US government charges for evacuation

Originally posted by andy1033
man how rich is america and asking for people to pay to get of out a situation

America is not rich at all; in fact we are trillions of dollars in debt.

It is bad enough that my tax dollars are going to the scam of the Federal Reserve Bank to pay the interest on this debt. I really don't want any more of my tax dollars going to rescue people that made a conscious decision to go somewhere where they knew there was a risk.

We Americans need to realize that we must not rely on our government for anything. Do not put yourself into any situation you cannot survive on your own.

posted by hogtie:

Air France is charging $3,221 one way from DC to Beruit. I imagine it is more expensive to come the other way.

posted by stumason:

What a stupid and ignorant statement. It's not even worth responding too, to be honest, I just though I would highlight you pathetic accusations and ill thought out comments for everyone else to see.

REPLY: hogtie posts a fact, and a personal opinion which differs from yours and it's stupid/ignorant? Our diplomats over there make enough money to pay their own way. The others are there by their own free will, and know (or should) the volatility of the region. $150.00 is maybe 1/2% of what it costs to evacuate them. that IS a bargain.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by craig732:
America is not rich at all; in fact we are trillions of dollars in debt.

We Americans need to realize that we must not rely on our government for anything. Do not put yourself into any situation you cannot survive on your own.

REPLY: I agree with you on everything but the national debt. Currently it's only 2.3% of GDP.

Charging for the evac. is a matter of law, but it can be waived as they are doing. Those people knew that law before they left, and they decided to go anyway. Maybe they shouldn't call it a "charge".... it should be called a "moron tax", considering how dangerous it is and has been over there, and they went anyway.

Funny thing is that Nancy Pelosi is screaming about the fact we were going to charge them, and yet she voted for the law..... typical-left.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by xEphon
To say something as ignorant as, these people should know that the middle-east is a volatile area and therefore should be responsible for their own escape is as ignorant as saying that the people of New Orleans should pay for their own rebuilding because they live in a hurricane prone area or the people of California should be responsible for rebuilding whenever there is an earthquake.
[edit on 19-7-2006 by xEphon]

Why shouldn't these people be responsible for paying for their own rebuilding?

Many people lose their homes each year due to fire, flood, hurricanes, termites, etc. and if they do not have insurance they pay for it themselves.

Why do certain people get free rebuilding and others don't?

Originally posted by hogtie
Which part did you think was stupid?
The cost of airfare? Blame the airlines, not me.

That people choose to vacation/expatriate themselves to a country that has been unstable since the 80's? I didn't make them go. I didn't pay for them to go. I am not responsible for them.

That the US govt was doing something financially responsible? I knew it couldn't last. Makes too much sense.

That you shouldn't travel without the financial wherewithal to take care of yourself?
That's just common sense, unless you plan on thumbing your way across borders.

Its called self reliance. You can have independance, or you can have the govt as your nanny, but you can't have both.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by hogtie]

Hand you a spade and you just keep digging...Fair enough.

I see your ignoring the fact that Lebanon has been pretty damn stable for the best part of a decade and had a recovering and successful tourist industry, especially since the Syrian withdrawal.

I see your ignoring the fact that due to the historic troubles, Lebanese have links internationally and as a result there are alot of people there visiting family.

I see your ignoring the fact that Israel bombed the Airport and ALL major highways out of the country in the first days of attacks.

How the bloody hell do you expect these people, who up until last week were enjoying a relaxing holiday with family or friends, or maybe working there, to extract themselves?

Some people were students at the AMERICAN UNIVERSITY. After all, isn't the US a major backer of the Lebanese Government? It's not surprising there were many US and other Nationals in country.

Why the hell should the Governments NOT pay to get their citizens out? After all, the Government is for the people, right? Do we not pay taxes and allow them to buy all these fancy gadgets and killing machines they are so proud of? Well, maybe, just once in a while, they could use these assets to rescue their people from a volatile and dangerous position. Hardly too much to ask, really.

EDIT: To add, in response to people claiming that persons trapped there are morons, you seem to think everyone had access to Hezbollahs Evil Plans Folder, except Israel.

How the hell were they supposed to know that a war was going to break out? As I said, Lebanon was really quite nice a fortnight ago. Popular tourist trap, recovering economy. Rather like Croatia is now.

The people that went there 2 weeks ago, went to a different place that what is there now and that place has NO MEANS for a person to extracate themselves without some sort of help.

Also, to the person that seems to think Hogties moronic comments were fact, what I posted above is fact, all he posted was some stupid, ill thought out response to a situation that no one could have predicted.

It's funny how every other country in the world will happily extract it's people (Lebanon has a HUGE ex-pat community), except the US, which wanted to bill them for it first.... It's a joke...

[edit on 20/7/06 by stumason]

For goodness sake, these people are US citizens who have paid taxes up the ying yang which includes payment for the protection of the US armed forces in times of crisis. Thay have already paid many times over for protection and safe passage by their government which, by the way, is paying the bill for the incursions of Israel which are the cause and reason for their evacuation. And the US misleader GW Bush fails entirely to notice the irony of the sitauation!

Originally posted by stumason
Why the hell should the Governments NOT pay to get their citizens out? After all, the Government is for the people, right? Do we not pay taxes and allow them to buy all these fancy gadgets and killing machines they are so proud of? Well, maybe, just once in a while, they could use these assets to rescue their people from a volatile and dangerous position. Hardly too much to ask, really.

I agree... but then I also believe in We the People, not We the GoP

[edit on 20/7/2006 by wyldwylly]

by dubiousone:

For goodness sake, these people are US citizens who have paid taxes up the ying yang which includes payment for the protection of the US armed forces in times of crisis. And the US misleader GW Bush fails entirely to notice the irony of the sitauation!

REPLY: You should write the senators on both sides of the aisle who voted the payment law into effect. By the way, it was passed before Bush was in office.

No research, just off-the-cuff comments?

lol irregardless of whatever laws are on the books.... after all the executive branch comes close to stomping the snot out of our basic constitution everyday.

the fact that anyone can support asking people to pay up for a situation our own (highly despised by a majority) foreign policy caused is like an elected official kickin a taxpayer in the nuts and telling them medicare won't cover it.

It's a slap in the face... period end of story.

and I for one have not one whit of tolerance for the whiney dems that criticize after the fact.

The old saying fool me once shame on you... fool me twice shame on me comes to mind.

We watched katrina and the abysmal response, we said nothing. We watched the squanderring of more billions a day in iraq... we said nothing. We watch congress vote israel military aid and our state department fail to engage after OUR executive branch basically FORCES the elections that kicked off recent hostilities....

we've been fooled more than twice and we're all still talking... the poor schmucks that are stuck in a warzone aren't the real idiots WE ARE....

If a man is in starving yet he he is 100 miles from a jungle where there is plenty of food do you care for him. No you tell him to get off his lazy butt walk to the jungle if he has to and on his way he should start to think of how he is going to kill his food so he better grab a stick and on the way use his teeth if he has to to sharpen it.
Point trying to made is the simililarity in the starving man right by the jungle and the war torn refugee 100 miles from the border of another country that might not be at war yet.
If I were in lebanon this is what I would have done the moment the first missile was launched
1:start trying to find a way out of the country immediately not wait to see if Jesus was coming or there home?? state
2:thats it that is my only goal survival by any means possible
Unfortunately in reality its kill or be killed and if you happen to find yourself stuck in this kind of predicament you better start to think like a man who is fixing to die.
NOONE IS GOING TO SAVE YOU BUT YOURSELF
But as for the forum goes they were being charged 150 to get out of the country but that wasnt going to get them back to the states they still are going to have to pay for that.

Originally posted by stumason
I see your ignoring the fact that Lebanon has been pretty damn stable for the best part of a decade and had a recovering and successful tourist industry, especially since the Syrian withdrawal.

Oh yeah. Real stable. Since 1982, Lebanon has reclaimed its place as Monte Carlo of the Middle East. It is so stable, in fact, that the local govt cant fund its own military, but instead gets pushed around by Hezzbulah, who recieves aid from Iran and Syria (both proponents of peace, by the way). Oh, wait. Didn't Syria have a hand in asassinating former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, last October? I think they did. So, Syria withdraws its troops a few months ago, so now its a paradise? The Consular Information Sheet on Lebanon says different:
travel.state.gov...

It was dated Jan 20, 2006 and is still listed as current.

I see your ignoring the fact that due to the historic troubles, Lebanese have links internationally and as a result there are alot of people there visiting family.

And? If I visit family in another state and have a wreck, the govt doesn't pay to send me home.

I see your ignoring the fact that Israel bombed the Airport and ALL major highways out of the country in the first days of attacks.

Which has been a possibility since Hezzbullullabula became a force in the region. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

How the bloody hell do you expect these people, who up until last week were enjoying a relaxing holiday with family or friends, or maybe working there, to extract themselves?

However they can. The US govt is providing evacuation. Is that good enough for you? But its stupid for people to whine about the help that they get. Should the US have had an evac boat standing by? Hardly needed for your Mediterranian paradise is it?

Some people were students at the AMERICAN UNIVERSITY. After all, isn't the US a major backer of the Lebanese Government? It's not surprising there were many US and other Nationals in country.

Again, so what? Govt employes had to be there because of their jobs, and some were allowed to leave, and removed as a part of their job. Other than that, it doesn't matter if you are a tourist, student, or teacher. You are there because you choose to be, and nobody owes you anything.

Why the hell should the Governments NOT pay to get their citizens out? After all, the Government is for the people, right? Do we not pay taxes and allow them to buy all these fancy gadgets and killing machines they are so proud of? Well, maybe, just once in a while, they could use these assets to rescue their people from a volatile and dangerous position. Hardly too much to ask, really.

This is for ALL the people who have posted that their tax dollars have contributed to enable the US to defend these private citizens in Lebanon: you are right. Its time the US joins in the attacks on Hezbubbaloo, who put our citizens in danger by re-igniting conflict with Israel. Put our tax dollars to work!

EDIT: To add, in response to people claiming that persons trapped there are morons, you seem to think everyone had access to Hezbollahs Evil Plans Folder, except Israel.

Everyone has access to the state departments travel advisories.

How the hell were they supposed to know that a war was going to break out? As I said, Lebanon was really quite nice a fortnight ago. Popular tourist trap, recovering economy. Rather like Croatia is now.

It is? Croatia? Oh my god! Let me pack my bags! What I need is a vacation to a part of the world where war trials for genocide are still going on. Oh, thank you, thank you. I can make plans for the summer now! Maybe I can slip into Bosnia and Serbia for some knick-knacks if the UN peacekeepers will let me. Oh, that oh-so-effective UN. Hey, weren't they supposed to be monitoring the peace on the Lebanese/Israeli border?

Also, to the person that seems to think Hogties moronic comments were fact, what I posted above is fact, all he posted was some stupid, ill thought out response to a situation that no one could have predicted.

No one but the..... Hezmbubblemebah? That are based in Lebanon? Oh yeah, and hundreds of dead US citizens killed before 9/11 by Hzmubleybum.

It's funny how every other country in the world will happily extract it's people (Lebanon has a HUGE ex-pat community), except the US, which wanted to bill them for it first.... It's a joke...

Yeah, they are all getting to travel along roads hit by artillery and used by Hzmblebah to traffic arms, just to find safety in Syria. At least that's what a lot of visitors from the Netherlands are having to do. Its a shame that the US couldn't match those stalward efforts. Shame on you United States of America. Shame on you...


Here's your shovel back.


[edit on 20-7-2006 by hogtie]

[edit on 20-7-2006 by hogtie]

From my understanding the law does seem to say the gov't has to charge people the "commercial" rate for evacuations from war zones, and at first the executive said that was inflexible. Perhaps their lawyers found a loophole in the law or are just ignoring it, since now no fee will be charged.

edit:

I'd just like to add that if they were still charging, you didn't have to have the cash on you, you just had sign a promisary note that you'd pay sometime in the future.

[edit on 7/20/2006 by djohnsto77]

Oh yeah. Real stable. Since 1982, Lebanon has reclaimed its place as Monte Carlo of the Middle East. It is so stable, in fact, that the local govt cant fund its own military, but instead gets pushed around by Hezzbulah, who recieves aid from Iran and Syria (both proponents of peace, by the way). Oh, wait. Didn't Syria have a hand in asassinating former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, last October? I think they did. So, Syria withdraws its troops a few months ago, so now its a paradise? The Consular Information Sheet on Lebanon says different:

So thats why there are tens of thousands of foriegn nationals there? They were all on holiday. Up last week, Lebanon was reclaiming it's place as the "Paris of the Meditteranean". But, as you quite obviously a cloistered Yank with a myopic view of the world, you seem to think it is unsafe. Quite the contrary. There were no travel warnings existing for Lebanon from our own Government prior to last weeks flare up.

It may have been unsafe for Americans, however, but thats understandable, ...

And? If I visit family in another state and have a wreck, the govt doesn't pay to send me home.

If by a "wreck", you mean a car accident, then no, but your anlogy is incorrect and no where near the point, so it's not worth debating. Try again. Big differenc ebetween having an accident and being cuaght up in an unexpected war.

Which has been a possibility since Hezzbullullabula became a force in the region. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

What do you mean "since"? You do know your history, I take it? Hez have been around for quite some time, at least 20 years. The tourist industry has been recovering quite well in Lebanon for several years now.

However they can. The US govt is providing evacuation. Is that good enough for you? But its stupid for people to whine about the help that they get. Should the US have had an evac boat standing by? Hardly needed for your Mediterranian paradise is it?

What the hell are you gibbering about here? I am not complaining about the evac and I am not saying they should have a boat on standby either. The complaint is charging for it!

How the hell else can the people get out when the bloody Israelis are bombing every road, bridge and runway within 100 miles? Not to include most traffic that attempts to use said roads.

If the Israelis hadn't bombed the ONLY Airport to smithereeens, this would be a non-issue and the people could extract themselves, rather than requiring their Governemnts negotiate with Israel to allow them to be extracted. Is that too much to ask?

Jesus H Christ on a crutch, it's not rocket science mate and I bet my bottom dollar had you been trapped over there you would be singing a different tune......

In fact, why don't you go there. Go to Beirut now and then try and get back out again, on your own. Go on. If it's so damn easy, then go show them. Show us all wrong and how right you are.

Oh...I forgot.... You can't even get into the country now, can you.... Kinda proves my point really, doesn't it?

Again, so what? Govt employes had to be there because of their jobs, and some were allowed to leave, and removed as a part of their job. Other than that, it doesn't matter if you are a tourist, student, or teacher. You are there because you choose to be, and nobody owes you anything.

They went there for a holiday and certainly didn't expect a war. Again, how are they supposed to get out? And what do YOU think you pay your taxes for, if not for your Government to provide certain things for you? It's not so rich men can play with big bombs, the point of taxation is to enable the Government to provide for the people, after all, isn't that what it's there for?

I don't know much about the buggered up state of affairs in your country, but we expect our Governments to take care of us in a time of need here. They are, after all, OUR servants and exist for one purpose, to SERVE us, not the other way around.

It is? Croatia? Oh my god! Let me pack my bags! What I need is a vacation to a part of the world where war trials for genocide are still going on. Oh, thank you, thank you. I can make plans for the summer now! Maybe I can slip into Bosnia and Serbia for some knick-knacks if the UN peacekeepers will let me. Oh, that oh-so-effective UN. Hey, weren't they supposed to be monitoring the peace on the Lebanese/Israeli border?

Jesus. You really are extremely ignorant, aren't you? Croatia is borderline EU and is a favourite holiday destination for alot of Europeans. Many buy property there and retire.

May I suggest, before spouting off rubbish about other countries, you update your world view from version 1992 to 2006. You have some catching up to do.

And as to your "Hey, weren't they supposed to be monitoring the peace on the Lebanese/Israeli border?".

No, actually.

They are monitoring the ceasefire between Israel and Syria.

No one but the..... Hezmbubblemebah? That are based in Lebanon? Oh yeah, and hundreds of dead US citizens killed before 9/11 by Hzmubleybum.

Try to trivialise it all you like by using silly names, you only make yourself appear even more ignorant than you already are. It's not hard to spell...

If your referring to the "hundreds of US citizens killed by Hezbollah", they were marines sent to "stabalise" Lebanon after the another Israeli invasion. And, it isn't even proved they were involved, merely speculated that they were.

Yeah, they are all getting to travel along roads hit by artillery and used by Hzmblebah to traffic arms, just to find safety in Syria. At least that's what a lot of visitors from the Netherlands are having to do. Its a shame that the US couldn't match those stalward efforts. Shame on you United States of America. Shame on you...

I think you'll find your facts are skewed, but not suprisingly. At the beggining, before anyone could get ships in, anyone that could safely get to Syria, was advised to do so. Anyone that couldn't, was advised to stay put. Now there is a huge fleet of ships extracting the ex-pats from Lebanon.

Don't forget, we get US news over here too and I see what you guys are being sppon fed about this whole thing, so it's hardly surprising some of you have the opinions you do. Compared to a proper News channel, ones like FOX and CNN I wouldn't even class it as Childrens shows.

One Headline I saw on FOX last night was hilarious "Battleground In the Holy ground" with a cheesey, movie trailer voice, followed by dramatic music.

After that, very little content was offered up for the actual report, just alot of nice shots of explosions and the word terrorist every time an arab showed his face.....

Here's your shovel back.

It's ok, you keep it.

Somehow I suspect that if we were discussing the evacuation of US civilians from Israel, and not Lebanon, a lot of people's positions on this issue would be different.

That's not happening, because the reality is that depite Israel's claims, the danger faced by American civilians in Israel simply doesn't compare to that faced by Americans in Lebanon.

We watched katrina and the abysmal response, we said nothing.

REPLY: True.... the response of the local officials there was terrible; they didn't even use their own evac plans. The response time in New Orleans was three days, which is what the law states, unless called in earlier by the state governor.... which was not done.

OUR executive branch basically FORCES the elections that kicked off recent hostilities....

REPLY: Hezbolah started this, not the Jordanian government, who represent the people who rather liked the elections.

REPLY: Hezbolah started this, not the Jordanian government, who represent the people who rather liked the elections.

Jordanians? Crikey, everyone is involved now

I am sure you meant the Lebanese.....

As of last night, America evacuated 1,500 people, Canada evacuated 261 people, France 800, and Denmark 4,100. And today they [Americans] are expecting to get 3,000 people out. So they are getting them out pretty quickly despite starting late. The charging was ridiculous especially when other countries were not charging to evacuate their citizens.

i think its a disgrace to fine people for evacuation. its the same as a superhero asking for money after he saves your life. what a cheap as* idea.

Originally posted by worksoftplayhard
i think its a disgrace to fine people for evacuation. its the same as a superhero asking for money after he saves your life. what a cheap as* idea.

REPLY: It's not a "fine".... haven't you read anything? Anyone moving to a foreign country is made aware of and agrees to the law allowing the charge to them if they require evac.

Yes what many here do not understand, is that it was in fact a law passed in Congress, so it was "the law". I believe it was passed in 2003, if anyone else has any information..