Why do people keep calling Israel's attack "disproportional"?

300 people killed, thoulsands injured, a whole city distoyed, thoulsands with out homes, thoulsands runing around unable to get out while bombs keeps pounding lebanon.
If this isnt disproportioned and radical I dont know what it is.

It depends which side you favor. . . the Lebanese side, the Hezbollah side or the Israeli side. . .

While Israeli people has to hide in underground bunkers as Hezbollah pounded the Israel side . . .

The Lebanese just had to wander in their city with no place to hide and nowhere to go.

All comes to the same thing both sides careless about their people or each others people. . .

I am in favor of neither hezbollah or Israel going over board . . . but I feel for the people that are caught in the middle. . .

I hate when people wants to paint one side worst than the other when both sides are as evil. . .



[edit on 20-7-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
It depends with side you favor. . . the Lebanese side, the Hezbollah side or the Israeli side. . .

While Israeli people has to hide in underground bunkers as Hezbollah pounded the Israel side . . .

The Lebanese just had to wander in their city with no place to hide and nowhere to go.

All comes to the same thing both sides careless about their people or each others people. . .

I am in favor of neither hezbollah or Israel going over board . . . but I feel for the people that are caught in the middle. . .

I hate when people wants to paint one side worst than the other when both sides are as evil. . .

[edit on 20-7-2006 by marg6043]

Bingo Marg, the 2 sides, Hez(Syria, Iran) and the Israeli's are fighting their war on the backs of other people that are harmless to do anything. Vietnam? Korea, anyone?

Originally posted by intrepid

Bingo Marg, the 2 sides, Hez(Syria, Iran) and the Israeli's are fighting their war on the backs of other people that are harmless to do anything. Vietnam? Korea, anyone?

I hate the situation in the middle east, I hate the propaganda and how us the Americans have to take sides.

And you see that fighting their war on the backs of other people is exactly what we already did and we are doing in Iraq.

Is just evil . . . right now we can not longer tell who is worst than who.

Originally posted by marg6043
It depends with side you favor. . . the Lebanese side, the Hezbollah side or the Israeli side. . .

It's not about favoring anyone, the damage is no where compared to the one in lebanon, I just wach tv and it reminds me of a city from WWII burning in flames while people walk on the mountains of ruble, because thats how it looks, hesbolah aint saints , I know that, but what is israel doing?
It seems no one gives a damn about those peole, just because they are arabs so long nothing came from UN , no humanitarian aid, nothing, and remember this was a democratic state that was in favor of U.S policy, but ohh well it's arabic.

No one get's involved because this is a setup, israel iritates siria and eventualy makes siria enter the conflict, iran jumps in for siria, then us has a justified reason for taking iran and siria with the pretex of helping israel, and thats how the middle east is solved, next north corea, and so on, until one world goverment can be founded.

Got to eliminate all oposition so one world goverment can exist, when the world does as some one pleases and all is under the same influence only then things can start to merge.


[edit on 20-7-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by intrepid
You are forgetting the manta being spouted here, "Daily bombings of the civilians." Appearantly didn't happen.

So.....
Was Hez's unprovoked attack on Israel an act of war or not? I didn't quite catch your answer.

Nope, they just do it.

Got a link or source for that?

[edit on 20-7-2006 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
No it is about Israel saying to itself, They are sick and tired of being attacked now they are going to finish the job, whitch they should have finished off 6 years ago since the UN has not done nothing about it.

Although they say they are watching whot hey hit, it is obvious alot of civillains places are being hit, and they will not stop until they have eradicated Hezzbulla, and those in the roa will be killed also.....

And the UN or no one can stop it, Unless they Intervene with force.

Exactly, and that is why I salute Israel. All of this could have been avoided, but it wasn't. Blame U.N. incompetence and U.S. apathy if you must. Both had the power to cripple Hezbollah. A cease-fire is simply not an opption; it will only provide the radical islamists with a victory and further empower Hezbollah.

I'm sorry innocent Lebanonese are getting killed, but they are being killed because Hezbollah chooses to fight in civilian clothes, from within civilian settlements.

So.....
Was Hez's unprovoked attack on Israel an act of war or not? I didn't quite catch your answer.

Okay here it go's, couple of mexican gansters kidnap some americans and takes them over the border in mexico, what will hapen? the US will pound mexico with bombs ?
Would you distroy a whole country for 2 prisoners, kill inocent people , blow up their homes, and leave them with out medical help, with out food, with out a shelter, with no place to sleep?

Originally posted by pepsi78
Okay here it go's, couple of mexican gansters kidnap some americans and takes them over the border in mexico, what will hapen? the US will pound mexico with bombs ?
Would you distroy a whole country for 2 prisoners, kill inocent people , blow up their homes, and leave them with out medical help, with out food, with out a shelter, with no place to sleep?

Hell yes, I would.

Though I don't think Mexican gangstars are quite equatable to Hezbollah. Hezbollah is much more organized and heavily armed. They have representation in Lebanon's government, and have pledged to destroy Israel.

If some Mexican gangstars abducted some US boarder patrol agents the US would ask (order) the Mexican government to help get them back and to crack down on the gangsters. ...and they would, else we'd do the same thing Israel is doing.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Okay here it go's, couple of mexican gansters kidnap some americans and takes them over the border in mexico, what will hapen? the US will pound mexico with bombs ?
Would you distroy a whole country for 2 prisoners, kill inocent people , blow up their homes, and leave them with out medical help, with out food, with out a shelter, with no place to sleep?

Horrible comparison. Israel and Hezbollah have a history. If Mexico's sole purpose was to destroy the U.S. and they have tried to do so before. Then yeah, we'd pound Mexico.

(Oh and you seemed to have left out all the mortor and rocket attacks that occured with the kidnapping.)

Exactly, and that is why I salute Israel. All of this could have been avoided

Wait what do you mean by this statement, you mean killing hudreds of civilians, blowing up churces and homes?

but it wasn't. Blame U.N. incompetence and U.S. apathy if you must. Both had the power to cripple Hezbollah. A cease-fire is simply not an opption; it will only provide the radical islamists with a victory and further empower Hezbollah.

Ohh so for you it's more important to get victory at a posible list of 1000 inocent people geting killed, but oh well it's victory.

I'm sorry innocent Lebanonese are getting killed, but they are being killed because Hezbollah chooses to fight in civilian clothes, from within civilian settlements.

Hmm shoot the hostage?
What if it were you in their position, but you got the confort of not being there, not knowing what it is like, how about a couple of gansters come in your home and just because they are there, the swat just uses a c4 on your home kills all of your family with out even blinking, but after that says we got the gansters dont worry sir it's all well now,

Originally posted by pepsi78
Wait what do you mean by this statement, you mean killing hudreds of civilians, blowing up churces and homes?

link?
Since you're making it sound like they're doing this on purpose I take it you have the appropiate sources to show this.

Israel is surrounded by its very worst enemies, who have made no bones about their intentions. A tepid response to attacks on their nation would be worse than no response, at all.

[edit on 2006/7/21 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Israel is surrounded by it's very worst enemies, who have made no bones about their intentions. A tepid response to attacks on their nation would be worse than no response, at all.

Sorry Grady but where's the Beef? From Egypt? From Jordan? I don't see them as that "surrounded".

BTW, I wouldn't mind your input here.

Horrible comparison. Israel and Hezbollah have a history. If Mexico's sole purpose was to destroy the U.S. and they have tried to do so before. Then yeah, we'd pound Mexico.

Horrible comparison?
Okay let's see
Are the people in lebanon with out aid? YES
Are the people in lebanon with out shelter with out food? YES
Has the UN taken any mejure?NO
Have there been more cajulties than in israel?YES
Have there been more injured people than in israel?YES
Have there been more distruction to citys in lebanon?YES
While the hesbolah fires their pathetic catusa altilery ,israelian f16's pound beirut, a city once a heaven for turists and known for it's freedom in the middle east, with beautiful people which are sufering now because their home is battle grownd for others, how would you like if some one came and pooped in to your home?

(Oh and you seemed to have left out all the mortor and rocket attacks that occured with the kidnapping.)

That hapend as a result of israelian first atack, and not before.

This si basicly what hapend, the lebanon army does not have power to do anything , it's weak, if they had the power I'm sure they would of responded to israel, it's a weak army coming after a long civil war and can not have the power to stop any paramilitary militia, in stead israel came and said we will help you out, we will help you get rid of them, we will help you by boming the crap out of you, I'm sure that will atract simpaty for israel.



[edit on 20-7-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Hmm shoot the hostage?
What if it were you in their position, but you got the confort of not being there, not knowing what it is like, how about a couple of gansters come in your home and just because they are there, the swat just uses a c4 on your home kills all of your family with out even blinking, but after that says we got the gansters dont worry sir it's all well now,

Sorry Pepsi but that example is a little flawed...

You see the Lebanese citizens and their government have not done enough to prevent the terrorists(or gangsters in your example) from carrying out their attacks and it could even be argued that they are supporting them (not providing intelligence to the Israeli's etc).

If you invite the gangsters into your house then you have to live with the consequences.

Originally posted by intrepid
Sorry Grady but where's the Beef? From Egypt? From Jordan? I don't see them as that "surrounded".

I don't mean necessarily in the sense of being bounded by mortal enemies. Israel is planted in a region filled with mortal enemies. I hope that clarifies my meaning.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Israel is surrounded by its very worst enemies, who have made no bones about their intentions. A tepid response to attacks on their nation would be worse than no response, at all.

This is why Isreal has built itself up a very strong military. Any sign of weakness maybe fatal for Isreal.

Just because Isreal's accomplishments exceeded that of Hezbollah doesn't mean their actions were unreasonable.

They bombed Beriut because they were receiving rocket fire from there and had intelligence that Hez. leaders were in certain areas of Beruit. They were trying to stop the rocket attacks and disable the Hez. leadership. It wasn't Isreal's fault Hez. is cowering behind Lebanon's civillians. If it was your country being attacked, I think you would want your military to go after the perpretrators.

Rockets are still being launched from Lebanon into Isreal. If Isreal doesn't strike back swiftly, brutally, and decisively, then other Isreali enemies may see this as a sign of weakness and decide to attack Isreal.

Lebanon always knew what Hez.'s intentions were towards Isreal and still they let Hez. build bunkers and whatever on their border with Isreal. Come on, get a grip, Lebanon knew sooner or later Hez. would provoke Isreal enough for them to retaliate. If they wanted/needed help to get Hez. out of their country because their military was too weak to do it, I'm sure they could have asked for some help from the U.N. or one of their allies to get this paramilitary group out of their country

When a country is attacked, I see no reason why they shouldn't use their military to there fullest potential to stop the attacks on their people.

Wouldn't you want your country to do the same.



[edit on 21-7-2006 by Keyhole]

[edit on 21-7-2006 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by marg6043
Well the problem is that while targeting Hezbollah militants Israel attacks are also bringing casualties into the Lebanese population that has nothing to do with Hezbollah.

Going in full force into a country just to target one group could be seen as to excessive by some.

REPLY: Hi marg: I don't like the term disproportionate. I also disagree with civilians being in harms way, but Hezbubble places its forces in civilian neighborhoods for exactly that reason. They are cowards who won't fight in the open. Reports have said that Hezbubble are forming roadblocks for the express purpose of preventing civilians from leaving.

I must say that, seeing what has been happening in the region, and also touched with a bit of history, Isreal has been fighting for peace, where-as Palestine, Hamas and Huzbubble are fighting for victory; big difference.

Isreal left Lebanon as asked, and this happens. Isreal gives Palestine some of it's (non) occupied land, with the result that Hamas can launch attacks on Isreal from a closer distance.

One cannot negotiate or appease someone who's only wish is to see you dead.

As for taking sides, and if one looks at this in a religious light, God said that those who are on the side of the Jews will have favor.

My point is this: Hezbubble is not a nation or state; they are terrorists occupying Lebanese neighborhoods. Many say they want Isreal to end it's response. If you compare that with, say, a group of gangmembers in a house, and they are in a firefight with police, you do everything possible to bring an end to "the bad guys", not call a truce and have a discussion.

[edit on 21-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Horrible comparison?
Okay let's see
Are the people in lebanon with out aid? YES
Are the people in lebanon with out shelter with out food? YES
Has the UN taken any mejure?NO
Have there been more cajulties than in israel?YES
Have there been more injured people than in israel?YES
Have there been more distruction to citys in lebanon?YES
While the hesbolah fires their pathetic catusa altilery ,israelian f16's pound beirut, a city once a heaven for turists and known for it's freedom in the middle east, with beautiful people which are sufering now because their home is battle grownd for others, how would you like if some one came and pooped in to your home?

Yes it's a horrible comparrison and nothing you just wrote refuted that....
As far as food and aid.

Aid is coming...

* U.N. humanitarian chief Jan Egeland will travel to Beirut, hoping to win agreement to create safe routes into Lebanon for relief convoys.

* The Red Cross sent 22 tons of food and supplies, along with a nutritionist and a surgeon, from Beirut to Tyre, Lebanon, on Friday, according to the international relief agency.

That hapend as a result of israelian first atack, and not before.

No it didn't. As they kidnapped the soldiers they fired rockets and mortor rounds into Israel. That's what started this whole thing. This is common knowledge.