Qana, why Israel fired two rockets on a UN base.

Tonight I watched a Dutch political talk show in which Dutch general Van Kappen was a guest speaker. They discussed the attack on Qana, which happened years ago.

According to Van Kappen, whom researched the issue, and wrote the report, as advisor of the UN back then, the attack was deliberately committed.

The reason why an army unit deliberately attacked the UN post was because Hezbollah militants fired a mortar near the base and then rapidly went to the UN/refugees base to hide.

Van Kappen says it probably wasn't an attack assigned by the Israeli government, but solely committed by an Israeli military unit that was so annoyed by the continuous attacks of the Hezbollah militants that they fired two rockets (in contrast to one rocket, which the IDF claimed) on the base.

This might have been the reason again why Israel purposely attacked this UN outpost, as Hezbollah militants fired near the outpost as well.

The report can be read here:
almashriq.hiof.no...

Yeah, this is being discussed in another thread...
Unfortunately, Hezbollah will continue to get away with it, because people, for whatever reasons, are focused on what Israel is doing that they're completely ignoring Hezbollah (the reason why Israel is doing this in the first place).



Another link:
Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'

Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'
Canadian wrote of militia's presence, 'necessity' of bombing

Joel Kom, with files from Steven Edwards, CanWest News Service, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Thursday, July 27, 2006

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday.

The strike hit the UN observation post in the southern Lebanese village of El Khiam, killing Canadian Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener and three others serving as unarmed UN military observers in the area.

Just last week, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener wrote an e-mail about his experiences after nine months in the area, words Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said are an obvious allusion to Hezbollah tactics.

"What I can tell you is this," he wrote in an e-mail to CTV dated July 18. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both (Israeli) artillery and aerial bombing.

"The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters (sic) of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters (sic) from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

Those words, particularly the last sentence, are not-so-veiled language indicating Israeli strikes were aimed at Hezbollah targets near the post, said Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie.

"What that means is, in plain English, 'We've got Hezbollah fighters running around in our positions, taking our positions here and then using us for shields and then engaging the (Israeli Defence Forces)," he said.

That would mean Hezbollah was purposely setting up near the UN post, he added. It's a tactic Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie, who was the first UN commander in Sarajevo during the Bosnia civil war, said he's seen in past international missions: Aside from UN posts, fighters would set up near hospitals, mosques and orphanages.

[edit on 27-7-2006 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Yeah, this is being discussed in another thread...
Unfortunately, Hezbollah will continue to get away with it, because people, for whatever reasons, are focused on what Israel is doing that they're completely ignoring Hezbollah (the reason why Israel is doing this in the first place).

And I wonder why the Hezbollah are doing this in the first place? They're fighting what they feel is right for THEIR people, and that is to preserve their homes which is being taken and destroyed by the Israelis.

Originally posted by wiergraf
And I wonder why the Hezbollah are doing this in the first place? They're fighting what they feel is right for THEIR people, and that is to preserve their homes which is being taken and destroyed by the Israelis.

lol, what are you talking about?
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Are you thinking about the Palestinians?

Hezbollah crossed the border and raided Israel and kidnapped a couple of soldiers, that's what started this whole thing. Israel wasn't taking or destroying anyone's homes.

Israel attacked a UN observation post for one very simple reason: they do not want their actions in southern Lebanon observed.

Their intent is to "depopulate" (a nice way of saying slaughter) the Lebanese villages along their border entirely. Having UN observers in the area makes this fact harder to hide. If you don't believe me, ask Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon, who was a probably bit more blunt than he intended:

In his interview with Army Radio, Ramon also said the Israeli air force must bomb villages before ground forces enter, suggesting that this would help prevent Israeli casualties in the future.

Asked whether entire villages should be flattened, he said: “These places are not villages. They are military bases in which Hezbollah people are hiding and from which they are operating.”

Originally posted by xmotex
Israel attacked a UN observation post for one very simple reason: they do not want their actions in southern Lebanon observed.

Their intent is to "depopulate" (a nice way of saying slaughter) the Lebanese villages along their border entirely. Having UN observers in the area makes this fact harder to hide. If you don't believe me, ask Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon, who was a probably bit more blunt than he intended:

lol
You talk as if the villages along the border are Lebonese and not Hezbollah (controlled). If you have any evidence that any of the villages are not Hezbollah controlled then I'd like to see that. Also, please present any evidence they are trying to depopulate that area (not including the Hezies).

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Yeah, this is being discussed in another thread...
Unfortunately, Hezbollah will continue to get away with it, because people, for whatever reasons, are focused on what Israel is doing that they're completely ignoring Hezbollah (the reason why Israel is doing this in the first place).

If we had focused on what Israel was doing ,there would have been no such thing as 9-11, 7-11, The US Cole attack or any of it. If we had focused on what Israel was doing there would be many more Palestinians as well as Israelis alive right now. The focus will be temporary as usual and Americans like you and the current administration will make it disappear quickly soon after. Then when the next terrorist attack happens more of our freedoms will be taken away, billions more given to Israel and our country is turned to a police state just like their country is.

If you have any evidence that any of the villages are not Hezbollah controlled then I'd like to see that. Also, please present any evidence they are trying to depopulate that area (not including the Hezies).

So wait, you're the villages are entirely populated by Hezbollah supporters, however Israel is not trying to depopulate them, only the Hezbollah supporters there, which according to you is, err, everyone....

Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be an obvious contradiction here?

And besides, has it occured to you that one reason Hezbollah enjoys such support in southern Lebanon is because the people there are sick of getting rolled over and bombed to paste by the IDF every few years?

I realize this is a difficult concept for some to understand, but it seems to me people don't like being bombed for some reason. Moreover, even more incomprehensible, when you bomb people, they actually tend to get angry about it! They even want to kill you after you bomb them enough, even after you explain you're bombing them for their own good! Shocking!

I realize that the rational response to being bombed and shelled by Israel would be a warm and fuzzy love for all things Israeli, but hey, what can I say, them Ay-rabs are kinda funny that way.

[edit on 7/27/06 by xmotex]

ThatsJustWeird

Hezbollah may be tagged a terrorist group and the number one enemy of Israel . . .

But the fact is that Hezbollah has a good record when it comes to helping the people in southern Lebanon and that area before Israel targeting was very well kept. . .

People were not living in caves like Al-qaida supporters in Afghanistan you know.

That is why the people in Southern Lebanon support them and like them in there.

Just because they are a terrorist group by US and Israel standards doesn't mean that they are hartless when it comes to their own. . .

Originally posted by xmotex
So wait, you're the villages are entirely populated by Hezbollah supporters, however Israel is not trying to depopulate them, only the Hezbollah supporters there, which according to you is, err, everyone....

Please show me where I said any of that. I asked for the following:
1. Show me which villages are not Hezbollah controlled
2. Evidence Israel is trying to slaughter everyone

Perhaps you don't know the difference between a question and a statement?

And besides, has it occured to you that one reason Hezbollah enjoys such support in southern Lebanon is because the people there are sick of getting rolled over and bombed to paste by the IDF every few years?

Ok, here's another QUESTION and REQUEST. Understand? QUestion and Request.
Where are you getting your info from?
Please show us any evidence you have that Israel does this every few years.

I realize this is a difficult concept for some to understand, but it seems to me people don't like being bombed for some reason. Moreover, even more incomprehensible, when you bomb people, they actually tend to get angry about it! They even want to kill you after you bomb them enough, even after you explain you're bombing them for their own good! Shocking!

Yeah, I don't know why people like you don't understand this.
This all started when Hezbollah crossed the border, raided the Israelis, fired rockets and mortors into Israel, and kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers. Had that not happened, we would not be having this discussion.

I realize that the rational response to being bombed and shelled by Israel would be a warm and fuzzy love for all things Israeli, but hey, what can I say, them Ay-rabs are kinda funny that way.

So do you expect Israel to be all warm and fuzzy when their soldiers are kidnapped and while they're being mortored and hit with rockets?

Also were you joking when you said "Ay-rabs" or were you intentionally trying to be racist? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter....

Originally posted by marg6043
ThatsJustWeird

Hezbollah may be tagged a terrorist group and the number one enemy of Israel . . .

But the fact is that Hezbollah has a good record when it comes to helping the people in southern Lebanon and that area before Israel targeting was very well kept. . .

People were not living in caves like Al-qaida supporters in Afghanistan you know.

That is why the people in Southern Lebanon support them and like them in there.

Just because they are a terrorist group by US and Israel standards doesn't mean that they are hartless when it comes to their own. . .

I could care less.
Excluding 9/11, THEY are the ones responsible for more American deaths than any other terrorist group. If they're good to their own people, who cares!? I'm sure Hitler was good to his people.

Originally posted by wiergraf

And I wonder why the Hezbollah are doing this in the first place?

Well according to what Van Kappen yesterday said on this. The Hezbollah militants that fired the mortar on Israel back then were under the suspicion Israel wouldn't fire on a UN base. Obviously, Israel didn't an doesn't care about refugees and human lives.

However, on the otherside, the UN forces shouldn't have allowed Hezbollah to fire mortars on Israel so close to their base. The question is, whether the UN forces were aware of the fact they shot mortars from there.

Originally posted by xmotex
Israel attacked a UN observation post for one very simple reason: they do not want their actions in southern Lebanon observed.

Partly, I’ll have to agree with you. No matter what crime Israel commits, the US is always there to back them up, and to veto any resolution against Israel. Sometimes I wonder why the US is so intensively focused on protecting Israel. Maintaining a ''Western province'' in the Arab area doesn't make sense to me as being the only reason. Is it the Zionist influence in the US administration? Does America have something to hide?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You talk as if the villages along the border are Lebanese and not Hezbollah (controlled). If you have any evidence that any of the villages are not Hezbollah controlled then I'd like to see that.

If you have any evidence the Israeli soldiers were abducted on Israeli soil rather than on Lebanese soil I would like to see this as well. Israel says their soldiers were abducted on Israeli ground, but which objective source could confirm this?




[edit on 28-7-2006 by Mdv2]

Lets not forgot something. That UN post was IN A WAR ZONE!. I'm sure it wasn't a case of the Israelis not caring. As for the UN observers being aware or not of mortars being fired nearby.........mortars are pretty hard to not hear from that proximity. If they weren't aware, then they were piss-poor "OBSERVERS" anyway.

Originally posted by CreeWolf
Lets not forgot something. That UN post was IN A WAR ZONE!. I'm sure it wasn't a case of the Israelis not caring. As for the UN observers being aware or not of mortars being fired nearby.........mortars are pretty hard to not hear from that proximity. If they weren't aware, then they were piss-poor "OBSERVERS" anyway.

Which still does not allow Israel to destroy a UN base and its refugees camp, where hundreds of refugees stayed.

Furthermore, it was a war zone indeed, which caused gun fire and hitting shells each and every day. Then you really aren't aware of a mortar being fired...

The reason why an army unit deliberately attacked the UN post was because Hezbollah militants fired a mortar near the base and then rapidly went to the UN/refugees base to hide.

What a ridiculous and pathetic invention.

Does anyone with a brain actually belive this crap?

They are so obviously lying, and on the 0.000001% chance they aren't it's still a pathetic excuse.

If they had left any survivors that would contradict them, they wouldn't have the gawl to say this.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

The reason why an army unit deliberately attacked the UN post was because Hezbollah militants fired a mortar near the base and then rapidly went to the UN/refugees base to hide.

What a ridiculous and pathetic invention.

If you think so please elaborate, as you write a lot but don't add anything useful to the discussion.


I don't think its so pathetic at all, they proved it after all:

9. My team and I questioned a number of witnesses on the activities of Hezbollah fighters in Qana prior to the incident. The following was found:

(a) Between 1200 and 1400 hours on 18 April, Hezbollah fighters fired two or three rockets from a location 350 metres south-east of the United Nations compound. The location was identified on the ground.

(b) Between 1230 and 1300 hours, they fired four or five rockets from location 600 metres south-east of the compound. The location was identified on the ground.

(c) About 15 minutes before the shelling, they fired between five and eight rounds of 120 millimetre mortar from a location 220 metres south-west of the centre of the compound. The location was identified on the ground. According to witnesses, the mortar was installed there between 1100 and 1200 hours that day, but no action was taken by UNIFIL personnel to remove it. (On 15 April, a Fijian had been shot in the chest as he tried to prevent Hezbollah fighters from firing rockets.)

(d) The United Nations compound at Qana had taken a large number of Lebanese seeking shelter from Israeli bombardments. By Sunday, 14 April, 745 persons were in the compound. On 18 April, the day of the shelling, their number is estimated to have been well over 800. When the Fijian soldiers heard the mortar being fired not far from their compound, they began immediately to move as many of the civilians as possible into shelters so that they would be protected from any Israeli retaliation.

(e) At some point (it is not completely clear whether before or after the shelling), two or three Hezbollah fighters entered the United Nations compound, where their families were.

[edit on 28-7-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by Mdv2
If you have any evidence the Israeli soldiers were abducted on Israeli soil rather than on Lebanese soil I would like to see this as well. Israel says their soldiers were abducted on Israeli ground, but which objective source could confirm this?

Every source I have seen has said this...

CNN
BBC
Reuters
AP
etc.

What source have you seen said it wasn't in Israel?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Excluding 9/11, THEY are the ones responsible for more American deaths than any other terrorist group. If they're good to their own people, who cares!? I'm sure Hitler was good to his people.

I will disagree with this opinion . . . and I see that when people don't care about the why or who's out there in which the middle east present situation comes to be it only make us look ignorant and not very civilized at all.

After all US is right now is invading one of the nations in the middle east, we should care and we should ask ourself why our government brought upon our nation when we take sides in the middle east.

Terrorism did not happen overnight it took decades and hundreds of years for the nations in the middle east to become so hostiles to the west and other European countries.

But Is OK . . . here in America like you said Who cares.

I care . . .

That is why can never be peace in the world because as long as we are in the right the rest of the world is wrong . . . or that is what propagandist or war seems to preach.

What exactly are you disagreeing with? Everything I said was based on facts...



The only thing I said I don't care about is Hezbollah being good to their own people.

Originally posted by Mdv2
If you have any evidence the Israeli soldiers were abducted on Israeli soil rather than on Lebanese soil I would like to see this as well. Israel says their soldiers were abducted on Israeli ground, but which objective source could confirm this?

Since the UN is Lebanon “observing” and their reports are considered somewhat creditable in this thread…why not use a UN source?

Governor General’s Report: July 21, 2006.

3. The crisis started when, around 9 a.m. local time, Hizbollah launched several
rockets from Lebanese territory across the withdrawal line (the so-called Blue Line)
towards Israel Defense Forces (IDF) positions near the coast and in the area of the
Israeli town of Zarit. In parallel, Hizbollah fighters crossed the Blue Line into Israel
and attacked an IDF patrol. Hizbollah captured two IDF soldiers, killed three others
and wounded two more. The captured soldiers were taken into Lebanon. Subsequent to the attack on the patrol, a heavy exchange of fire ensued across the Blue Line between Hizbollah and IDF: While the exchange of fire stretched over the entire length of the Line, it was heaviest in the areas west of Bint Jubayl and in the Shab'a farms area. Hizbollah targeted IDF positions and Israeli towns south of the BlueLine…..
Full Report

…Or how about the Sheik’s own admission during a press conference in Beirut personally dubbing the act as “Operation Truthful Promise”

mg