Homosexuality and Sexual Deviance

Deviating

to depart from an established course or norm

link

Now I feel using the above definition Homosexuality can be considered sexually deviant. My hypothesis is that the main reason for homosexuality not being accepted by many is that there may be a feeling that due to one deviance that they are more likly to be involved in other sexually deviant activitys such as rape (althoe due to its violent nature I dont feel this would hold any weight) , incest, pedophilia ect. Now my questions would be is their and studys linking any sexual deviant action to an increased liklyhood of more sexually deviant actions? Really curious, also my apologies to those offended this is in no way meant to slander you, I only seek to explore certain cultural stand points as to why homosexuality is something that is not generally excepted.

Homosexuals have been around since the human species has been. So I would think that "to depart from an established course or norm" doesn't apply. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah goes a long way to instilling fear of gays imo.

As for sexual deviation the MAJOR contributor(by a long shot) to this activity are straight males.

Edit: "in" exchanged for "of".

[edit on 29-7-2006 by intrepid]

I was thinking in terms of the vast majority. You have a point, but rape, incest, pedophilia have also been around for just as long yet I would still consider them deviant. Anyhow substitute deviant for whatever appropriate term you will I think you still understand the point.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
I was thinking in terms of the vast majority. You have a point, but rape, incest, pedophilia have also been around for just as long yet I would still consider them deviant. Anyhow substitute deviant for whatever appropriate term you will I think you still understand the point.

See, this is where we differ. I don't consider homosexuality deviant. Different, sure. Not deviant. It exists in all forms of nature.

As I said previously, those forms of TRUELY devient behaviour(rape, incest, pedophilia) are mostly committed by STRAIGHT MALES.

ok few quickies, do you consider rape, incest, petophilia, ect deviant? and also Strait males may (seems rational to me) be responsible for the majority of these things, but my question was in reguard to the percentages as far as is the percentage noticably higher in gay males that strait males for these acts? If you have numbers and sources I'd appreciate it.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
ok few quickies, do you consider rape, incest, petophilia, ect deviant? and also Strait males may (seems rational to me) be responsible for the majority of these things, but my question was in reguard to the percentages as far as is the percentage noticably higher in gay males that strait males for these acts? If you have numbers and sources I'd appreciate it.

I have already stated that rape, incest and pedophilia are devient.

It's higher in gay males? I LOVE to see the stat's on that.

Sorry mate, you're the one making the statement, back it up with facts. I'm sure I'll be able to refute them. Facts are just facts.

BTW, I'm straight, with 3 kids.

I havent stated any facts my original post was one seeking information, also why would you consider rape, incest, pedophilia, ect as sexually deviant but you dont see homosexuality not sexually deviant.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
I havent stated any facts my original post was one seeking information, also why would you consider rape, incest, pedophilia, ect as sexually deviant but you dont see homosexuality not sexually deviant.

Originally posted by intrepid
See, this is where we differ. I don't consider homosexuality deviant. Different, sure. Not deviant. It exists in all forms of nature.

As I said previously, those forms of TRUELY devient behaviour(rape, incest, pedophilia) are mostly committed by STRAIGHT MALES.

I bolded the pertainent part.

Interesting post, we have here.

So, the arguement is that "homosexuality is deviant". It's an interesting theory, because you're looking into the aspects of deviance. Of course, you make a basic mistake though - you use a dictionary, instead of a sociologicaly theory. Language, changes over time and as such when dealing with something such as homosexuality it is hard to use a contemporary word to argue against it but I can play ball with this.

So let us take this on the sociologica view:
Deviance, as defined by Sociology in Focus is:
"behaviour which goes against conventional norms and generally accepted valies." Then goes on to say: "...deviance is behaviour which most people would regard as inappropriate, or more strongly, as unacceptable and wrong."

This text book, is what's used to teach 16 to 18 year olds. So the definition is very basic but good for this arguement. Now, of course we have to operationalise the concenpt of a norm. The book goes on to state a norm as: "is a rule that is socially enforced".

So all of a sudden, deviance becomes less of a bad thing.

To make it out to be simple: Deviance, is a action taken by a group or individual which many in society do not agree with.

So now, you need to identify if deviance is a bad thing. The consensus within Society at present, is it isn't. AS E. Durkheim pointed out with the book: "Society of Saints" - if there were no deviants, then nothing would ever change. Society would be riggid and as time went on, things which are seen as mild levels of deviance - such as burping in a restaurant would begin to be treated as murder because nobody would ever be commiting actions any worse.

However, there is another way to look at this. By the use of the true definition of deviance - you yourself could be classed as one. You, yourself would be a deviant like these "homosexuals" and that's not very nice to be labelled as such now is it?

Let's move on to your other issues:
Pedophilia: Socially Constructed
Rape: Tresspass to the person.
Incest: Creates freeky children with six toes.

However, each of these have been deviant and non-deviant at different points of time. Rape, up till the late 1980's you could rape your wife. Incest? Legal in many parts of the World. Pedophilia? Age limits on consenting sex differ between parts of the World.

So how do you define these as a static level of deviant? Easy. You've been socialised by agencies - Government, parents, maybe church, to believe such things. However, in reality there is only one true type of deviance and that is someone who harms another without their consent.

If people, decide they wish to be homosexual, bisexual, asexual or any other type of sexual as long as their is consent what business is it of yours? They don't force you to watch them on T.V. nor do they force you to read about them nor do they make you look at them. If you have to stare, there is a problem within yourself and not them and it is something you might want to see a doctor about.

Word of advice: Don't throw terms like deviant around, when your level of understand is that of a very early teenager on the issue.

Good point, but rape seems to also be something that happens regurally, as much so as I might consider it the norm for some animals. Also I have never read anything which has shown that animals will not have sex with another member of its species after it has came through puberty. However even after puberty it is still seen as pedophilia for a 35 yr old to have sex with a 13 yr old. Dogs hump eachother all the time it doesn't matter if they are family or not, thus incest. So how is this different from gay animals? also I found some statistics althoe they do come from a biased source the studys the source gets them from do not seem to be.

· A study on pedophilia in the Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa reported: "According to the literature, findings of a two-to-one ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles have been documented."

Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

source

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
However even after puberty it is still seen as pedophilia for a 35 yr old to have sex with a 13 yr old.

Originally posted by Odium
Many parts of Europe, Asia and the America's has age limits in the low-teens. Take for example, Algeria. It has no strict laws on the Age of Consent. Austria is 14. Bosnia-Herzegovina is 14. Bulgaria is 14. Denmark is 15. France is 15.

Thread is here and as pointed out, 13 is legal in parts of Japan.

Please, read over what I said. It might help you before you go posting links.

First off I in no way said this to be true, I was seeking information and tryed to term everything as accuartly as possible so no need to become insultive.

Word of advice: Don't throw terms like deviant around, when your level of understand is that of a very early teenager on the issue.

attacking others doesn't help an issue.

Now back to the topic ok so you have a GREAT point about deviance being a cultural thing. So now I have something else to explore based on the statistics provided. If Homosexuality was the norm example being 51% of population is gay and therefor a majority. Would the statistics change where staits would be unproportionally represented? As far as that the people who contribute to the current over representation of gays involved in pedophilia are not so much gay as they are just deviants.

Please, read over what I said. It might help you before you go posting links.

My links were to statistice directly linking gay males to over representing pedophiles, so what you said doesn't seem to mean much in relation to it.

The only reason why homosexuality is "deviant" is because people make it that way. Black people were deviant when they were first sent everywhere around the world. Most of the things people consider deviant, are in fact normal, it is just people don't accept that (hence making them deviant). Not saying everything being normal is good though (such as pedophilia).

A better topic to start is asking if "Pedophilia is normal/natural or is it learned".

The problem is, how you define it.

Homosexual rape, might be as much down to the label placed upon them and the social stigma. There's an old sociological, theory that if we go around treating people a set way after so long they begin to act that way. So, do we begin to force homosexuals to be deviant? Furthermore, is it right to punish innocent people for the acts of the guilty?

Take domestic abuse. I can check my books, to find a theory that claims domestic abuse is lower in same-sex relationships. So should heterosexuals be punished for the acts of others? Furthermore, statics on such issues are hard to use. Rape, incest, so on and so fourth are under reproted. It is that these are more likely to be reported if done by same sex people or is this not the case?

Originally posted by ProjectChaos

· A study on pedophilia in the Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa reported: "According to the literature, findings of a two-to-one ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles have been documented."

Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

source

Ok, thanks for making my point.

The problem here is the religious connotations to homosexuallity. There are many philosophies that have NO problem with being gay. Christianity is not one of them.

Odium some very good points, I dont think that all gays should be punished for the actions of a few, hence why I wanted to start the subject. If you'll look at my last post you'll see what I want to get at, that it is my beleif that some people who take part in gay sex do not do so because they are attracted to the same sex but that they take part in it because they are attracted to the idea of being deviant.

Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos

Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

You forgot this part of the quote:

Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses.

I wonder why. Hmm.