The United States was NOT founded on Christianity!

-George Washington~Deist "He refused to kneel in Church and take communion" Him kneeling at Valley Forge is a fictitious rendering by the artist.

-John Adams~ Unitarian "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion"

~Benjamin Franklin~Vistied the infamous Hellfire Club freguently [during his time in England] (dedicated to "black magic", and political conspiracies) "he did not believe in the immortality of the soul and believe evil to be 'permissable' because presumably if God created everything he created evil as well" A Letter to Ezra Stiles president of Yale that he "doubted the divinity of Christ, but believes in his moral teachings"

~Thomas Paine~Deist author of "The Age of Reason", "The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system"

~Thomas Jefferson~ Speaking on "this loathsome combination between Church and State" he said, "Question with boldness even the existence of god, for if there be one he must more approve the homage of reason over that of blind fear". In 1802 he made the first amendment to build a wall of separation between Church and State. "I do not find in Orthodox Christianity not one redeeming feature". Also..."The Christian god is cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust"...Also "Religions are all alike-founded upon fables and mythologies."

~James Madison~"What has been Christianity's fruits?-Superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

The Founding Fathers did NOT put "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience, nor did they put "In God We Trust" on US currency.

*"Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegience by an Act of Congress in 1954 during the McCarthy hysteria.

*"In God We Trust" was added to US currency [coins] in 1864 and became the official motto of the US only in 1956

-The motto conceived by the founding fathers was "Out of many, One"

I wonder if our Founding Fathers would be elected NOW?

The United States of America was meant to be SECULAR, and should ALWAYS REMAIN SECULAR!


www.freethinkerscs.com...
www.nobeliefs.com...
www.religioustolerance.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
skeptically.org...


Do not let anyone rewrite our history!

unfortunately for us, we've been outmuscled by the irrational sheep who've been led by their noses for millenia.

What, pray tell, is the point of this thread other than to state the facts of history?

Well. We know it as fact. But I suppose their are many people who do not. Although, I don't think any of those people would be on ATS in teh first place. So yes, these are rather pointless here on ATS (it might help a few 'lost souls', ).

Originally posted by Astronomer70
What, pray tell, is the point of this thread other than to state the facts of history?

The point is, is that I have heard many times that America was founded on Christianity and it wasn't. The point is in the title.

It's a timely reminder. Hooray for secularism!

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Good post RetinoidReceptor, old news to some but I think informative news to others.
I read once that there was a vote on which language was to be used in America as well, I believe the vote was for German or English. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

the US may not be founded by Christianity, but we are a representive democracy, and the majority of Americans since most likly the founding of our country have been Christian therefore althoe it may not be permanent Christianity does rule the country.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
Christianity does rule the country.

No Christianity doesn't rule the country. Just because most people in the US are Christian does not mean their RELIGION, rules anything.

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AWESOME dude....i totally agree with you 110% and its great that you found the quotes to back it up....great work.

Secular nations imho are more stable and produce a much healthier(not necessarily physical healthiness) citizenry.....once again great post!!



[edit on 22-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

Originally posted by 25cents
unfortunately for us, we've been outmuscled by the irrational sheep who've been led by their noses for millenia.

LOL... really ... ?? How is that ? How is your life controled by Christianity ? I mean, I'm not a Christian so I would really like to know how did that happened?
Maybe your life sucks, becuase you make it suck? So why blame on Christians or anyone else?

As to Christianity beeing a majority in this country ??? ROFL ...
Oh that WAS FUNNY! I mean there are a big number of Christians in this country, but they don't control my life neither have they outmuscled me. I have no idea what Galaxy you live in ?

You may not be an "irrational sheep", but you sure seem to suffer of the "martyr complex".

Really, i would really like an example of how your life is so disturbed by the "irrational sheep" ? Please .. just one.

For one I cant get married

two we cant use emryonic stem cells

three almost didnt get HPV-Vaccine for Women because of...you guessed it Focus on the Family....

those are just three "little" things.....

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
For one I cant get married

Why ? if you're gay, than you also know that marriage IS between MAn & woman, In EVERY RELGION. You tell me what religion allows gay marriage? So why balem it only on Christianity. ??? why ? why not blame it on Buddhism? they don't allow gay marriage either.

two we cant use emryonic stem cells

Sure we can.. Otherwise there would be no embryonic stem cell-research. But there IS. So that means stem -cells can be used. Now there is a difference between CONTROLLED embryonic stem cell research and going on an aborting rampage as an excuse to "save lifes".

How many babies is your life worth ?

three almost didnt get HPV-Vaccine for Women because of...you guessed it Focus on the Family....

hmmm... this says otherwise. But than again, if it is a vaccien that can cause problems in the poor girls reproductive system, why use ? So they can later on possibly have deformed children? If there are so many doubts about this treatment than it should not be used.

And still that doesnt explain how does Christianity control your life. I mean bills and laws pass thoru Senate and Congress, are they all Christians ??? LOL .. I doubt it.

So unless you're a gay woman stuck in a wheelchair with a spinal cord injry, for example... i don't think you can complain much.

Still, how does Christianity control your life?

I ran across this following Link a while back, and found it was a quite well prepared Essay on this subject.

RetinoidReceptor had noted one of Jim's Essay's, but I felt this one should also be included for review.

www.nobeliefs.com...

The United States: A Country founded on Paganism
by Pagan Jim
Originated: 20 March 2005
Additions: 11 May 2006

.....So if we wish to find the origins of a government based on Paganism, we must establish two things:
1. The lawful documents, symbols and mottoes of the founding government do not contain any mention of Christian, Moslem, or Jewish religions.
2. The documents, symbols and mottoes of the founding government describe Pagan deities and concepts.

Since the government in question involves the founding documents and symbols of the United States of America, we must satisfy the above two criteria with evidence for Paganism and a lack of evidence for Christianity, Judaism, or Islam......

It goes on, using this as the Guide, and has some very good observations.

Ciao

Shane

98 plus% that say they are christians arent truly followers of christ but another gospel. They basically follow Paul, Galtionism, and the Holy Roman Empire. Mixing and intermingling Law and Grace cancels each other out

All that stuff about kneeling etc is bs. All God wants is for you to be honest with him and quit praying the same prayers over and over again...gimme gimme gimme.

Whats that same old prayer done at dinner tables and at Thanksgiving time.."Bless this food to the nourishment of our bodies: I cant tell ya how sick God is of hearing that one

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Why ? if you're gay, than you also know that marriage IS between Man & woman, In EVERY RELGION. You tell me what religion allows gay marriage? So why blame it only on Christianity. ??? why ? why not blame it on Buddhism? they don't allow gay marriage either.

Gay-Marriage
First and foremost because neither Buddhism nor Islam are major factors in our country.....second....Paganism.....Greeks.....ROMANS.....homosexuality and marriage has been around for ALONG time.....so don't go half off all half cocked....thus far you've just spouted talking points and yet to give any links for your arguments as the rest of us have...so quit spouting opinion and get some research.

Sure we can.. Otherwise there would be no embryonic stem cell-research. But there IS. So that means stem -cells can be used. Now there is a difference between CONTROLLED embryonic stem cell research and going on an aborting rampage as an excuse to "save lives".

GWB vetos stem cell bill
Did you not notice that GB just vetoed the bill at the MAJORITY of America wanted..... we can no longer use or grow embryos or harvest them from willing women.....This has nothing to do with abortion NOTHING...you need to understand a topic before you go off on it....I understand that you feel passionately but you should at least KNOW what it is before you argue against it.

How many babies is your life worth ?

This comment is rude and crude.....seriously.....embryos are MICROSCOPIC....you cannot see them....if they are life then every time you smell feces or urine you are inhaling life.....so common this comment is just degrading.

hmmm... this says otherwise. But than again, if it is a vaccine that can cause problems in the poor girls reproductive system, why use ? So they can later on possibly have deformed children? If there are so many doubts about this treatment than it should not be used.

What says i see no link.....so no comment.

So unless you're a gay woman stuck in a wheelchair with a spinal cord injury, for example... i don't think you can complain much.

No comment other than you cannot be serious....

[edit on 22-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
First and foremost because neither Buddhism nor Islam are major factors in our country.....second....Paganism.....Greeks.....ROMANS.....homosexuality and marriage has been around for ALONG time.....so don't go half off all half cocked....thus far you've just spouted talking points and yet to give any points for your arguments as the rest of us have...so quit spouting opinion and get some research.

Oh no dear .. YOU are the one who needs to RESEARCH PLENTY !... I never said homosexuality didn't exist before. I said NO RELIGON allows gay marriage. not even the Greeks or the Romans or even Pagans... Homosexuality was something Romans and Greeks did "for fun", there were no legal gay couples, there were men and women (usually welathy) that indulged in homosexual practices, but gay marriage was a NO,NO. Study!

Did you not notice that GB just vetoed the bill at the MAJORITY of America wanted.....

The majority ? Says who ? the majorty of Congress is NOT the majority of the ppl. The only thing he did was prevent that ppl go on an aborting rampage using the stem cell research as an excuse. And tha'ts very well donne.

How many babies is your life worth ?

This comment is rude and crude.....seriously.....embryos are MICROSCOPIC....you cannot see them....if they are life then every time you smell feces or urine you are inhaling life.....so common this comment is just degrading.

No its not. Microscopic or not and e,bryo is ALIVE, otherwise it would not grow and develop or even die. What is rude and crude is YOUR thinking. that just because something doesnt have the right size it can be killed.

So embryos can be killed as much as we wish because they are "microscopic", meaning they have the "wrong size". Aren't you gald your mother didn't think that way. Your poor mother actually loved you from the moment you were microscopic, she gave you the opportunity of life, so that now you can sit at a keyboard, adovcating the murder of what you once were.

So unless you're a gay woman stuck in a wheelchair with a spinal cord injry, for example... i don't think you can complain much.

No comment other than you cannot be serious....

OH.. I AM VERY serious ! VERY ! I see all these ppl like you whinning about Christians,a nd how christians control their lifes....I eman as a non-Christians, I would really like to see the basis of these claims. I ask for an example al all i get is more whinnig and liberalistic propaganda with no base thought or whatsoever, just parroting the matras they hear.

Why ? if you're gay, than you also know that marriage IS between MAn & woman, In EVERY RELGION.

No marriage is not between a man and a woman in every religion. Besides, America is the center of Western life (capitalism, movies, food, liberalism). Many other western countries allow gay marriage. Yet why aren't we? Because CHRISTIANS. And what is the main argument? Because the old testament talks about gay marriage (yet Christians say they don't follow the OT), and Paul's ramblings (yet isn't Christianity supposed to be about JESUS?!)

Now there is a difference between CONTROLLED embryonic stem cell research and going on an aborting rampage as an excuse to "save lifes".

How many people would really just have babies and abort just for embryonic stem cell research? Seriously, there are enough abortions in America that that would not need to be done. Also cloning. Why can't anyone clone? Because it is against "god". What about cloning organs from the people who needs them? No, transplantation makes much more sense so they can take immune suppressant drugs for the rest of their life.

How many babies is your life worth ?

You mean how many dead/not full developed embryos that would be discarded are millions of lives worth? Right?

Still, how does Christianity control your life?

Christians are seeking to control this nation. And politicans are playing right in their hand, speaking biblical verses (which Bush has done numerous times), saying that we are a Christian nation founded on Christian morals (which is the reason why I made this thread). The founding fathers would not EVER be able to win in any branch of government today. Is it because they are stupid? They couldn't handle? No it is because incompetent people are elected if they play the right tune to Christians (I think there should be prayer in school, I think the ten commandments should be in court houses, I think gay marriage is wrong, I think abortion is wrong, the US was founded on Christian morals). Politicans couldn't give 2 s*** about those issues!

I think it is so funny how so many Christians play the victim and say how the US is moving towards Satanism because prayer in public school is no longer allowed, Under God in the pledge was almost taken out, ETC. Well guess what? Our nation was not supposed to have any of that to begin with. Sheesh.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Why ? if you're gay, than you also know that marriage IS between MAn & woman, In EVERY RELGION.

Good grief, i have to wonder how old you ppl are ? You nca have been in thsi world for too long... you must be "microscopic" ..lol Give me an example of a Religion that DOES and LEGALIZAES gay marriages. I'll wait.

How many people would really just have babies and abort just for embryonic stem cell research? Seriously, there are enough abortions in America that that would not need to be done. Also cloning. Why can't anyone clone? Because it is against "god". What about cloning organs from the people who needs them? No, transplantation makes much more sense so they can take immune suppressant drugs for the rest of their life.

How many women get un-wanted preganncies? how many teenagers? Millions.. so there you have your answer. Its already bad enough as it is, noone needs to make it worse udner the excuse of "saving lifes" . There is yet a life to be saved by embryonic stemm cells, and by the way, Bush only controlled the federal funding for it... he didn't stop it, and also there are plenty of weakthy ppl flooding the research labs with their own private donations.. so what the ehck is the whinning about ??? there are plenty of dead children out there waiting to save your life. BE HAPPY !

I can't even think about what would happen if these labs started paying for embryos. $1000/ embryo or more ... that would make alot of ppl "get pregnant"

How many babies is your life worth ?

You mean how many dead/not full developed embryos that would be discarded are millions of lives worth? Right?

You know very well that these labs don't use only naturally aborted babies... and if you beleive that, you need a reality check up.

Still, how does Christianity control your life?

Christians are seeking to control this nation.

So are the gays, the Black Muslems, and all the otehr fanatcial groups. And than what ? They may seek it, but how exactly will they get it, when THEY ARE NOT a majority ?

And politicans are playing right in their hand, speaking biblical verses (which Bush has done numerous times), saying that we are a Christian nation founded on Christian morals (which is the reason why I made this thread).
The founding fathers would not EVER be able to win in any branch of government today. Is it because they are stupid? They couldn't handle? No it is because incompetent people are elected if they play the right tune to Christians (I think there should be prayer in school, I think the ten commandments should be in court houses, I think gay marriage is wrong, I think abortion is wrong, the US was founded on Christian morals). Politicans couldn't give 2 s*** about those issues!.
I think it is so funny how so many Christians play the victim and say how the US is moving towards Satanism because prayer in public school is no longer allowed, Under God in the pledge was almost taken out, ETC. Well guess what? Our nation was not supposed to have any of that to begin with. Sheesh.

The nation wasn't suppose to have any of what ? Religion? where did you get that ?
what exactly was this Nation not suppose to have ?

[edit on 22-7-2006 by BaastetNoir]

Let me respond by saying that the above post of quotes is erroneous in its conclusion and that the vast body of evidence that is the writings and quotes by the founding fathers afirm that while our government is not religious in nature it is certainly founded on CHRISTIAN principles. Further the founding fathers considered christian virtue and values essential to the continuance of this experiment called democracy and self rule. I will provide a few quotes of my own to offset the above. If you do comprehensive research of the writings of the founding fathers you will be forced to conclude that the quotes above are misleading concerning their intent and opinion.

First George Washington: Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor;

This is from a public address on the day he established thanksgiving as a national holiday. This quote makes it abundandly clear where President Washington placed the responsiblity of government toward the almighty. If you want to read the rest of this document which is full of governmental references to God look herelink

Of similar tone and verbage is the Official proclaimation by John Hancock, serving as govenor commemorating thanksgiving. I do earnestly recommend, that we may join the penitent confession of our Sins, and implore the further continuance of the Divine Protection, and Blessings of Heaven upon this People; especially that He would be graciously pleased to direct, and prosper the Administration of the Federal Government, and of this, and the other States in the Union

John Adams also acknowledged the role of the almighty in government and declaired a day of prayer and fasting while govenor of MA. THE supreme Ruler of the Universe, having been pleased, in the course of his Providence, to establish the Independence of the United States of America, and to cause them to assume their rank, amount the nations of the Earth, and bless them with Liberty, Peace and Plenty; we ought to be led by Religious feelings of Gratitude; and to walk before Him, in all Humility, according to his most Holy Law.-But, as the depravity of our Hearts has, in so many instances drawn us aside from the path of duty, so that we have frequently offended our Divine and Merciful Benefactor; it is therefore highly incumbent on us, according to the ancient and laudable practice of our pious Ancestors, to open the year by a public and solemn Fast.-That with true repentance and contrition of Heart, we may unitedly implore the forgiveness of our Sins, through the merits of Jesus Christ, and humbly supplicate our Heavenly Father, to grant us the aids of his Grace, for the amendment of our Hearts and Lives, and vouchsafe his smiles upon our temporal concerns:

John Adams made a similar proclaimation as for a national day of prayer and fasting when he was president. Here is his quote: AS the safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and blessing of Almighty God; and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him,

As to the infamous author of "The Age of Reason" Thomas Payne, He was so reviled by society at the time for what was considered sacriligious tripe that he was buried in a farmers field because there was no cemetary that would accept his corpse. Benjamin Franklin sternly warned him not to print his book because of its attack on what Franklin believed to be essential to right living, namely religion. see link

As to the infamous wall of separation between church and state, you should read the whole letter not just the misquoted phrase that the supreme court based its decision on. Here is the whole letter concerning the supposed separation which is no separtion at all. Link to letter

I will provide one more link for you. It is to George Washington's farewell address. If you want to know Washington's opinion on God in Government, his last words in office should be quite pertinant. Link

And lest I portray Payne in too harsh a light, one should read what he said about the teaching of science in France. link

If you want to play revisionist and justify your own culture by misquoting the founding fathers go ahead in your ignorance. I can prove to you by misuse of quotation that Jesus wanted people to be filled with demons but that does not make that statement true. Neither does the original post prove that this country was secular at its inception.