OK, you've got an opinion? Let's see if it holds water.

First thing, I'm stating out front that I blame Hez(Syria, Iran) AND Israel for the suffering of the Lebenese people. The questions that arise:

Could the Lebenese army contain Hez? Appearently not.

Could the average Achmed do anything without retaliation to him and his family by Hez? I seriously doubt it.

Could Israel have done things differently to handle this situation? DAMN STRAIGHT!

I did a Mapquest search on Syria/Lebenon and there were unoccupied areas that could have been bombed, stopping those routes from rearming Hez. NOT areas that were inhabitted.

Bombing the airport? Hell the Israeli airforce could knock out any Syrian aircraft that was trying to give aid to Hez.

So, Israel has killed infrastructure that the civillians could use to get the hell out of the Dodge, leaving them at the wiles of the competing sides. I wonder WHY?

Thoughts?

What exactly do you think Israel should have done differently, Intrepid?

Should they have released prisoners in return for the captured soldiers?

What about the next time Hezbollah kidnapped an Israeli?

Originally posted by Langolier
What exactly do you think Israel should have done differently, Intrepid?

Should they have released prisoners in return for the captured soldiers?

What about the next time Hezbollah kidnapped an Israeli?

I think I was pretty clear on how this could have been handled differently so that innocent people wouldn't be harmed. Do you have a problem on a smaller body count?

Is this attack a deterrant? From what I understand the initial attack on Gaza ended up with two more kidnapees, then a fourth. Obviously, what Israel is currently doing isn't doing anything but killing. They havent deterred the kidnappings at all.

BTW, where was everyone when Hazbollah was doing this pre- 9/11? Weren't they supposed to be worse than Al-Qaida? Where was the uproar before?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420


BTW, where was everyone when Hazbollah was doing this pre- 9/11? Weren't they supposed to be worse than Al-Qaida? Where was the uproar before?

Dude, let's stick to the topic please.

All of this isn't new. Israel and Hez have been at it for a while. I'm sure Israel knows what routes Hez members take, how they get weapons into the country, and what needs to be done to isolate them.
Why didn't they do anything before? Because they couldn't. Had they tried something before, the international community would have went nuts. But, Hez's unprovoked attack gave Israel the greenlight to go ahead and eliminate them. As you stated, the Lebonese army more than likely can't do it themselves.

When any country goes to war innocent people die. That what makes it so sad and heinous. It cannot be helped and we cannot stop it.

I think Lebanon was deliberatley used as the "pawn" country because of thier poor infrastructure and gov instability. Hezbollah is able to bunker down without any recourse from the Lebonese and lest not forget that many of the Lebonese people actually support Hezbollah and regard them as hero's.

I disagree with you.

Rocket attacks and other such have been occuring for the last 6 years.

What we have now is the famous case of "the terrorists who poked the bear with the stick ONE too many times" and has gotten the claws this time.

Am I happy about this happening-D'UH-NO!

But as I have asked and stated so many times now-"who is going to stop hezbolla?"

As for an exchange-hmm 1000-1500 terroriss for 2 men-yeah, sure , right, ok

Also, that is a very slippery slope to start sliding down, as it would further incurage terrorist kidnapings.

Bye the way, I know I will regret this, but, Intrepid-you talk as if you think you have a better way-please humor me and detail it for me.

Anything you want so long as the solution includes-retun the men, stop ALL forms of attacks and remove the threat from N Lebanon-and we all can see leaving hezbolla in place is not solving the problem

It definitely could have been handled differently.

"Hez" fighters could have moved to those unoccupied regions you mentioned,
There, is where they would have had their butts handed to them.

Instead, like usual, they mingle with the general populace.
Inviting an attack..Israel RSVP's the invitation. ( I believe Hez, did NOT expect it this time)

I agree with you spacedoubt, they probably did not expect that responce.

But, as I stated before, it is what happens to you when you poke the bear one too many times................

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I disagree with you.

No problem, that's what this site is about, as long as it's within the T&C.

Rocket attacks and other such have been occuring for the last 6 years.

Links please? It has been a tired arguement, without substance.

As for an exchange-hmm 1000-1500 terroriss for 2 men-yeah, sure , right, ok

2 thoughts came to mind here, 1, that's very unrealistic. 2- Damn, Israel is WAY better at this type of abduction than Hez is.

Bye the way, I know I will regret this, but, Intrepid-you talk as if you think you have a better way-please humor me and detail it for me.

I do but I don't think anyone will like it, it makes sense.

Anything you want so long as the solution includes-retun the men, stop ALL forms of attacks and remove the threat from N Lebanon-and we all can see leaving hezbolla in place is not solving the problem

See above.

One thing of concern, for me, is that the Hezbollah militants claim their killing and "kidnapping" of Israeli soldiers was in response to the Prior incident involving an Israeli gunship rocketing the Lebanese coast. i.e. the "wedding party".

If that be the case, then such actions would seem a retaliatory "response" by Hezbollah, as opposed to an aggressive "attack". ?

Not that I side with either, with regards to the manner in which this Whole situation is being "handled", but, as always, there are two sides to every story and, in my opinion, neither side appears willing to concede fault on any level.

It would almost seem that third-party "desires" are or have been at the helm, per se. ?

Again, in my opinion, regardless of the particulars, the Entire situation seems to have Rapidly escalated beyond the "assumed" expectations of either "side".



$ .02

? thoughts ?

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
One thing of concern, for me, is that the Hezbollah militants claim their killing and "kidnapping" of Israeli soldiers was in response to the Prior incident involving an Israeli gunship rocketing the Lebanese coast. i.e. the "wedding party".

If that be the case, then such actions would seem a retaliatory "response" by Hezbollah, as opposed to an aggressive "attack". ?

That's the problem with this situation, all action, NO thinking. BLAME THE OTHER GUY!

It would almost seem that third-party "desires" are or have been at the helm, per se. ?

So I'm not the only tool that thinks this.

Again, in my opinion, regardless of the particulars, the Entire situation seems to have Rapidly escalated beyond the "assumed" expectations of either "side".



$ .02

? thoughts ?

"Either" may be a little too heavy but I think you're on to something here.

First of all is not the first time that hezbollah and Israel has gotten into some kind of arrangement to release people, that is how the new Hezbollah leader came to be so popular.

Second they have been at each other for a long time.

Third why now? Why at this time and why to the point of destroying a country like Lebanon That was doing very well on its own.

First they allow hezbollah get stronger in Lebanon and now is to much to let it go any bigger.

While I see all the negative propaganda coming from the media about what Iran say or no say about Israel rights to live as a nation . . . Israel decided instead of going to the hart of the problem . . . it targets a country that can not protect itself . . . from Israel and neither from hezbollah.

Ask me if I feel is an agenda behind all these attacks

Yes it is

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
If that be the case, then such actions would seem a retaliatory "response" ... as opposed to an aggressive "attack". ?

How far back do we go? and for that matter how far back do we stop looking? This region has been caught in a cycle of violence for a long time. ALL sides are at least equally to blame.

Bombing Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah is like bombing Italy to destroy the mafia.

Until people in this region decide to address each other's grievances, the bloodlust will continue. Seems many around the world are happy picking sides and cheering for their team. Hoo-rah!
.

Originally posted by intrepid
Links please? It has been a tired arguement, without substance.

I don't know about constant rocket barrage, but there have been incidents.

In 2000 they kidnapped (and killed) 3 IDF soldiers

In '03 -
www.un.org...

New York, 10 August 2003 - Statement attributable to the Spokesman for the Secretary-General on the situation in northern Israel

The Secretary-General of the United Nations strongly condemns the shelling of anti aircraft missiles by Hezbollah into Israel that cost the life of a young Israeli of 16 and wounded 4 other civilians in the town of Shlomi. This represents a serious violation of the blue line and of Security Council's resolutions. He extends his sincere condolences and sympathy to the families of the victims.

The Secretary-General is deeply concerned by the current escalation in the area and calls upon all parties involved to fully respect the blue line. He urges all governments that have influence on Hezbollah to deter it from any further actions which could increase the tension in the area. Meanwhile, he calls upon the Government of Israel to exercise utmost restraint.

I'm sure it won't be that hard finding other incidents...

Well said Gools.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by intrepid
Links please? It has been a tired arguement, without substance.

I don't know about constant rocket barrage, but there have been incidents.

In 2000 they kidnapped (and killed) 3 IDF soldiers

Bingo, thanks for the legwork. 3 people, 6 years ago. That's not what is being proclaimed this week. NOW it's CONSTANT barrages. That's a huge point imo. Propaganda. I'm sure there are more BUT does it even reach the #300? Highly unlikely.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Hez is as culpable as Israel, it just seems like the propaganda mill is cutting Israel WAY more slack.

Originally posted by Gools
How far back do we go? and for that matter how far back do we stop looking? This region has been caught in a cycle of violence for a long time. ALL sides are at least equally to blame.

Bombing Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah is like bombing Italy to destroy the mafia.

Until people in this region decide to address each other's grievances, the bloodlust will continue.

Gools,

I wanted to minimize the quote, here, but All the above is spot-on, IMO.

The current "situation" is just that, although the overall "situation" has existed seemingly as the sands of time, and, Yes, i agree that ALL "sides" hold equal blame for their actions, or over-.

Your analogy, in my opinion, perfectly describes that which we are seeing take place.

As for "addressing each other's grievances", I'd have to say, Hell, they're addressing them Alright, but it seems neither has a grasp on how to do so in an appropriate and civil manner.

Flies to honey? Want me to change my approach/mind ... make me Want to, and consider All concessions.

I was watching CNN today, and they interviewed a Lebanese Christian. And he said that where he lived, it was mostly Christian, and Israel bombed cars and stuff that he said, "they should have known they were not any threat". He said that he believes Israel is trying to incite a civil war between the Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Muslims, but the reporter said it is doing the opposite, that it is bringing them together. And if nothing comes of this, only the bombing of Lebanon, Hezbollah and other terrorist groups will have a field day recruiting. Way to go Israel

Let us just add more hate and bad foreign policy to the US's plate. That is what truly makes me angry about all this...because the stupid muslims and jews in that region are basing fights and thousands dead and hundreds of thousands forced from their homes on a silly MYTH. And we are all affected. It pisses me off so much

[edit on 20-7-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]