Thracian Finds

There have been several finds that have occured in the last two weeks, of Thracian Towns, that are being uncovered, and pointing to the rich history of the region.

In Central Bulgaria, and North Western Turkey, two towns are being uncovered, which are giving teams items to speculate on the influence of Thrace in the Region.

See the following for review.

UPDATED: 09:48, July 10, 2006
Bulgarian archaeologists uncover ancient Thracian city
english.people.com.cn...

Archaeologists have uncovered an ancient Thracian town in Karlovo Municipality in Central Bulgaria, local media reported on Sunday.

Initial estimates dated it to the 5th century B.C.,

Reports said that the ancient Thracian town may prove to be one of the most important sites in the history of Bulgarian archaeology and to provide valuable information about the life of Thracians in the region.

And this site in Bulgaria is already being looked upon as a Tourism Destination for those coming to the Region.

DISCOVERERS OF THRACIAN VILLAGE IN BULGARIA APPLY FOR STATE FINANCING
11:31 Mon 10 Jul 2006
www.sofiaecho.com...

The archaeologists who recently discovered a Thracian village applied for state financing for the excavations, planning to make the village a cultural tourism destination.

Archaeologists re-covered a fortress stone wall, the foundations of the king's palace and unique decorated gilt tiles. The utensils used for import of Mediterranean wine proved that the king had sufficient political and economical power to trade with the Greek cities.

It will be interesting to see what King, was the Ruler of this Fortress

And in Turkey, Heraion Teichos has been found, dating back to 2000 BC.

UPDATED: 08:44, July 21, 2006
Archaeologists unveil ancient Thracian city in northwestern Turkey
english.people.com.cn...

Archaeologists have unveiled part of an ancient Thracian city dating back to 2000 B.C. in Turkey's northwestern of Tekirdag, local media reported on Thursday.

The excavation team of Turkey's Mimar Sinan University's Archaeology Department has been working for six years to unearth the ancient city named Heraion Teichos, which is located near Tekirdag's Karaevli village, according to the reports.

Both of these finds, seem to giving up excellent artifacts, showing a Once Influencial People.

And in Bulgaria again, a stunning Temple dating back to 2000 BC has been found in Perperikin, which is being described as 5 Times the size of the Acropolis.

Bulgaria Unearths Acropolis-Rivalling Ancient Sanctuary
Lifestyle: 20 July 2006, Thursday.
www.archaeologynews.org...
(This link May not work due to subscriptions)

Bulgarian archaeologists have continued their amazing streak at the ancient sanctuary of Perperikon, unearthing a temple five times larger than Athens' Acropolis.

A bronze cross containing relics of the Holly Cross was also discovered at the site close to the southern city of Kurdzhali, and is the first preserved woodchip from Jesus' cross found in Bulgaria.

The Acropolis-rivalling temple dates back to the Bronze Age and is the biggest on the Balkans. The whole complex is spread over 7.5 square kilometres and covers the whole Perperikon peak. People came to pray at that spot for a period of over 2,000 years, archaeologists believe.

The complex is checkered with metallurgy workshops and the team discovered many awls, and axe moulds. The discovery represents a success for the archaeologists because it is the first complex of its kind ever found on the Balkan Peninsula. The only site that resembles it has been uncovered at the Island of Crete.

Finders of the bronze cross were thrilled as well, as it dates back to the IX or X century A.D. Its sacred contents were very well preserved, because it was hermetically sealed. The cross, bearing Jesus' image on the front and the Holly Mother's on the back, had to spend over a month in a special solution before scientists could pry it open.

The ceramics found near a tower at the newly unearthed sanctuary are similar to the pottery from ancient Troy. This evidence brings new support for the hypothesis that the Troy Homer had described was founded by the Thrace.

It will be interesting to follow this discovery, and see what else can be found to support this belief, that Troy, was founded by Thrace.

And they are finding many things at this site.

Bulgaria uncovers 2,000-year-old temple
SOFIA, Bulgaria, July 24 (UPI) --
www.upi.com...

Archaeologists have uncovered a Bronze Age temple thousands of years old in southern Bulgaria, news reports said Monday.

Workshops for metallurgy, awls and molds for axes were found at the temple

And Back in Sofia, an Amphitheatre has recently been located.

Sofia Amphitheatre Rivals Rome's Colliseum
Lifestyle: 14 July 2006, Friday.
www.novinite.com...

The largest on the Balkans area amphitheatre has revealed more of its ruins in the heart of Sofia.

The ancient amphitheatre, which had entertained the ancient city of Serdika in the end of 3rd and the beginning of 4th century B.C. has a diameter of 60 x 40 meters - some 10 meters less than Rome's Colliseum.

Excavations have shown that beneath it there are probably ruins of an older ancient theatre - a unique combination for those times, archeologists commented.

The amphitheatre places Bulgaria's capital next to another two European cities perched on such ancient building.

So far, only Madrid and Paris have had large amphitheatres within the city's boundaries.

An ancient amphitheatre was unearthed in centre Sofia last year, while an excavator machine was digging up for the fundamentals of an eight-storey hotel in downtown city.

The building company Fairplay has immediately redrafted construction plans to include the unearthed parts in the hotel's interior.

The arena for beast fight has revealed the "menians" - the seats for noble Roman patricians.

Archaeologists have unearthed thousands of bronze and one gold coin with the image of Emperor Constantinos the Great.

Only slightly smaller that the Colliseum in Rome!

So, a Rich History is starting to be reveiled, and it will be interesting to see where all of these lead.

Moving Myths into the Realm of Reality?

Ciao

Shane

As much as I would like to address this "SEPERATELY" I will log it here first, since it is related to the above topic.

We are finding, according to some further discoveries, that Buglaria, or the Bulgar Region is becoming a wealth of artifacts.

And here one of the BEST so Far!!!

Expert: Tablet May Have Oldest Writings
Archaeologist says ancient tablet could hold some of the world's earliest writings

SOFIA, Bulgaria, Aug. 4, 2006
www.cbsnews.com...

(AP) An almost 7,000-year old stone tablet found in Bulgaria bears carvings that might turn out to be one of the world's oldest inscriptions, a prominent Bulgarian archaeologist said Thursday.

"These signs are unique and apparently bear a meaning," Nikolai Ovcharov told a press conference. Ovcharov said he had received the tablet from a private collector who had unearthed it 20 years ago.

The collector asked to remain anonymous, because he risked criminal prosecution for looting or criminal possession of antiquities. The tablet, about three inches, carries five distinct signs each made up of two elements, Ovcharov said. "This could be the prototype of a script," he added.

Two similar tablets also dating back to the 5th millenium B.C. have also been found in Bulgaria many years ago. It could be argued that their carvings, although rather schematic, are part of the same proto-script, Ovcharov said.

Well, to say the least, this is quite a surprise to me, that in a relatively short period of time, MANY ASTOUNDING FINDS have surfaced in this region.

And if there is an ability to decipher the "Glpyhs" (They seem to resemble Egyptian Glyphs to my untrained eye), I wonder how this effects the previous beliefs of the Cradle of Civilization being more in the Mid East?

(There is a Photo of the Find in the Link)

I hope the "Discoverer" of this will at least point researchers in the proper direction for further investigation as well.

I will continue to follow things in this region and keep posting them HERE in an effort to cut down on the Same topic's being dicussed in 20 seperate Posted Topics. If its Thracian, it will be here

Ciao

Shane


[edit on 5-8-2006 by Shane]

Originally posted by Shane

Expert: Tablet May Have Oldest Writings
Archaeologist says ancient tablet could hold some of the world's earliest writings

SOFIA, Bulgaria, Aug. 4, 2006
www.cbsnews.com...

(AP) An almost 7,000-year old stone tablet found in Bulgaria bears carvings that might turn out to be one of the world's oldest inscriptions, a prominent Bulgarian archaeologist said Thursday.

"These signs are unique and apparently bear a meaning," Nikolai Ovcharov told a press conference. Ovcharov said he had received the tablet from a private collector who had unearthed it 20 years ago.

The collector asked to remain anonymous, because he risked criminal prosecution for looting or criminal possession of antiquities. The tablet, about three inches, carries five distinct signs each made up of two elements, Ovcharov said. "This could be the prototype of a script," he added.

And if there is an ability to decipher the "Glpyhs" (They seem to resemble Egyptian Glyphs to my untrained eye), I wonder how this effects the previous beliefs of the Cradle of Civilization being more in the Mid East?

Shane,
I spent a little time on this very interesting information tonight. The script shown in your link isn't even similar to any other ancient script I can find on short notice.

It's nothing like Linear A or Linear B, and not at all like the Cretan Heiroglyphics as can be seen on the Phaistos Disk (scroll down for close-ups.) One of these three I would have thought to be similar, given the location.

Regarding the "cradle of civilization," it might be a bit soon to speculate on that. I mean, the article said that the object was removed from it's context over twenty years ago. I seriously doubt that an Archaeologists could accurately date such an item. A little Bulgarian pride seems to be getting in the way of this scientist's impartiality!

Anyway, Bulgaria is only, what, 1000 miles or so from Mesopotamia? And the Sumerian script in the earliest examples we have found are quite well developed. The assumption there is that a written language from which Sumerian came could have come about a thousand years earlier than we know about.

So, I thought I'd throw a few websites your way before going to bed - the three examples of what are basically Minoan scripts above, and this other one where you might want to poke around:
Ancient Scripts.com.

See if you can find anything similar there. I haven't looked yet.

Harte

Edit:
Alright, it looks kind of likeElamite.

Problem is, this little-known and rare script was found in what is now Iran.

H

[edit on 8/5/2006 by Harte]

Originally posted by Harte
Shane,
I spent a little time on this very interesting information tonight. The script shown in your link isn't even similar to any other ancient script I can find on short notice.

I find it interesting as well.

I am sure your are aware, I have some interest in the Steppes, and the Peoples that came from these regions. For Months and Months there has been nothing, and then within these few weeks, a good many things are happening.

Regarding the "cradle of civilization," it might be a bit soon to speculate on that.

Anyway, Bulgaria is only, what, 1000 miles or so from Mesopotamia? And the Sumerian script in the earliest examples we have found are quite well developed.

Problem is, this little-known and rare script was found in what is now Iran.

Yes, I agree with your observations. "Could" is a very useful word here.

It could be just something that traveled and became lost, and then Found 20 years ago. It may not even be Thracian. But I do find the matter as a whole very interesting. Look at what is being found here. Very exciting times, as far as I am concerned.

And thanks for your search and input. I still see, "Some" resemblance to Egyptian Glyphs, or even the Mayan manner of records, apposed to a written text, such as the Linar Examples you offered.

And I mean this as having a "Boxed" or "Underlined" sort of appearance. Not that the Picture's or Depicitions have any similiarity to Egyptians Glyphs specifically. It just looks as if the text is broken into parts, like Glyphs. I hope I have expressed this correctly. I am no Linguist, so my commentary is based upon an ignorance of the "Correct" terms that could be used.

But it does have some of that Elamite look to it.

Thanks again

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane

And thanks for your search and input. I still see, "Some" resemblance to Egyptian Glyphs, or even the Mayan manner of records, apposed to a written text, such as the Linar Examples you offered.

And I mean this as having a "Boxed" or "Underlined" sort of appearance. Not that the Picture's or Depicitions have any similiarity to Egyptians Glyphs specifically. It just looks as if the text is broken into parts, like Glyphs. I hope I have expressed this correctly. I am no Linguist, so my commentary is based upon an ignorance of the "Correct" terms that could be used.

But it does have some of that Elamite look to it.

Yeah, I saw it that way too. I mean Mayan.

I didn't say anything because that is of course out of the question, as well as it was only reminiscent of Mayan generally. The Mayan hieroglyphs are almost pictoral, each one resembling a small portrait or carved scene, whereas what your article depicts seems to be more like geometric shapes. But the Mayan glyphs have that "boxed in" look you're talking about, moreso that Egyptian.

But while I was looking into it, I started getting a feeling that (and I'm no expert either) Egyptian hieroglyphs might be the root of most alphabets out there now, I mean, the Roman alphabet for example resembles Egyptian much more than it does cuneiform. So if it is really an ancient script, it wouldn't be surprising for it to resemble either Egyptian or Cuneiform.

And it don't look like Cuneiform at all.

Anyway, the scientist said it might be a "protoscript," meaning I guess that it's not really an alphabetic representation of words, but maybe more like an enumeration of various things. Maybe a list of posessions in some deed or contract or the like.

I'd be interested to see if anything comes of this.

BTW, did you notice the Ogham section in that "Ancientscripts.com" link I posted?

Harte

And things just keep on being found here. A Gold Dagger dating to 3000 BC, along with a mass of Jewelery. Also notes Bronze and Silver Knifes have been found in the last few years, and most of these are in Good Condiation and should be displayed in due time.

Bulgarian Archaeologists Unearth 5,000-Year-Old Gold Dagger
Wednesday, August 09, 2006
www.foxnews.com...

SOFIA, Bulgaria — A 6-inch-long gold and platinum dagger believed to be 5,000 years old has been unearthed in central Bulgaria, the archaeologist leading the excavations said Monday.

Archaeologist Martin Hristov said his team discovered more than 500 tiny golden rings that appeared to be pieces of ancient jewelry.

Bozhidar Dimitrov, the head of the National Museum of History, said the finds were perfectly preserved and would soon go on display in the museum.

The artifacts were gradually unearthed in the past few weeks in an ancient Thracian complex near the central village of Dabene, 75 miles east of the capital, Sofia.

Other finds include a small golden plaque, silver vessels, bronze and silver ritual knives, and ancient pottery.

Over the past two years Hristov's team has found more than 15,000 miniature ancient golden rings and beads near Dabene — all dating back about 5,000 to 5,200 years.

They form exquisite golden jewels said to resemble the adornment found by German archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann when he discovered the site of ancient Troy.

"The mounds near Dabene seem part of a complex — some of them resemble tombs, while others appear to be ritual sites where ancient people buried gifts for the gods," Hristov said.

Historians suggest that the people who crafted the dagger and the golden jewels were ancestors of the Thracians, who inhabited the lands of present-day Bulgaria and parts of modern Greece, Turkey, Macedonia and Romania between 4000 B.C. and the 8th century A.D. when they were assimilated by the invading Slavs.

As always, I will keep bringing finds here for the region, since it is building a base of various objects and structures we tend to associate with the Mythic World, apposed to the Historic World, which seems to be changing some lately.

Also, I wished to bring another post, which speaks to this a little more, into here for review as well.

'Theseus Ring' is the real deal?

So what once was believed to be a fake, has suddenly become a valued piece of a Minoan past.

Greek archaeologists confirm authenticity of 'Theseus Ring'
Aug 2, 2006, 15:44 GMT
science.monstersandcritics.com...

Athens - The long-lost 'Theseus Ring,' a gold ring found in the Plaka district of Athens in the 1950s and generally dismissed as a fake, has been identified by Greek archaeologists as a genuine 15th century BC artifact, reports said Wednesday.

The Greek press had reported the discovery of a gold signet ring, with dimensions 2.7 x 1.8 cm dating from the Minoan period, and the National Archaeological Museum wanted to purchase it for 75,000 euros from the woman who owned it.

There was a huge debate about its authenticity until a panel of experts from the Culture Ministry declared the piece to be genuine.

The ring, which depicts a bull-leaping scene, is believed to come from the area of Anafiotika in the Athens ancient city centre of Plaka. The scene also includes a lion to the left and a tree to the right.

According to ancient Greek mythology, Prince Theseus was the son of King Aegeus of Athens. During this period, the Minoans under the leadership of King Minos, who lived on the island of Crete, had a very strong navy and often attacked various Greek cities, including Athens.

It is becoming an ever more interesting time to live. Seeing time and time again, the Mythos being shown to have been TRUTH, as it has always claimed to be since it's Origin. In this Case, Greek Mythology. Afterall, Mythos is Truth in the Greek.

Here is also a Reference for review, should Theseus and the lore surrounding him be not known to you.
en.wikipedia.org...

Ciao

Shane

(I haven't figured out how to quote another post, so I'll paste it)

SOFIA, Bulgaria — A 6-inch-long gold and platinum dagger believed to be 5,000 years old has been unearthed in central Bulgaria, the archaeologist leading the excavations said Monday.

The really cool thing, that a lot of people overlook, is that the dagger is a gold and platinum alloy.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This links to the BBC's article on the dagger.

Anyway, the reason it's interesting, to me anyway, is platinum is incredibly difficult to refine into a usable metal. Quoting from www.unctad.org, which is information about commodities, states:

"The production of platinum requires very complex processing techniques that were not available until the end of the 19th century. Moreover, the high melting points (1,769°C) of platinum made it very difficult to work with it."

Thrace was supposed to have existed during the bronze age, because mining techniques couldn't yet smelt iron, because of it's high melting point. (1535 º C)

I just think it's odd that they could refine platinum, which requires much higher temperature, as well as complex aqueous chemical processing for isolation, but they couldn't refine iron.

Unless they could...

Who knows :-)

Fascinating thread--thanks to all for posting! It's getting close to my bedtime (I get cranky without enough sleep ) but I will definitely be checking out these links--it all sounds very, very interesting!!

I have always been fascinated with history (esp. ancient history) and of course, archaeology. LOVE reading about this kind of thing!

And it's amazing, all the "new" (altho actually ancient!) things that have been discovered recently in Bulgaria and Turkey. Can't wait to look into all this!

Thank you for keeping us updated, Shane--your info is very much appreciated!!

Although a period of 60 years have passed, these pieces are still beautiful.

It is nice to see these items being appreciated

Bulgaria Marks 60 Years since Finding of Top Archaeology Treasure
The Panagyurishte Treasure was found on December 8, 1949, by three brothers – Pavel, Petko and Michail Deikovi, who worked together at the region of “Merul” tile factory near the town of Panagyurishte, Bulgaria.

It consists of a phial, an amphora and seven rhytons with total weight of 6,164 kg of 23-karat gold. All of the objects are richly and skilfully decorated with scenes from Thracian mythology, customs and life.

It is dated to the 4th-3rd centuries BC, and is thought to have been used as a royal ceremonial set by the Thracian king Seuthes III.

www.novinite.com...

Nice to be back, and looking forward to reviving Thrace and it's Ancient Past.

Ciao

Shane

Recently, I aquired a Hi Speed Conx, and learnt about Photos.

This topic was sorely missing OPTICS, and I trust these examples of craftmanship are as awe inspiring as the are valuable.

First, the 'Theseus Ring' in both Color and B & W for detail contrast.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/49bfe6cea444.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d88a01707511.jpg[/atsimg]

Next the Panagyurishte Treasure, that maybe some of the finest Craftmanship I can recall seeing, for the period.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c6c4bc7827e7.jpg[/atsimg]

A closeup of the Disk/Plate
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e71c112caf11.jpg[/atsimg]

And Vase?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2bad90ec74dc.jpg[/atsimg]

Next there is the 6-inch-long gold and platinum dagger believed to be 5,000 years old along with some of the 500 Golden ringlets found

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/70926be1a2bd.jpg[/atsimg]

And then these, including the Gold Mask, a "ear ring" and a Necklace
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d4ecc665d4df.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e33c1a5f0d0a.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cbac6f5b884b.jpg[/atsimg]

And finally a piece of craftmanship, beyond discription.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/187fe2b6e34a.jpg[/atsimg]

Sorry, My Bad!

I trust these examples of artistic expression are enjoyed by the viewers/reviewers.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane

It's good that there are still people around who are taking the trouble to do these archeological digs in a professional manner. We still have a lot to learn about the "post-flood" period. My interests, however, lean towards "pre-flood" archeology and the true origins of human civilizations. On my lines, Michael Tellinger is currently the noisiest about this; though recent interviews with Klaus Dona were also interesting, if you missed his earlier efforts to talk about what he has found.

The big thing that concerns me about all these guys, which Michael Cremo is very vehement about, is how the stuff that seems to date a lot older than a few thousand years B.C. doesn't get the professional attention it deserves. If these things aren't properly studied and honestly dated, then we can't count on archeology to help us get useful data for the earlier periods of human life on earth.

Originally posted by l_e_cox

It's good that there are still people around who are taking the trouble to do these archeological digs in a professional manner. We still have a lot to learn about the "post-flood" period.

This is of course what we would wish for to say the least. Otherwise we have this. Booty from Thrace, Greece and Roma in the hands of some who at best, can only hide the Loot until confiscated and displayed by the Officials recovering these Items for "Humanity".

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8a9f709c6681.jpg[/atsimg]

The above items are part of the loot from the following article, Bulgaria Police Capture Archaeology Treasures in Crackdown.

Simultaneously, the police searched two locations in Nova Zagora where they found over 500 ancient coins, jewelry, medallions, ceramic figurines and vessels, horns encrusted with horns, a bronze head – all from the period of Ancient Greece, Thrace and Rome.

Other items also where secured in Sofia, but less details are avialable.

In Sofia, the police searched about several addresses where they seized two ancient ceramic vessels, 9 silver Roman coins, an ancient bronze application with a silver image of Medusa, and a metal detector.

I guess the Image of Medusa was just too dangerous to view.

Sorry for jesting, since this is not a funny matter.

Ciao

Shane

Afterall, Mythos is Truth in the Greek.

I think it is not: check here

Originally posted by Maegnas

Afterall, Mythos is Truth in the Greek.

I think it is not: check here

From your OWN Link my friend

myth
1830, from Gk. mythos "speech, thought, story, myth," of unknown origin.
Myths are "stories about divine beings, generally arranged in a coherent system; they are revered as true and sacred; they are endorsed by rulers and priests; and closely linked to religion. Once this link is broken, and the actors in the story are not regarded as gods but as human heroes, giants or fairies, it is no longer a myth but a folktale. Where the central actor is divine but the story is trivial ... the result is religious legend, not myth." [J. Simpson & S. Roud, "Dictionary of English Folklore," Oxford, 2000, p.254]
General sense of "untrue story, rumor" is from 1840.

My friend. Myth WAS Truth, as is clearly expressed in the Bolded and Underlined Section. It was accepted as "True and Sacred". That WAS it's meaning. In The example offered above, it is even distinct in this clarifying the matter in very simple words. " it is no longer a myth, but a folktale. Where the central actor is divine but the story is trivial ... the result is religious legend, not myth."

Nothing here is expressing the Myth as anything else than accepted truth.

Then we flow through time and that meaning becomes twisted, like most things and we end at the last line, that makes your point of course.

The 1840's is not Ancient Greece, in any sense, General or Not.

Thanks for the link to back that old quote up my Friend

Ciao

Shane