US government charges for evacuation

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Yes what many here do not understand, is that it was in fact a law passed in Congress, so it was "the law". I believe it was passed in 2003, if anyone else has any information..

This source says the law was passed in 1956 and re-approved in 2003.

washingtontimes.com...

Were it not for a 1956 law authorizing the State Department to charge evacuees the cost of their extraction. When a bipartisan Congress re-approved this law a few years ago, Mrs. Pelosi was in fact one of the 170 House Democrats who voted in favor.

Originally posted by stumason

So thats why there are tens of thousands of foriegn nationals there? They were all on holiday. Up last week, Lebanon was reclaiming it's place as the "Paris of the Meditteranean". But, as you quite obviously a cloistered Yank with a myopic view of the world, you seem to think it is unsafe. Quite the contrary. There were no travel warnings existing for Lebanon from our own Government prior to last weeks flare up.

Paris of the Mediterranean. How apt. Riots last year: 8,973 vehicles torched and Estimated damage at €200 Million. The fact that there is fighting going on kind of proves my thinking that it is unsafe, don’t you think? Or is that just my myopia? As for no travel warnings from your government, sounds like someone dropped the ball. Its funny that the Canadians were able to get the warning:
www.canadiancontent.net...
I like the part about the land mines. Makes me feel safe.

If by a "wreck", you mean a car accident, then no, but your anlogy is incorrect and no where near the point, so it's not worth debating. Try again. Big differenc ebetween having an accident and being cuaght up in an unexpected war.

How’s this for analogy? I go to a country in a hotbed of violence and fighting breaks out? Does that fit?

What do you mean "since"? You do know your history, I take it? Hez have been around for quite some time, at least 20 years. The tourist industry has been recovering quite well in Lebanon for several years now.

Yes they have been around for quite some time. That’s my point. Decades of an Iran/Syria backed radical religious militia roaming the streets does not a safe country make. And just because the tourism industry is doing well doesn’t mean that the tourists are smart. Besides, Beruit was trying to rebuild its industry.

How the hell else can the people get out when the bloody Israelis are bombing every road, bridge and runway within 100 miles? Not to include most traffic that attempts to use said roads.

They can get on the first available boat out of there and be grateful it is available, even if they have to sign a not promising to pay $150.

If the Israelis hadn't bombed the ONLY Airport to smithereeens, this would be a non-issue and the people could extract themselves, rather than requiring their Governemnts negotiate with Israel to allow them to be extracted. Is that too much to ask?

You’d have to ask the Israelis getting shelled by Syrian ordinance that came in on those same roads.

Jesus H Christ on a crutch, it's not rocket science mate and I bet my bottom dollar had you been trapped over there you would be singing a different tune......
In fact, why don't you go there. Go to Beirut now and then try and get back out again, on your own. Go on. If it's so damn easy, then go show them. Show us all wrong and how right you are. Oh...I forgot.... You can't even get into the country now, can you.... Kinda proves my point really, doesn't it?

So, you’re saying Beruit is hard to get out of? And it took live shells for you to realize this? By applying critical thinking and knowledge of the World, which you seem to think I lack, I deduced that Lebanon would not be a safe place to go in the first place, ergo I am not there. However, you are wrong about not being able to get in. Foot me the bill to Syria or Israel, or put me off the coast, and I can get in. I can get out again as well. Its called self reliance. However, if I get in a jam on the way out and the govt says “we’ll get you out if you’ll sign this note promising to reimburse us $150 because the rest of the sane world thinks coming here was a bad idea in the first place”, I’ll say “thank you, please” and be happy about it.

They went there for a holiday and certainly didn't expect a war. Again, how are they supposed to get out? And what do YOU think you pay your taxes for, if not for your Government to provide certain things for you? It's not so rich men can play with big bombs, the point of taxation is to enable the Government to provide for the people, after all, isn't that what it's there for? I don't know much about the buggered up state of affairs in your country, but we expect our Governments to take care of us in a time of need here. They are, after all, OUR servants and exist for one purpose, to SERVE us, not the other way around.

Sure. If you are a socialist. The role of the federal govt is to provide for a national defense. Not pay my bills. Not rebuild my house. Not rebuild your house. But to stomp a mud hole in somebody else. Everything else is supposed to fall to the state level, but socialists have been slowly hijacking the system. How’s that socialized medicine working out for you, by the way?
How about if the magnificent tourism board of Lebanon pays for the evacuation since it was they who promised these palm trees and blue skies, and it was they who could not control a militia that runs rampant in their own country. What? They can’t? Financial infrastructure not strong enough? Whaaaaa????

Jesus. You really are extremely ignorant, aren't you? Croatia is borderline EU and is a favourite holiday destination for alot of Europeans. Many buy property there and retire.

Borderline EU? Is that an insult or a compliment? What’s the criteria for joining? Must allow sex with minors? Legalize narcotics? Have a certain number of people killed over a soccer match? Make sure there are enough prostitutes for the world cup? Must have a certain number of youths willing to torch a city over not getting a govt. hand out? Of course, if this is what one can expect from some of the countries in the EU, I understand now why travel to near-third-world countries is appealing.
Ah, Croatia in springtime….
travel.state.gov...
“Although hostilities in all parts of the country ended in 1995, de-mining of areas along former confrontation lines is not complete. As of January 2006, it was estimated that 250,000 mines spread over nearly 500 square miles remained in Croatia and that de-mining operations will continue at least until 2010. Travelers in former conflict areas, including Eastern Slavonia, Brodsko-Posavska county, Karlovac county, areas around Zadar, and areas around the Plitvice Lakes region should exercise caution and not stray from known safe roads and areas. Mine clearance work may lead to the closure of major roads.”
Sounds like a little piece of heaven.

And as to your "Hey, weren't they supposed to be monitoring the peace on the Lebanese/Israeli border?". No, actually. They are monitoring the ceasefire between Israel and Syria.

Au contrare, muchacho…
www.iht.com...

The UN already has a monitoring force on the Lebanese-Israeli border known as Unifil, set up in March 1978 to oversee an Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon that took place 22 years later.

Led by a French general, it is made up of 2,000 soldiers from China, France, Ghana, India, Ireland, Italy and Poland, but is largely powerless militarily. Its mandate, renewed every six months, next expires on July 31.

Mark Regev, an Israeli Foreign Ministry, said the UN record on the border had undermined Israeli confidence in the ability of a UN force to maintain the peace.

"The Security Council calls for the disarming of Hezbollah, but at the same time Unifil has a cooperative relationship with Hezbollah," Regev said.

"Unfortunately, we have witnessed over the last years a dissonance between UN policies as decided in New York and between what UN representatives in Lebanon are doing on the ground," he said. "If the international community had shown greater determination, the current crisis in Lebanon could have been avoided."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Try to trivialise it all you like by using silly names, you only make yourself appear even more ignorant than you already are. It's not hard to spell...

hzmmmbleou…. Hmmambabab…. Muzzubledemah…. t…e…r…r…o…r…i…s…t. There. Much better.

If your referring to the "hundreds of US citizens killed by Hezbollah", they were marines sent to "stabalise" Lebanon after the another Israeli invasion. And, it isn't even proved they were involved, merely speculated that they were.

Wait…

wait…

I can’t breathe. So, you’re not only dismissing the deaths of the Marines, as well as other US citizens, but you are questioning Hezbubble’s role in terrorism? Now I understand where you’re coming from.

Don't forget, we get US news over here too and I see what you guys are being sppon fed about this whole thing, so it's hardly surprising some of you have the opinions you do. Compared to a proper News channel, ones like FOX and CNN I wouldn't even class it as Childrens shows. After that, very little content was offered up for the actual report, just alot of nice shots of explosions and the word terrorist every time an arab showed his face.....

I get my news from many, many sources, including Jane’s, but, least of all television. I used to turn to Reuters, BBC but their bias has been quite obvious for several years.

It's ok, you keep it.

Buy me another. I just broke the handle on this one.

Just think of how much the Government would charge if Halliburton did the evacuation!

Originally posted by chiS2000
Just think of how much the Government would charge if Halliburton did the evacuation!

Holy Moses! I can't count that high. Are you mad?!

This news article tells alot of how hard it is for the average person to get out of a war zone. Thankfully those people that were called morons were able to make it out ok, and thankfully everyone else that is making it out of there is doing so and we can only pray for those that are having a hard time finding a way to get out, to actually find their way. Fee or No Fee I'd help em, even if they do know what they got themselves into by going afar from home.

Original News Source

"There were four checkpoints everyone had to go into. The first was just totally chaotic."

They waited at the second checkpoint for six hours, and at the end of the wait, it was chaotic as well.

"Everyone was pushing and shoving, women were crying, saying, 'Here's my passport, here's my children, take my children, just take them, take them,'" Esseily said. "It was absolutely horrendous."

The Esseilys barely got through.

"My husband had the baby on top of his shoulders, to show that we had a baby," Monika Esseily recalled.

"It was hot, it was humid, and we just kind of squeezed in. I squeezed in with one of my children at the gate, and I said, 'Listen, my family's on the other side,' so they had to bring them in."

Then, suddenly, things got much easier. "Right when we passed the second one, we were met with the Marines," Esseily said.

"The Marines were just so sweet, they said, 'Here, I'll take your bags ... you're going to be on board pretty soon, you'll have food, you'll have a place to sleep, you'll have a shower.'"

"They were just so wonderful and so sweet," she said. "All of my emotions and all my anxiety -- I just lost it there."

My opinion is that when you're visiting a foreign country, you must make sure you are aware of most, if not all the possible dangers. Prepare yourself (mentally and financially) for this possibility.

The fact that Hezbollah operates within this country alone makes the situation unpredictable. Always expect the worst case scenario. If the sun did not rise once 10 years ago, there's a possiblity it might not rise tomorrow, even though it has been rising for the past 10 years without a hitch. Basically if the region was unstable once before (especially relatively recently), if the region is still home to a terrorist group, the chances of unrest are pretty good. It's like living next to a Volcano. It can errupt tomorrow, or errupt 1000 years from now. One thing you can count on is that you can't really predict it, and that it will happen. When it does, take responsibility for the fact that you chose to live under/visit a Volcano. Maybe a horrible analogy, but it illustrates my point somehow.
This is why I sometimes find it difficult to pitty people who live in regions prone to yearly Tornadoes, Hurricanes, or flood zones. Every single year you've got the same areas being destroyed by high winds, or flooded, yet people continue to build there!

Always try to be as self-reliant as possible. You're doing a disservice to yourself by counting on someone else (including the Government, no matter how much you pay in taxes a year) to save you. You might pay $50,000 for a car to take you across the country, but despite the money you just paid, you know there's that risk that it might break down in the middle of nowhere. It is a harsh reality, but I think we all should be aware of the fact that crap happens, and that help doesn't always come through when you need it most. This is why being self-reliant can save you. Know what you're getting yourself into. Bring that spare tire, the emergency sattelite phone,...and extra cash for repairs.

When I first heard that they would charge for evacuation (though now I hear it is voluntary, and even if you choose to pay, you can pay it at a conveniant time to you), I admitt, I was a little outraged. Then I started thinking about it. The Government is paying for so many programs already, maybe the budget simply couldn't handle financing the full fee of a Cruise Ship fare for 25,000 U.S. evacuees in such a short amount of time. Asking for $150 and financing the rest of that fee themselves isn't such a bad deal. Now to even waive that fee completely for those who choose not to pay,...well,.... that's pretty good! I read that American citizens can even bring someone close to them with them. I hope I didn't mis-read that.

We give priority to U.S. citizens but will consider departure assistance to Legal Permanent Residents accompanying a U.S. citizen immediate family member. One guardian may accompany an American citizen minor, even if that guardian is not an American," a statement said. The statement also said pets would not be evacuated.

MSNBC

So the lesson here is,.... Be responsible enough to realize the risks of the actions you are about to take. Don't count (though it is a nice thought) on having the luxury of someone else (including the Govnernment) to save you if something bad happens after you took the action. Be thankful you were fortunate enough to have someone come to your help, though it may be for a small fee. Not everyone is so lucky. Just my 'mean' opinion I guess.

Led by a French general, it is made up of 2,000 soldiers from China, France, Ghana, India, Ireland, Italy and Poland, but is largely powerless militarily. Its mandate, renewed every six months, next expires on July 31.

REPLY: Well, that tears it....... I guess they'll surrender.... AGAIN.

Cahrge tha mothers..... I just about jumped through the TV when I heard some of the evacuated people complain that we were "too slow", and that it's "too hot" and "too many flies" in Cyprus. I'd leave their sorry asses over there. Of course, the media (and
others) say "I hope the response is better than during katrina." What crap. It just shows how stupid many are that: A- they went there to begin with and B- they don't know crap about the Katrina efforts. LEAVE-THEM-THERE!!!

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Just my 'mean' opinion I guess.

Oh, you heartless, heartless ba****d!

Originally posted by zappafan1

Led by a French general, it is made up of 2,000 soldiers from China, France, Ghana, India, Ireland, Italy and Poland, but is largely powerless militarily. Its mandate, renewed every six months, next expires on July 31.

REPLY: Well, that tears it....... I guess they'll surrender.... AGAIN.

Cahrge tha mothers..... I just about jumped through the TV when I heard some of the evacuated people complain that we were "too slow", and that it's "too hot" and "too many flies" in Cyprus. I'd leave their sorry asses over there. Of course, the media (and
others) say "I hope the response is better than during katrina." What crap. It just shows how stupid many are that: A- they went there to begin with and B- they don't know crap about the Katrina efforts. LEAVE-THEM-THERE!!!

If the situation is bad enough to flee, I'm just glad to be alive. I love people who demand handouts. I once heard a woman, when confronted about neglecting her child say, "I don't get paid enough to take care of my kids."

Originally posted by hogtie

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Just my 'mean' opinion I guess.

Oh, you heartless, heartless ba****d!

God forbid we ask anyone to take personal responsibility for anything. What an outrage!

VISA....It's everywhere you want to flee!

Originally posted by YIAWETA
VISA....It's everywhere you want to flee!

As of today the US evacuated 8,000 people so far. And they started late. I believe we have evacuated the most now. Canada has 50,000 people to evacuate!?...America has 25,000. And there are still others evacuating such as France, Denmark, UK.

And on a side note, here is what one of our MPs is starting a debate over. Foreign nationals being evacuated before the Canadian tourists that are there. Apparently quite a large number of the Canadian evacuees are dual citizens that came over as refugees, returned to Lebanon when the going got better and now are trying to escape the violence again.

source

"We have made an incredibly generous offer to move out anyone with Canadian citizenship," he said. "There are 30,000 people waiting to be evacuated and I am sure there aren't that many tourists over there."

The Conservative MP said the entire evacuation is expected to cost half a billion dollars, and argues Canadians who have not recently lived in the country should be paying their own way home. He also said Canadian tourists should be ahead of foreign nationals in line for the rescue ships.