War With Iran is On - UK Govt Sources Confirm

Originally posted by northwolf
Legalizer

Is Western World = USA?

Not all Western countries support Israel... EU Mostly Funds the Palestinian Regime is that supporting Israel?

Most of the EU/Europe secretly supports Israel.

Germany, Britain, Ireland, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Poland etc... are all pro-israel.

Britain has even been selling weapons and spare parts to the Israeli miliatry

"Over the last year and a half the UK government has licensed the export of arms to Israel worth over £25m, including components for naval light guns, military utility helicopters, aircraft radars and electronic warfare equipment.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Germany has been selling/giving Dolphin class diesel submarines to Israel even though they know that Israel will use them as a second strike nucluer weapons platform and they have even given these subs to Israel way before the Iran "threat".

In fact most european countries secretly deal with the Israeli military and the British secret service has strong ties to Mossad(Israeli Secret service). There was a documentry a while back on british TV where a person from the british secret service admitted they work with and have relationship with the Israeli Mossad.

Italy has a very close relationship with Israel.



.

so...

Business is Business

Finland has sold Mortar and Rifle Licences to Israel (Soltam and Galil)

We would allso sell to Lebanon, or Palestinians if they had the currency to pay...
Arms dealing is not supporting, if we would give them guns like USA it would be another story... In a market economy a comppany is free to deal with whom they want, as long as there are no international embargoes in place...


Majority of "New" Palestinian weapons is bought by Eu aid money, we've practically kept Gaza and West Bank alive for the past 2 years... So who do we support?

A friend of mine was going by train from Tehran through one of the huge industrial regions. It seems a vast number of the companies investing there are German and French, so those two nations will probably not jump for joy at the prospect.

Personally I find this whole "War with Iran" scenario fairly unlikely. The US and UK haven't been able to police Afghanistan or Iraq to any degree, and now they're possibly looking at another invasion? To do so would be to invite disaster at a time when money and military personnel could be much more effectively used to drag Afghanistan and Iraq out of the Anarchy into which we've dumped them.

I also find an Iran invasion unlikely under current circumstances. However I do think another major false flag operation (see 9/11) is imminent, possibly with Israel as the target, which will drastically change the perceived circumstances in the middle east.

I call bull# on that infowars information. And if it is true, allow me to say the politicians in Washington, which I knew weren't up to the task, are starting to speak like the British politicians, this isnt good! We wouldnt want Britain's rep tarnished in the manner of the USA now would we? Europe would have Jihad declared on it, technically it already has been, so technically Europe is "at war" with Terrorists, from Brit to Spain to Germany to Chechnya to Ingushetia and Russia.

Lets be realists. Yes, the politicians are stupid and scary, but that are they that #ing dumb? Follow me. Our troops are in predominantly Shia Iraq, incredibly sympathetic to Iran, being its Shia neighbor, and is being influenced by Iranians heavily in government and militias. Al-Sadr's Mahdi army undoubtably has close ties to Iranian elements, and alot of these "Shia death squads" might even BE Iranians, or Iranian Iraqis re-entering their country after exile to see their family bombed by the US, or worse, the Sunni terrorist elements. I mean come on, they bomb, then bomb the #ing funeral of the bombing victim.. is that not just sick?

So what I'm getting at is, the Sunni Arab world would be happy about a war with Iran, but Iraq most certainly would not be happy at all. In fact, our forces deployed in Iraq and in the Persian Gulf would be the ones fighting Iranians in any would-be war, ON IRAQI SOIL .. as occupiers? That would turn the Shia against the Coalition as well and cause failure in Iraq, even if peace is reached sometime, a war with Iran would undo that peace.

Our forces are so repositioned at the moment that we basicly have Iran surrounded by military installations, air force and army/marine bases, navy bases, a multitude of ships and aircraft, and over 120,000 american troops on the ground within driving distance of their border region in Iraq. If you see these forces remain stagnant AFTER any peace process is successful in Iraq, if you see the number of civilians deaths and casualties go down but no troop reduction, then i'd see it as a sign of preparatory measures for a coming war w/Iran, but only then. And it would be incredibly foolish, Iraq would turn against us again, the Arab world would start to like us more though, it would be a trade-off.

Mark my words people, if your going to remember a word of this:
Make no error, Russia is an ally of Iran and has been for quite sometime. Russia is also diplomaticly against Israel's actions in Lebanon, and are always critical of Israel. Russia is one of the major roadblocks to getting a 100% agreeable decision in the UN securty council on Iran because they block the severe sanctions and such. China is also a close partner of Iran economically. Both countries sell Iran hella weapons and have been since the Iranian Revolution.

If we attack Iran without united nations security council consent across the board with any kind of veto, it will be seen by the World as another attack "on their own" by the USA, disregarding Global rules and systems, for their personal agendas of war. Russia would be MOST angry with The USA over any serious attack on Iran, and would threaten to get involved if we continued our attack. Mark my words.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by runetang]

Then of course in the future you could see the dominoes falling and Iran being victorious in driving us out of Iraq, with their multitiudes of troops and weaponry, and once we're gone they'd champion the Liberation cause and march through Syria right into Israel, thus the Revelation prophecies of crossing the dry Tigris/Euphrates rivers with what was it .. 500,000 soldiers, or 500 million? I forgot the number in the the Revelation of John to be honest.. I believe it was 50 Million or something, maybe 5 Million? They come from the East.. (Iran/Russia/China only candidates.) The bible coudnt have been talking about the Mongols that destroyed Baghdad in the 1200's .. because thats not "end times", and Israel wasn't a state at the time, both precursors among others listed in John's Revelation for this event.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by runetang]

Russia also supports Venezuela now.
www.cnn.com...

Also, Israel has killed 4 UN soldiers in what the UN is calling a 'deliberate attack'.
One of the soldiers killed was CHINESE and China is pissed.

Looks like another "Axis of Evil" is forming

[edit on 26-7-2006 by freakyty]

No way. This is illogical in the extreme. We cannot even meet our current military needs and are experiencing shortfalls in recruitment for army and special forces. A huge force would be needed to fight in Iran, and the people there would not collapse. A protracted conflict with house-to-house fighting against people who believe in their government would be far harder than fighting in Iraq, and you see how well we are doing there!

In addition, an invasion of Iran would likely bring other countries (Syria and others) into the conflict, which would become a massive confligration.

In order to invade Iran, and the middle east we would need national will on the order of WW2 and be willing to sustain a lot of casualties: also a draft would be needed.

Even air strikes against Iran would be risky (because of the possibilty of missile counterstrikes) and alienating our allies.

Of course I do admit that countries do go to war and make dumb decisions despite logic and cooler heads (War in Europe on two fronts anyone??).

Setting aside the questions over unnamed "credible and informed source" and that "former senior Labour government Minister" for a moment - could this in the end, simply be a question of semantics ?

Perhaps it means that there will be the imposition of harsh sanctions, or more intense diplomatic activity, and that the focus of it is such that it'll be 'war': using 'war' as a metaphor for the strength applied to the action - much like the recent appearence of the term 'medieval' to imply a severe beating ?

I fully support Israel. The only problem is they appear to be a puppet regime for their sugar daddy G. Bush.

As for a possible war.. well firstly as others have said, a credible source would be required.

The Uk doesn't have the money/ man power to risk such a costly war with Iran. If a war did happen I can only see missle attacks and possibly several risky bombing runs. The UK wouldn't officially declare war unless thhey were pushed to an extreme. I think we can relax for now.

Whether you are against a war with Iran or not I do have a question. If Iran gets the nuclear bomb it desperately wants, do you think the West is in danger? I should say is a nuclear wielding Iran a serious threat to Jerusalem, London, New York or Sydney? I believe that if allowed to produce nuclear bombs that Iran will use a proxy to nuke a western city. Perhaps not Israel because even the nut job Ahmadinejad knows Israel would make his country a wasteland. I do think Iran’s proxy’s will get a nuclear device on a ship and a western port city will be bombed.

If anyone thinks Iran wanting a nuke and yet has no intention of using it, I would like to hear your explanation. If you do think Iran will use a nuke on another country how do you think the situation should be handled.

Originally posted by i4cu2

If Iran gets the nuclear bomb it desperately wants, do you think the West is in danger? I should say is a nuclear wielding Iran a serious threat to Jerusalem, London, New York or Sydney?

Why would Iran nuke people?

i think people are getting to carried away with propaganda.

Originally posted by i4cu2
I believe that if allowed to produce nuclear bombs that Iran will use a proxy to nuke a western city. Perhaps not Israel because even the nut job Ahmadinejad knows Israel would make his country a wasteland.

First o fall Ahmadinajad is not a nutcase and in fact he makes very solid points
which no government on earth can logically challange

eg.. if jews where killed by germans in europe why wasent a jewish homeland built in europe why must palestinians pay for the crimes against the jews carried out by europeans.

Secondly he does not control the armed forces or secret service of Iran :

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by i4cu2
I do think Iran’s proxy’s will get a nuclear device on a ship and a western port city will be bombed.

No they won't and they never will.

Originally posted by i4cu2
If anyone thinks Iran wanting a nuke and yet has no intention of using it, I would like to hear your explanation. If you do think Iran will use a nuke on another country how do you think the situation should be handled.

mate seriously do you actually belive Iran was going to use WMD?

if they wanted to secretly use WMD all they had to do was secretly attack western countries with VX Gas during the Iraq invasion and smuggle a few barrels of that stuff into Iraq and Iraq would have gotton 100% of the blame but they didn't.

Think about that for a minute.

Originally posted by iqonx

Why would Iran nuke people?

i think people are getting to carried away with propaganda.

Maybe its because of the story that one of their leaders has a crazy vision about bringing about the end times?...

Somebody posted a thread to say "why cant they follow a few certain rules and stop building nuclear power plants / weapons" I can understand both sides, Iran has got Israel and America near its boarders wagering a war on the Muslim community which is also a war against there culture, I can total understand why Iran is wanting the right to defend themselves, If the case was reversed for instance and Britain was surrounded by "Muslim countries" and "France" has just been invaded by a Muslim nation due it having WMD's and lots of atrocities going on, As a British subject I would want the right to defend my country and culture with what ever means is possible and if that means nuclear then so be it, but then if a Muslim country turned around and told us that we could not build nuclear power plants and weapons because we might use them against them, I certain know what I would say to that but I wont write it here, lol

iqonx,

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quote "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini." His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, even though such slogans are still regularly used at government
rallies.

Addressing about 4000 students gathered in an Interior Ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and a point "where the annihilation of the Zionist regime will come".

english.aljazeera.net...

Sounds to me as if Ahmadinejad wants to wipe the Jews off the land. He also wants nuclear weapons....why??? He dosen't want nuclear power which the west and the UN are willing to help them achieve. He wants nuclear weapons and yet you state catergorically that of course he wouldn't use them. Then why build them?



You say "eg.. if jews where killed by germans in europe why wasent a jewish homeland built in europe why must palestinians pay for the crimes against the jews carried out by europeans"

Why did the west create Saudi Arabia and a few other middle east states? Israel isn't the only nation carved out of the middle east by europeans/the west. Also Jews have a connection to the land there as much as any arab. Palestinians don't have a history as a people in todays palestine. They belonged to bordering countrys and weren't a seperate nation.


Israel makes up just under 1% of the total land of the middle east. Is that small piece of land worth another generation or two of palestinians continuing a losing struggle? If they invested just 10% of the effort they put into the intifida into building a functioning nation they would compete with Israel economically. They are a smart and talented people who instead of building a future now has a society built around death. Their childern celebrate death as earnestly as western childern celebrate sports. Young childerns shows under the PA preach how wonderful it is to die as a martyr. With such rhetoric brain washing their childern I see nothing but pain and misery for them. Heck their whole society seems to be a death cult that will become self fulfilling.

Originally posted by iqonx

Originally posted by i4cu2

If Iran gets the nuclear bomb it desperately wants, do you think the West is in danger? I should say is a nuclear wielding Iran a serious threat to Jerusalem, London, New York or Sydney?

Why would Iran nuke people?

i think people are getting to carried away with propaganda.

Originally posted by i4cu2
I believe that if allowed to produce nuclear bombs that Iran will use a proxy to nuke a western city. Perhaps not Israel because even the nut job Ahmadinejad knows Israel would make his country a wasteland.

First o fall Ahmadinajad is not a nutcase and in fact he makes very solid points
which no government on earth can logically challange

eg.. if jews where killed by germans in europe why wasent a jewish homeland built in europe why must palestinians pay for the crimes against the jews carried out by europeans.

Secondly he does not control the armed forces or secret service of Iran :

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by i4cu2
I do think Iran’s proxy’s will get a nuclear device on a ship and a western port city will be bombed.

No they won't and they never will.

Originally posted by i4cu2
If anyone thinks Iran wanting a nuke and yet has no intention of using it, I would like to hear your explanation. If you do think Iran will use a nuke on another country how do you think the situation should be handled.

mate seriously do you actually belive Iran was going to use WMD?

if they wanted to secretly use WMD all they had to do was secretly attack western countries with VX Gas during the Iraq invasion and smuggle a few barrels of that stuff into Iraq and Iraq would have gotton 100% of the blame but they didn't.

Think about that for a minute.

Iran would nuke people because they are fighting for something stronger than pride in their country, or whatever you want to call it. They are fighting for their religion, and that makes people make illogical, radical decisions. If the USA feels that it is, in any way, threatened by Iran we should and will destroy them, if not only to stop that many people from spreading the hate they call Islam(their interpretation) to others.

Originally posted by worksoftplayhard
well im suprised they didnt say this sooner. one question i have is if the easteners want a peacefull world too, why the hell cant they follow a few simple rules.... like dont build nuclear power plants!! how hard is it to comprehend with them!

Just like western countries don't have nuclear power plants?

Originally posted by Knights
I fully support Israel.

Why?

I hear this morning that anti American and anti Israeli demonstrations are taking place around Lebanon. I wondered how long it would take. I would expect that Britain will get dragged into this somehow (we are playing host to some US bunker busters).

The British armed forces don’t have the capacity to do what it is currently doing around the Middle East, let alone anything else. So I hope we keep out of the current situation. If America wants a war with Iran I hope we stay well away from it in terms of providing people and equipment.

The public (myself included) has had enough of Bush’s crusades of the last few years and Tony Blair would just be made more unpopular by supporting another. The National Health Service is under funded and hospitals are closing. But hey, we have the money to go trotting off to Iran and cause another mess!

Originally posted by Regenmacher
War in general is rooted in debt. Currently the American manufacturing base is on its deathbed, and it is suffering from a $700 billion annual trade deficit. The US is borrowing over $2 billion a day (mainly from Asia) to just float the debt and over $400 million/day in just the interest payment on its $8+ trillion of national debt. The war economy is about all the US has keeping it afloat, were as war with Iran is a yet another gamble for time and resources. Tick tock...when the credit runs out, the proxy wars go global.
[edit on 24-7-2006 by Regenmacher]

I agree with this, as corporate profits for the oil companies have skyrockted (record profits) while our economy has "maintained". I believe this will be a 30's Japan scenario. The US will begin world domination with the European Union. I don't want to sound lile the crazie's out there but I do see that history repeats itself and every world power in history who begins to attcak and is succesful - keeps going until they fall.