! And we’re still mad. Even though we have gone through LBJ, RMN, GF, JC, RR, B41, C-OK and now over half the way through B43, we’re still mad.

Seeing the futility and failure of our own shoot-in-the-foot diplomacy, we are ready to undo the gloomy past if the right event occurs, so we can save face - I thought that was peculiarly an oriental shortcoming - and it looks as if the death of Fidel is going to be it. Although I don’t believe in the efficacy of prayer, I have sent money to various religious orders to pray for Fidel’s full and quick recovery. I have offered to double my donations if Fidel lives until Jan. 21, 2009. Pat Robertson and Richard Roberts among others have sent emissaries asking just how much money am I talking about. More on this later.

We have practiced cruel and unusual diplomacy on 11 million Cubans for 47 years. Let’s hope all of us are not going to have to do time in Purgatory for this sin against nature.


[edit on 8/6/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite

When Castro first became the leader and spokesman for the Cuban Revolution, he was welcomed in the US.

Bingo!!!! it seems that US has a lot to do when it comes to applaud and tag countries when they do not go the way it's expected or just jeopardizes US Interest.

Venezuela ring a bell, Iran after taking down the Sha of Iran, It seems that his son is ready to go back and come back from exile in the US as soon as a regime change takes away the theocracy in that country, how about Palestine new hamas elected government lets not forget how Saddam went from friend to foe.

Hypocrisy all it.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by marg6043]

Interesting post, Donwhite.

Very measured. Yeah, based on what I do know, that's pretty much how it went down. 'Course I am no expert on Cuba. And I will not say Castro hasn't hurt a lot of innocent people.

I have respect for my expatriate Cuban friends and their experiences and wisdom on the issue.

We need to all put our prayers and heads together and work towards a peaceful transition in Cuba to what all want. Freedom. Prosperity. Independence.

And friendship.

I sound like the world's most boring and calm Republican.

War and violence is NOT the answer to anything. I am so tired of all that. And I used to be a hopeless hawk on Defense.

I pray to God the warmongers are routed from congress and the executive by 2008.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Before I say anything about Fidel and Cuba, I want to note this disclaimer: I understand and have no illusions about Fidel. I know he has been very brutal with his opposition. I do not support that.

But then again, are Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld any better? NO.

This statement requires some support. How does the Bush administration resemble the Castro regime?

I just ran across an an article on the Editor and Publisher website that supports one of the points I made. I am a journalist in the MSM. E&P is an industry standard, for anyone who is unaware of them.

This article I will post illustrates how the Bush administration resembles Castro's policy toward the media. It may not be Castro-level, but its not for a lack of trying. I hope you will read this Grady, and consider it. We are talking about freedom of our press and the necessity of it in a Democracy.

Journalism Educators Ask White House to Abandon 'Anti-Press Policies'
By E&P Staff
Published: August 05, 2006 10:55 AM ET

NEW YORK Attendees at the annual convention of the Association for Education in Journalism and Mass Communication (AEJMC) in San Francisco on Friday passed a resolution condemning "anti-press policies" taken by the Bush administration in recent years.
www.editorandpublisher.com...

posted by EastCoastKid

I sound like the most boring and calm Republican. War and violence is NOT the answer to anything. I am so tired of all that. I pray to God the warmongers are routed from Congress and the Executive by 2008. [Edited by Don W]

Not being a religious person, Mr ECK, I remind us both of the Reagan warning, “Trust but verify!” Translated: Go to the polls. For me, I’m voting by absentee ballot. You only have to tell a white lie to get one and it’s easier than going to the polls.

As to the second issue you raised, the November 7 election. Democrats are still swimming in a pool of raw ****, half of their own making. The Dems really do want to disavow the Iraq war, yet they are frightened this will be misunderstood by the voters as being 1) soft on terror and 2) failing to back our men and women in uniform fighting and dying at the front. Dems think 527s took Ohio from them. They don't want to let that happen again.

If the majority of Congressional Democrats had a consistent voting record against the excesses of the Iraq War, they could expect to get away with it. OTOH, they don’t have such a record. Just the opposite. So here we sit, doing a re-run of the 1968 election in my opinion. Nixon offered peace but gave us war, and HHH offered us war but I believe - in my heart of hearts - he would have given us peace and quickly.

And I used to be a hopeless hawk on Defense. There are simpler ways of entering a new period of relations with Cuba than by force, stealth or overt. If we could enter a new partnership with Vietnam there's no reason we shouldn't be able to work things out in Cuba. [Edited by Don W]

This War on Terror since the Nine Eleven Event has shown the world that 12 supercarriers, 6,000 nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them do not a super power make. The futility of it all reminds me of the observation made by J Robert Oppenheimer at the Trinity test in New Mexico, quoting from the Hindu book, Bhagavad Gita, when the imaginary creature Vishnu says, “Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.” Q. Is Bush43 Vishnu?

Because 80% of our Federal deficits are defense related - social security and medicare have been and still are in the black - and our annual interest payment is close to $400 billion, and if you add the cost of the VA and of pensions, and the off-budget Wars in Iraq and Afghan, we are spending close to $1 T. a year on war. And since 1991, we have found no worthy enemy! 15 years of world peace and we are spending as if we were going to die tomorrow.

What is wrong with our people? Is this the confirmation of the propaganda theory of tell a big lie and tell it often and it will become the truth, as espoused by J Goebbels? Victims of our own propaganda?



[edit on 8/6/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite


What is wrong with our people? Is this the confirmation of the propaganda theory of tell a big lie and tell it often and it will become the truth, as espoused by J Goebbels? Victims of our own propaganda?

Donwhite, there is no truer statement. Our citizenry has been fed a big bad bill of goods. Thanks to the mainstream media, of which I myself am a part of. (I do what I can where I can.)

Case in point: Bush: we must disarm Iraq of its WMD. Fact: none existed other than in the minds of trigger happy NeoCons drunk on power and $$.

Originally posted by donwhite
J Robert Oppenheimer at the Trinity test in New Mexico, quoting from the Hindu book, Bhagavad Gita, when the imaginary creature Vishnu says, “Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.”

The most famous quote ever spoken at a nuclear test is actually a misquote or a bad translation from the Bhagavad Gita. The closest english translation I have found for that passage is used as my signature. The real quote is spoken by the ultimate personality of god (what monotheists would, incorrectly, call the only God) and not just some imaginary creature like jesus.

Jon

[edit on 8.6.2006 by Voxel]

posted by Voxel

The most famous quote ever spoken at a nuclear test is actually a misquote or a bad translation from the Bhagavad Gita. The closest English translation I have found for that passage is used as my signature. The real quote is spoken by the ultimate personality of God (what monotheists would, incorrectly, call the only God) and not just some imaginary creature like Jesus. Jon
[Edited by Don W]

The paucity of capitalization in your writing Mr V, reminds me of e e cummins. Whose writings I do not care for. You, OToH, offer an interesting insight into the problems of putting Hindu into English. Thanks.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Case in point: Bush: we must disarm Iraq of its WMD. Fact: none existed other than in the minds of trigger happy NeoCons drunk on power and $$.

If you only knew the real issue of those WMD's, but this isn't the place for such a topic, as you said, don't believe everything you hear in the media. Thanks.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
If you only knew the real issue of those WMD's, but this isn't the place for such a topic, as you said, don't believe everything you hear in the media. Thanks.

Please do not leave us in the dark I will love to know what do you know about the elusive Saddam MWDs.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Case in point: Bush: we must disarm Iraq of its WMD. Fact: none existed other than in the minds of trigger happy NeoCons drunk on power and $$.

If you only knew the real issue of those WMD's, but this isn't the place for such a topic, as you said, don't believe everything you hear in the media. Thanks.

I'm sorry.. please share your hot information with us.

This is definitely the place to be heard.

This thread is definitely not the place for it, nor do I have some reason to actively try and convince you otherwise, so again, don't believe everything you hear in the media, the "news" and net aren't the only sources of information, real people who might know a bit more are much more reliable. Again thanks.

posted by EastCoastKid

I am no expert on Cuba. I will not say Castro hasn't hurt a lot of innocent people. I have respect for my expatriate Cuban friends. We need to all put our prayers and heads together and work towards a peaceful transition in Cuba to what all want. Freedom. Prosperity. Independence. And friendship. [Edited by Don W]

Sounds great, ECK, but it also rings of some of the American Old Time Religion.

Look, ECK, Cuba is socialized country with socialized medicine. No millionaire doctors or nursing home operators or hospital magnates or drug company scions of wealth. When you say you are going to help Cuba get “Freedom-Prosperity-Independence” are you going to bring back Pay First For Service medicine? Are you about to repeal the “Right To Health Care” Cubans enjoy and which American do not? Deny access to 30% of the Cubans?

Does “Freedom-Prosperity-Independence” mean no minimum wage, no OSHA for workers, no pension for the old, no ERA for women, no EPA for our children’s health not to speak of our own?

Does your “Freedom-Prosperity-Independence” include Free day care for working parents. Free K-14 education for all children?

Does “Freedom-Prosperity-Independence” mean gambling casinos in Havana, prostitutes and drugs, loan sharking, extortion, perhaps run by the experts, the Mafia? Corruption of the police and local governments.

Does this mean the R&Fs will take the seaside sites for their golf corses and confine the Poor and Poorer into ghettoes as we do in the United States. Our famous “inner cities.”

A stable government, a safe neighborhood, a shared experience may be better than too much “Freedom-Prosperity-Independence”

Let’s be sure we offer them something better then they have. And let them choose, and not try to cram it down their throats while American Sugar sues for lost profits, and etc.



[edit on 8/6/2006 by donwhite]

Instead of killing the counter revolutionaries as has happened so often in the past, Castro - perhaps because of his good Catholic upbringing - let the naysayers, the exploiters, and the hypocrites leave .....


Don- go to Miami and tell this to any Cuban, i dare you. I triple dare you. You, sir, speak big words, but know nothing about Cuba, Castros upbringing or anything.
You strike me as someone who detests Cubans. Your intellectual rhetoric is off, to say the least. You do not impress me. You sir, KNOW NOTHING about Cuba and those so called hypocrites that had to leave. You do nothing but insult Cubans and you sympathise with Castro. Lets see...what does that make you?????

Castro, a good Catholic upbringing??? Oh, yea. That's why he is the one people have to worship and call "father"

I dont know what makes you an expert in Cuba, perhaps you should tell us your background, other than what you may be copying and pasting from a source that has it all wrong.

As usual, you wont reply to my comments. THIS tells me you'd rather not discuss anything with a CUBAN- a hypocrate. Is that right?

dgtempe

We are not denying that Castro is a dictator and that under his regime people has suffered.

But the reality is that if Cuba is set free, big interest, corporate greed and opportunist will take over and the population will become the slaves of the so call progress that would be pushed to their beaches and neighborhood.

In the name of progress Cubans in Cuba will still have nothing but a job to go and work for the big corporate elite that will take over their Island while paying whatever will be allowed to be pay for services taking into consideration that Cuba is no property of the US.

I have seen it in my own island dj, after 19 years my Island beaches has been exploited taken and most areas are only available to millionaires that can afford million dollars homes with a beach view because the beaches are full of hotels.

I didn't like what I saw and I am still trying to figure out how it happen, how PR has allowed this to happen to the Island all in the name of jobs and progress.

But the jobs are still on the minimum wage and still will no enough for families to get away from welfare.

Then we have to deal with illegal immigrants flooding the Island from Santo Domingo, Haiti and now even China.

Is that what Cubans Americans want their Island to be turned into after Castro death and liberation?

Will that kind of life under a regime of corporate greed is better?

Let’s be sure we offer them something better then they have. And let them choose, not cram it down their throats while American Sugar sues for lost profits, and etc.

You know that once they get their way is not going to happen, the Cubans in cuba will the last ones to have a say in the matter.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by marg6043]