Is Pollution the Answer in the Middle East?

OK, how about this for the perfect conspiracy to end violence in the Middle East?

No need to worry about suicide bombers -- all the potential victims would be long gone.

The Syrians, Iranians, and "whoever-else-ians" would have bigger problems (ie: survival) to worry about rather than making war with their neighbors.

The Israeli Army would be a moot point with nothing left to defend.

The U.S. and other world powers could care less about the barren desert remaining.

North America (esp. Canada and her Oil Shale) would become the new Energy Superpower.


Curious?

The answer is to make the Middle East land -- all land -- uninhabitable.


The main question is how.....

How does one pollute a large surface area of the Earth to make it uninhabitable for many generations?

Nuclear? Biological? Nano-tech?

Also, how does one disguise such a masssive disruptive effort like this?


Whatever the solution, a successful campaign of this type would have obvious consequences -- the least of which would be millions of refugees seeking safe haven in Europe, Asia, and Africa. In any case, Middle East violence would be a thing of the past.

and there is enough of it to make every nation on Earth still attempt to pump it even if the land was barren and a wasteland. There would still be conflicts about it and the immigration issue would be very interesting to say the least. The stage scenery would change but the play would still go on.

Interesting topic, but I find it very unrealistic. First of all, if you pollute the equivalent to half a continent, what kind of effects do you think it will have globally both economically and environmentally?

Second, you're displacing billions of people from their homes, and who do you suppose will accept a billion non-working, welfare dependant refugees? It will completely devastate the economy of the country.

Third, none of the world's largest religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) would ever allow such a thing to happen. You're basically destroying their holy lands and faith by completely obliterating every relic and architecture holy to them.

Fourth, it's very logical to assume many will not leave there homes, because they choose not give up their homes. You would be causing mass genocide the likes of which have virtually never been seen before in human history.

Fifth, any pollution presented would disperse into neighboring lands, causing a domino effect of destruction. Not only will these raise mutations in human, plant, and animal offspring, but it will also destroy the agriculture of the world market.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by DJMessiah]

I think a better way to end the war in the middle east is to stop relying on their oil, with out oil money they wont have any money to fund their army... but I dont see that happening soon....

Of course polluting the land is not the answer. But it also doesn't involve oil. These people hated and fought with each other long before oil was ever discovered. They have gone out of their way to kill their neighbors for thousands of years.

I just started wondering why all the hatred and what could possibly be worth all that strife? Why is this land so valuable? We constantly see images of human misery and suffering in the news, yet they just keep at it. What is it about this land that they keep fighting over and what could possibly tip the balance in favor of peace?

If 2 children are fighting over a toy, a common parental tactic is to take away the toy?

Or, what if the toy was somehow made less desirable (it's broken) and not worth fighting over?

Would that work in this case, or would they just find something else to fight about?

Then again, another tactic might be to just let them fight it out until someone cries "uncle" and a new pecking order is established. If they're so determined to kill each other, then why stand in their way?

The world won't need their oil in 50 years anyway, so they'd better work it out before then or else nobody will care and the world will turn a blind eye to their genocide just like it does with all the other countries that don't possess valuable natural resources. Anybody remember Rwanda or Sudan?

Um... War crimes... Anyone?

Complete lack of moral ethics?

Complete lack of human decency?

I did read your whole post, but you really did loose me with the "whoever-else-ians" part.


This isn't a solution!

Double Helix, as long as there is a scarcity in natural resources, there will always be war. Same rule applies to anywhere else in the world. Look at the cause of WWII when Japan captured a Chinese village, because they were desperate for more natural resources.

There are two realistic ways to minimize fighting in the world. One would be to allow free trade among all countries without bans on any imports from another country due to different forms of government.

The second would be to find a common enemy. This is off topic, but there was once a story I read where a "mad" scientist wanted to end all wars among countries in the World, so he decided to develop an AI being that would kill off humanity. His plan was to make the AI seem like an extra terrestrial being that came to Earth inorder to enslave mankind, which would cause countries to stop fighting each other and stop a WWIII from occuring between nations, and join together to fight the new global threat (the alien AI). There was a hero to the story who tried to stop the scientist, but by the end of the story, you find out that the scientist was successful in creating the being and had already set it loose. The being then starts WWIII. The story doesn't continue on from there, but the reader pretty much knows what will happen from there.

An interesting point the story brought up was, was the scientist good for uniting mankind, or evil for starting WWIII?

DJMessiah, I agree that wars are often fought over limited resources. However, when it comes to Middle East violence, I think the roots of hatred run much deeper.

Even if we could wave a magic wand and eliminate poverty, disease, hunger, and all other social ills, I firmly believe they would still go out of their way to kill each other. That's all they've ever known. It's in their culture. It's in their religion. It's in their blood. They teach it to their young.

Hatred is all they have that brings meaning to their lives.

I'm not sure I buy into the free trade solution, but I did like your story about using a common enemy to achieve peace between warring factions. In a roundabout way, that's sort of what I was alluding to in my first post.

But, in a Darwinian sense, the simple fact is that they'll just keep on killing each other until:

1) the consequences of killing outweigh the benefit of cooperation, or
2) there's nobody's left to kill.

The answer to ending Mid East violence is for all parties involved WANTING to end the violence.

So far, Ive seen no evidence than anyone wants the violence to stop, so the best thing to do is stop supporting the violence, cut them off, and let them happily shoot, torture, and kill one another till they get tired of carrying on millenia old grudges and holding onto medieval mindsets and wake up and smell the 21st century.

Double Helix, I take offense to your comment. Can you show me proof that it teaches to falsely kill in culture, religion, and when we are born? I'm Middle Eastern and I have yet to meet another family, group, citizen who have advocated killing someone just because it "says" we "have" to.

Did I strike a nerve? That wasn't my intent.

As a Middle Easterner, you should be well aware of the region's history. It's replete with incessant war and violence throughout the ages. Study your history. Providing specific examples is outside the scope of this thread.

My comments were intended more as general observations, and not directed toward any individual or group. If you took personal offense, then I would suggest you look deep within yourself and ask "why?"

Why do you take offense? Is there something that you, personally, could do to change the status quo?

Take up the banner of peace. Do what you can to stop the hatred and break the generational cycle of violence.

I offer this quote in closing:

Hatred/bitterness can never cure the disease of fear; only love can do that. Hatred paralyzes life, love releases it. Hatred confuses life. Love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it. (Martin Luther King, Jr.)

Double Helix, M.E. history is also your history and mine. When an alternative fuel is allowed or rather forced by necessity to be used because the oil has run out, or the oil economy has fought itself to armageddon, then there may be peace in the M.E. and perhaps across the whole polluted, dead world? Do you own shares in bio-chem suits?

In modern times we have to realise even more profoundly than a believers blind awe in a postulated God, or the economy bees filling up their tanks, that oil is to our economy what blood is to our veins.

Sick isn't it? The vast majority of lifeforms survive within a natural environment, yet one species that can rise to a stratospheric evolution can also risk the entire existence of life. Meteor strikes may save us from the ultimate embarrassment of being too smart and greedy for our own survival.

Originally posted by Double Helix
Did I strike a nerve? That wasn't my intent.

Salaam. I don't get angered so easily, only offended by stereotyping.

As a Middle Easterner, you should be well aware of the region's history. It's replete with incessant war and violence throughout the ages. Study your history. Providing specific examples is outside the scope of this thread.

I have done my history. Look at what has caused the wars in the Middle East for the past 6 centuries. Notice how it's usually either U.S's, U.K's, or the U.N's involvement that causes more trouble than they intend to do good. Would you also care to explain to me what region in the world hasn't been in a war or effected by a war in the past few centuries? You tend to generalize that war is only occuring in the Middle East, but fail to note that it has been happening everywhere in the world.

My comments were intended more as general observations, and not directed toward any individual or group. If you took personal offense, then I would suggest you look deep within yourself and ask "why?"

It's due to your statement that religion, culture, and "blood" causes wars. I would like to ask you to back up your claims with proof. Show me where in religion it asks to kill innocents, where in culture it teaches to kill, and why is it that if it's in every Middle Easterner's "blood" that there aren't billions of people killing?

Why do you take offense? Is there something that you, personally, could do to change the status quo?

Because claiming something racist and prejudice without proof is something that does not please many people, especially the ones it's directed towards.

Take up the banner of peace. Do what you can to stop the hatred and break the generational cycle of violence.

I am Muslim. That is my way of peace. I choose love and peace for the fellow man, regardless of their faith over violence. I started choosing peace the day I became Muslim.

I offer this quote in closing:

Hatred/bitterness can never cure the disease of fear; only love can do that. Hatred paralyzes life, love releases it. Hatred confuses life. Love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it. (Martin Luther King, Jr.)

I don't disagree.

how about we just all make some kind of UEF(United Earth Federation) with a system that has no currency and no politics whatsoever we all just do whatever we can in labor with a goal of cleaning up earth and researching some kind of warpdrive so we can get off this rock on coloize alpha centuri yay

but of course this will never happen
since there so many greedy mofos in the world that wont let this happen.
the only way this could happen is if WW3 happens then we would realize how retarded we weremy way of world peace

A disgraceful and disturbing post.

One could equally argue that by nuking the USA we'd improve the world and significantly reduce the World's demand for oil (and have no resultant refugee crisis).

Originally posted by Strangerous
A disgraceful and disturbing post.

Agreed! :shk:

Originally posted by DJMessiah
I have done my history. Look at what has caused the wars in the Middle East for the past 6 centuries. Notice how it's usually either U.S's, U.K's, or the U.N's involvement that causes more trouble than they intend to do good. Would you also care to explain to me what region in the world hasn't been in a war or effected by a war in the past few centuries? You tend to generalize that war is only occuring in the Middle East, but fail to note that it has been happening everywhere in the world.

The majority of problems in the middle east stem from world war I and II when the Europeans divided up the Ottoman Empire into mandates. The french and british messed things up after that...If you want to blame anyone its them, but thats irrelevant to the point...Europeans have screwed up pretty bad in the middle east, yet no one is willing to do anything about it. What? We started Iraq and Afghanistan? What are our governments thinking? Do they want to die? I can't think of any other possible explanation...

War is sadly happening globally, although it is more pronounced in the middle east as Israel has just started shooting now too...

God help us all!

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by Strangerous
A disgraceful and disturbing post.

Agreed! :shk:

I can't believe this thread has not been closed. I am all for freedom of speech, but does it have to be here? This is just plain disturbing to me.

some facts

1. the dependance on oil is the weak link of the western countries

2. the price of gasoline is 20 to 30% raw materials/crude, 10% transportation and refining, the remaining % is taxes. (here the tax rate is about 60%)

3. with such an exagerated taxation the control of the gas price is mainly done by governments who set the tax rates and not the opec

4. if all this is true, so why do we even care about the midle east?
even with the barel (500litres) at 100 USD the price of the gasoline shouldnt be above 50 usd cents

but thats okay, I don´t mind to pay those taxes, IF the money, or a substantial
part of it goes to renewable energies research and production.

I guess this toght resumes all.

WE HAVE TO FORCE OUR GOVERNMENTS TO INVEST OUR MONEY ON RENEWABLE ENERGIES.

this is the way for us to get rid of oil/war and its the only way we have to stay ahead of the remaining countries on "new forms of energy production and use" when their oil reserves end in 20 to 50 years...then, they will have to buy our technology and the investment we made in the past will give profits...

fred

Originally posted by Double Helix
The answer is to make the Middle East land -- all land -- uninhabitable.


The main question is how.....

How does one pollute a large surface area of the Earth to make it uninhabitable for many generations?

I guess the best thing would be some type of salted nulear weapon.