Should Gays be allowed to marry?

Lupe_101, I find you to much pro-gay marriage.

I think that you have to do your coming out. When it's done, ask his hand to QO.

NC & me will be your witness !

Lupes point. Lupe represents the part of the population that readily adapts their opinion to the model promoted by media. The basis for his argument is valid, despite perhaps his inability to articulate it. What Lupe is trying to say is that judgement based upon the religious model is an outdated concept, considering the many other allowances made to incorporate societal evolution by the various Church organizations eg. 1994 the Pope announcing that Evolution was part of Gods plan, the United Church allowing homosexual ministers, etc.
Lupe is merely pointing out the fact that, as much as people can use the religious model as reasoning behind their opinions, and appear to be in the majority, a different set of principles altogether are applied to determining the reality of legal change and societal morphism. To sum up, the institute of marriage, as defined by Lupe, has moved outside of the realm of religion to embrace a current culture that, by constitutional obligation, has to meet the needs of many beliefs, thereby redefining what many consider traditional elements. Lupe's opinion is a reflection of his belief in personal freedom. A belief for which he should be applauded.

I do NOT applause any perversion ! But we are living in a so-called free society, so, Lupe, like anybody else HAVE the right to tell his opinion. Unless he don't try to oblige us to have his own opinion and respect the fact that many of us are still against these gay marriages !

applaude the perverse? No, U-P. I merely suggested that you should applaude Lupes belief in freedom. I apologize for trying to be reasonable, and understanding what Lupe's trying to say. It doesn't mean I agree with him.

As much as I hate to admit it, I actually agree with Lupe on this one.
U.P., you most of all should understand that perversion IS in the eye of the beholder (take the recent goings on in Nigeria).
We "Westerners" don't see any problem with the miss world pagaent (sp?) yet to a devout muslim, women in skimpy dress are an affront to thier beliefs. See where I'm going with this?

So, just because it may be against christian doctorine, it does not make it WRONG overall.
That said I will admit that when I was younger I had a very narrow mind concerning homosexuality but I made it a point to learn about it before passing judgement on anyone. What I have found in my adult years suprised me.
I think that out of all the people I know the "gays" are probably the closest you will ever find to a "true christian" besides the sexual orientation. Not to mention that they would put hetero's to shame with thier devotion to one another.

The biggest question is....Is it a marriage without religion?

UP, you said the no man lay with a man like he does with a women. That from bible, humans, not ten commandments, god. Humans writting a book should have as much power as it does today, none. The ten commandments were written by god, and they have power. Acoording to the bible one can't even go to the bathroom without sinning.

Also, to marry someone didn't and still doesn't require the church. And handfastining(Witch/Druid wedding) is where you get tie the knot.

Anyways, just because the church stole weddings from the witches and druids before they killed them doesn't mean they own them. Hell, they stole Yule(Christmas) Sowhien(Halloween) and Ostara(Easter) from the witches and druids, doesn't mean the days those are celebrated belong to the church and can't be used by anyone else. There would be a few billion people missing three days a year.

Yes, the church controls many marriges in England, United States, and other countries where before people voiced their opinion and fought for their rights they had to follow the church or were burnt at the stake. But people decided not to be the sheep the bible orders you to be and thought for themselves. And guess what? You say lupe fights for gay marriges to much and imply he is gay, well then. You fight against it so much, why not start a mob and burn a few houses of known gays then shoot anyone who flees from the fire? I know extreme version of what you did, but the same thing in the end. Maybe people like lupe believe that a person is an individual who has the right to do what they want and shouldn't be controlled by creations of certain men. The church/whatever other religons have, like the bible/Koran/Tora/whatever, was made by man. And nowadays some decide that they want to be free and think and do what they want. As long as no one else is hurt.

And to the subject, why not? Go to a court house/Las Vegas, pay a few bucks, get married. Of course, if it a open marrige(aka more then family knows that two gays/lesbians are getting married), you'd get people like NC there trying to burn the court house down saying the people are abominations. Nothing is an abomination, for god loves all, and wouldn't let it happen if it was so bad, now would she?(Or he, or nothing, whatever) But to the church, it's are version right, you wrong, die. Why? They weren't the first, they weren't the last, why they right? Because more people believe it? Because going right by # of followers, whatever China follows has most followers, not the church. Heck, you christians can't even agree with yourselves. As Lincoln once said, "A house divided can't stand", something close to that. In this case, a church. Heck, already have people leaving you, so why would what the church says control what the government does? They are suppose to be different, and the right to marry is a legal concern, not religous.

Bah, anyway, I don't care. If you like peoples who take it in their ass, it's not my problem.

Me, I don't like them. It's your right to like them, unlike it's mine to don't like them.

I'm just worry when they want to have childs.Worry for the kids of course.

Otherwise, I don't mind if they want to marry.

If I have to respect your pro-gay marriage choice ? May be. But then, you have also to respect those who don't share your point of view. And it's not the case, you don't respect them.So, I don't see why peoples who don't have your point of view would have to respect your. See what I mean ?

*Why do I even bother?* James, the 10 commandments are in the Bible - that's where you can find them if you want to read them. God's stance on homosexuality is found throughout the Bible, not just one place by one writer.

As far as the church stealing marriage, that's pure hogwash. You are correct in that Christmas and Easter are not part of Christianity. The church (the forerunner to Catholicism) would bring pagan groups into itself, allowing them to hold on to some of their old rituals. As you would see if you read the Bible, Christmas and Easter are not mentioned in the Bible. As a matter of fact, God does say not to throw any feasts that He didn't specifically tell us to throw.
Halloween, by the way, Isn't a Christian recognized day. Just because it happens in America doesn't mean its a Christian event.

"If I have to respect your pro-gay marriage choice ? May be. But then, you have also to respect those who don't share your point of view. And it's not the case, you don't respect them.So, I don't see why peoples who don't have your point of view would have to respect your. See what I mean ? "

no.
your entire paraghraph makes no sense.

Originally posted by Lupe_101
no.
your entire paraghraph makes no sense.

What do you mean ? You don't understand it, or you don't agree with it ?

If I don't understand it how could I agree or disagree with it?

Originally posted by Lupe_101
If I don't understand it how could I agree or disagree with it?

Ok, understood.

My meaning was : If I have to respect your point of view ( you are pro-gay mariage ), you have to respect my point of view ( I'm not pro-gay mariage ).

How could I respect your if you don't respect mine, and vice versa. Is it more clear now ?

ah I see.
its easy UP.

I don't have to respect your opinion. I can just say its wrong and be quite happy with that contention regardless of any form of mutual respect.

Its called "believing in what you are saying"

Originally posted by Lupe_101
ah I see.
its easy UP.

I don't have to respect your opinion. I can just say its wrong and be quite happy with that contention regardless of any form of mutual respect.

Its called "believing in what you are saying"

Ok Lupe. But until you don't respect others beliefs, don't be surprised if the others peoples don't respect yours.

If I understand you, YOU have right, and I have wrong. Sorry for you, but I think that I have right, and YOU have wrong.

now your getting it.

we can have different opinions but we don't have to respect each others or accept them, its the role of somone who has a belief to challenge those who disagree, the whole "lets all agree to disagree" thing is bollox.

Lupe, I'm Belgian, and in Belgium, we are doing always compromises. Like this, everybody is half-happy and half-unhappy.

Your point of view is not so good. I wonder what will happened if nobody can convince anybody.

Mad man, keep your fonts down.

If you don't like what you see get the $^^* out and don't read this post again.
But no you coming back and you need to bitch about it.

Hey don't bash Lupe, if it wasn't for his logical opposite standpoint this thread would have died ages ago.

As its is it has provided interest and responses from many people, he's like a nail that isn't embedded far enough in the wood and everyone who comes past tries to whack down with the hammer.

At least he can create a logical argument unlike James the lesser who matches his nick in all respects with much inaccurate drivel..

Look at all the exercise he's created

i just thought it would be interesting to bring up the case about a lesbian couple who adopted a child
they raised the child well and then one of the couple died
the court decided to take the child away because it wouldn't be brought up in a good environment
we still descriminate against gays
u don't see the court taking away a child from a mother just because her husband died?

Personally i dont care what the ass pirates do or recieve from others as long as they are not repressed beyond their fundamental freedoms.