Hezbollah UAV Severely Damages Israeli Warship

Originally posted by PARADISEVIEW

Originally posted by ArMaP
According to Ynetnews, the ship was hit on landing pad.

May you post the link please?

Sorry, I forgot it.

Here it is: Inquiry: Navy was unaware of missile threat

you are free not to sign the petition .
jst remember that there are lebanese and israeli innocents....
and if you say that israel is only destroying bridges and infrastrusture , you are wrong , just see the link given in this thread about the 20 people killed while escaping in a bus (7 among them are children)
the innocent lebanese killed in this israeli invasion is more than 100 (i can't tell you the exact number since while i'm writing this reply i heard 5 missiles falling somwhere ... and of course innocent people are killed)

Originally posted by American Madman
I notice your only point against me is the creation of israel, BUT they are their now right or wrong and aren't leaving. Arabs live in israel how many jews get to live in any arab country.

I know this is going off-topic again, but if you make a search you can see for yourself.

Recently, when a fake information was spreaded about Iran forcing colour codes in clothes for people of other religions, one of the people who said that it was only disinformation was a Jewish member of the Iranian parliament.


PS: To the mods, sorry for the off-topic, but I could not resist a chance to deny ignorance.

Originally posted by subz
Sorry but why would this be a repeat of the USS Liberty false flag operation when we have a clear cut statement of responsibility from Hezbollah over the attack? Sheik Hassan Nasrallah actually announced the attack in a virtually real-time manner.

Im no Israeli fan but I'll pretty much bet the ranch on it having nothing to do with Israeli false flag attacks.

One of the theories speculated that attack and complete destruction of USS Liberty (with no witneses) was planed and agreed between president Johnson and Israel. The plan was to blame it on Egipt so the US could join the Six Days War by attacking Egipt.

What is interesting in attack on Israel gunboat, is all that heavy Bush, Blair and media fingerpointing on Syria and Iran. You want an excuse for attack. Well here you have it.
It's a tipical problem-reaction-solution situation. And people demand action. Something must be done. We have to be enraged or scared just a little bit more to aprove this destruction of "Axis of Evil".

To add.
I think that this attack on Israel warship is not enough. I have a serious concerne that two British warships which are moving toward Lebanon coast will come under fire by some sort of "Iran operated and manned" missile and this incident will be used for some sort of military and economical action against Iran and Syria.

[edit on 16-7-2006 by yanchek]

Originally posted by American Madman

The Israelis are not targeting civilians. They are targeting infrastructure, they are targeting terrorists. Terrorists don't report their dead as terrorists they report them as civilians.

It is Hez. which is and has been launching random rocket attacks into cities with no target other then terror.

It's funny you should say those things..

Lets talk about the Geneva Conventions shall we? Targetting civilian infrastructure is NOT allowed unless it can be proved to be a military necessity. I do not see how oblitorating Lebanon "back 20 years", to quote Israeli officials, is military necessity.

Also, you say Hezbollahs aim is to create terror in the Israeli populace. Funnily enough, that is Israel's stated aim for targetting Lebanese civilian targets as aposed to Hezbollah targets.

They have stated that they want the Lebanese people to understand the price, so that they might exert pressure on Hezbollah.

Who is creating terror again?

And as for the usual Israeli-can't-do-any-harm types asking why Lebanon hadn't disarmed Hezbollah. You do know that they were actually undergoing talks with them when this whole thing happened.

I believe they called it the National Conference or something and were discussing intergrating the militia into the army.

A forceful disarmament is just not possible as the Lebanese army is so weak.

The US was backing them up with aid and what not, but it takes time to rebuild one's country after 20 years of civil war, how about cutting the Lebanese some slack?

[edit on 16/7/06 by stumason]

Iranian manufactured Raad 1 missiles launched at Haifa

The rocket attack on the northern Israeli city of Haifa has raised the stakes in the very hot war between Israel and Hezbollah, and increases the possibility of widening the conflict with Syria and Iran. Haifa, the country's third largest city, is home to over 250,000 Israelis, and Hezbollah has proven it can now strike the city with its rockets. Israel can no longer countenance Hezbollah's presence on its border.

it seems that the Nassrallah's surprises are showing up

counterterrorismblog.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Faux news reported last night that 25,000 Americans are in Beirut. 25,000! wow, that's a lot, but seems most are Lebonese-Americans with summer homes there. Much like the NYers in Tel Aviv and Haifa?

No mention of the 6th Fleet though. I'm sure they're there, Haifa's a favorite liberty port there too.

Originally posted by PARADISEVIEW
"Killing innocent civilians is NOT an act of self-defense.

Hezbollah has been allowed to run amuk in Lebanon and the
civilians have not stopped them. Hezbollah then hides
behind those civilians. That is why there are civilian casualties.

If the civilians don't want to be injured or killed they should get
Hezbollah out of their country. By enabling Hezbollah they have
made themselves cannon fodder. I don't like it, but that's the
way it is.

Destroying a sovereign nation is NOT a measured response."

Lebanon isn't destroyed (yet). Perhaps when the people of Lebanon look
around and see what coddling Hezbollah has brought them they will have
the common sense to get rid of Hezbollah just like they recently ditched
Syria. Some talking heads say they will hate Israel and blame them for
everything. Others say that they will finally get rid of Hezbollah for bringing
them down like this.

And as far as 'measured response' goes ... that's just bad war
tactics. If someone hits you, then you hit back twice as hard. If you
just hit back slap for slap then the terrorist enemy becomes emboldened.
If you flatten the hell out of him ... he won't get back up and hit.
It's just that simple. When a bully strikes you must use overwhelming
force or else that bully will be back for more.

A 'measured response' war would go on forever.

Originally posted by stumason
Who is creating terror again?

Hezbollah. They attacked the Israeli post and kidnapped Israelies.
They started this whole mess. They could have ended it by giving back
the kidnapped soldiers. They could have ended it by leaving Israel in
peace. Instead .. they hit the bee's nest with a stick.

Israel has hit the Hezbollah TV network as well as the electrical and fuel
areas that Hezbollah use. They are also used by the civilians but they are
legitimate targets because of the Hezbollah use. Taking out the airport
runway was a good strategic war move.

Hezbollah has rocketed Israeli towns with Syrian rockets filled with ball bearings.
They can't be aimed so they just toss 'em into the city. Today they landed in a
train station killing civilians with thousands of these ball bearings flying through
the explosion. (TV News info).

they were actually undergoing talks with them when this whole thing happened.

Talks? Appeasement talks with terrorists who are backed by Syria and Iran.
Talks to allow them to infiltrate their army.

While I greatly admire the people of Lebanon for recently throwing off Syria
and I support their desire for freedom, coddling Hezbollah won't do it. The
government in Lebanon only has to ask the USA for help and we'd be there
instantly. Just about any Western country would help them be rid of Hezbollah.
Saying the army is too weak to get rid of Hezbollah doesn't make it.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by stumason
Who is creating terror again?

Hezbollah. They attacked the Israeli post and kidnapped Israelies.
They started this whole mess. They could have ended it by giving back
the kidnapped soldiers.

Untrue. The capturing of the Israeli soldiers and the attack on the post was a legitimate Military action in accordance with international law. The Rocket attacks on Israeli towns and cities, obviously, were not, and can be classed as Terrorism. Israel has committed many acts of Terrorism over the past 5 days, also, which have resulted in the destruction of a great deal of Civilian Infrastructure, and the murder of over 100 Lebanese Civilians. Some may say Israel could have avoided this by agreeing to free some of the Palestinian and Lebanese Prisoners, some of which are Women and Children, as I understand it.

israel just totally destroyed a 12 floors building in Tyre (south of lebanon).
It was a civilian building including a fire departement.
all the building crashed down. We are talking about many many civilians dead and many civilians blocked in this building.(including some US citizens families)



this is a genocide.

note : for those who will reply by saying that hezbollah's members where hidden in that building , just don't do it . because i know you are right and that you know where every single member of hezbollah is.

Originally posted by Communication_Burger
The capturing of the Israeli soldiers and the attack on the post was a legitimate Military action in accordance with international law.

- Provide a link to that 'international law' please.
- Show how attacking the military of a soverign nation and kidnapping their
soldiers during a non-aggressive situation is legitimate.
- Show how holding them for ransom is legitimate.
- Show how doing this to free criminals is legitimate.

Israel has committed many acts of Terrorism over the past 5 days,

Israel defending itself from terrorists is 'terrorism'; but the across-the border
kidnapping and ransom of Israeli soldiers is legitimate eh???

Israel could have avoided this by agreeing to free some of the Palestinian and Lebanese Prisoners,

If people are stupid enough to go into Israel and break it's laws then they are
criminals. They should be in jail. Having other criminals cross international
borders to kidnap and hold people for ransom (demands for freedom for the criminals) is another criminal offense.

some of which are Women and Children, as I understand it.

That's just rumor. You'll have to provide a credible criminal list.
BTW - Women are capable of being criminals and so are children. Their age
and sex don't change that fact or the fact that they should go to jail (or Juvie
Hall here in the USA).

According to your thoughts here - If I don't like that Canada has arrested
certain people who have broken their laws I should be able to arm myself and
my friends; cross the border; take hostages; come back over the border;
and demand the freedom of those prisoners in return for the kidnapped
Canadians ... and all this should be legitimate, right??

Originally posted by PARADISEVIEW
you know where every single member of hezbollah is.

Israeli intelligence knows better than you do where they are. Lebanon
is in this state because of Hezbollah. It is their fault. To blame Israel for the
situation is just blaming the victim. The people of Lebanon should be pointing
their collective fingers at Hezbollah. Hezbollah actions brought this down.

most of the lebanese in the israeli jails were taken by the IDF from the Lebanese ground they were not in israel.

most of them were held there without any judgement since many many years
(samir el kentar is the first lebanese to be in the israeli prisons and he is still there from 28 years now without any judgement....)

all 11 members of the family Akhras just were killed in Aitaroun (south lebanon)



Stop the genocide

israel launched 2 missiles , people didn't heard the sound of it falling. does these kind of no sound missiles exist?? and what are they called??

Originally posted by FlyersFan
- Provide a link to that 'international law' please.
- Show how attacking the military of a soverign nation and kidnapping their
soldiers during a non-aggressive situation is legitimate.
- Show how holding them for ransom is legitimate.
- Show how doing this to free criminals is legitimate.

Calm down, you are not the United states ambassador to the UN, so don't act like you are, and stop being so demanding. You want those links, look them up yourself, they are all out there. You may also wish to look into the time when Hezbollah last captured some Israeli military personnel for bargaining the release of imprisoned Palestinians and Lebanese, and Israel complied, releasing hundreds of unjustified detainees. It wasn't that long ago. What has changed now?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Israel has committed many acts of Terrorism over the past 5 days,

Israel defending itself from terrorists is 'terrorism'; but the across-the border
kidnapping and ransom of Israeli soldiers is legitimate eh???

I may not agree with them initiating this particular attack on the Israeli Military, but it is a legitimate act in accordance to international rules of law, yes. They didn't capture, or should I say kidnap, Civilians, did they? They may have initiated War with those acts, but those acts in particular are not acts of Terrorism.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Israel could have avoided this by agreeing to free some of the Palestinian and Lebanese Prisoners,

If people are stupid enough to go into Israel and break it's laws then they are
criminals. They should be in jail. Having other criminals cross international
borders to kidnap and hold people for ransom (demands for freedom for the criminals) is another criminal offense.

So that makes it alright to go into Lebanon and murder over 100 Civilians in 5 days? If they should be in Jail, why has Israel not sent in Troops to capture those responsible and detain them? Why have the reduced the whole of Lebanon to a disaster zone? Why have they destroyed Civilian infrastructure and murdered Civilians? If Hezbollah militants should be jailed for anything, it should be the missile attacks on Israeli Cities, not their attacks on Israeli Military targets. The fact you keep demanding links on international rules of War is obviously an indication that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, in my opinion.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
According to your thoughts here - If I don't like that Canada has arrested
certain people who have broken their laws I should be able to arm myself and
my friends; cross the border; take hostages; come back over the border;
and demand the freedom of those prisoners in return for the kidnapped
Canadians ... and all this should be legitimate, right??

That is a ridiculous and completely innacurate analogy. Hezbollah are bargaining for the release of detainees imprisoned during Israel's occupation of their Country, as well as Palestine. Have Canada occupied America and detained thousands of its Citizens and then refused to return them after the occupation is over?

NO.

Originally posted by American Madman
Damn this thread. I keep replying to it and then realize wrong thread to debate politics...

Roll up, roll up!

Hear ye, hear ye!

Want to discuss this topic with as much political rhetoric and implication as your fingers can muster? Then start a thread over at PTS. I hear the Other Global Politics FSME loves topics like these

Originally posted by subz
Other Global Politics FSME loves topics like these

FSME??? huh?

Originally posted by Communication_Burger
You may also wish to look into the time when Hezbollah last captured some Israeli military personnel for bargaining the release of imprisoned Palestinians and Lebanese, and Israel complied, releasing hundreds of unjustified detainees. It wasn't that long ago. What has changed now?

Nicely said.

This is exactly the Hezbullah mindset. Ever since Israel withdrew from Lebanon Hezbullah has attacked Israel even though their raison d'etre has been taken from them (Fighting the occupying force). Ironically the only occupying force was actually Syria and Hezbullah faught with them and for them. Anyhow, Hezbullah attacked Israel and Israel responded with restraint, so Hezbullah seeing that they can get away with more attacked some more. They had infiltrations into Israels north and shot up civilians on Israeli roads, they kidapped soldiers, they kidnapped civilians they bombed bases, town and villages and Israel responded relatively mildly. At some point the bully needs to be taken into an alleyway and beaten. That is what is happening now. Just because Israel until now did not respond as it should have does not mean that this time will be any different.
Get used to the new set of laws - Mess with us and die.

I may not agree with them initiating this particular attack on the Israeli Military, but it is a legitimate act in accordance to international rules of law, yes. They didn't capture, or should I say kidnap, Civilians, did they? They may have initiated War with those acts, but those acts in particular are not acts of Terrorism.

According to international law nations must stop its nationals from attacking other states. The basic fact that lebanon does not extend its army to guard its southern border from the illegal Hezbullah militia is a violation of international law.
And yes Civilains were captured in the past by Hezbullah (Elhanan Tennenbaum). In addition to the current abduction of the soldiers Hezbullah also bombed civilian villages along the border and injured civilians. So all and all we learn that Hezbullah has conducted in terrorist activities.

So that makes it alright to go into Lebanon and murder over 100 Civilians in 5 days? If they should be in Jail, why has Israel not sent in Troops to capture those responsible and detain them? Why have the reduced the whole of Lebanon to a disaster zone? Why have they destroyed Civilian infrastructure and murdered Civilians? If Hezbollah militants should be jailed for anything, it should be the missile attacks on Israeli Cities, not their attacks on Israeli Military targets. The fact you keep demanding links on international rules of War is obviously an indication that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, in my opinion.

It is not Israel who should capture and detain Hezbullah it is Lebanon's duty according to international law. The fact that Lebanon lets a militia exist in their territory that is subservient to Iran and Syria is Lebanon's problem. Israel is now forcing Lebanon to act against Hezbullah and is also punishing Hezbullah.
The infrastructure is being taken out to:
1- restrict movement of Hezbullah within the country.
2- Bombing the Shiite quarters in Beirut is actually the decimation of the Hezbullah stronghold and recall - Israel warned them first. Now israel is warning all civilians to leave south lebanon.

Hezbollah are bargaining for the release of detainees imprisoned during Israel's occupation of their Country, as well as Palestine. Have Canada occupied America and detained thousands of its Citizens and then refused to return them after the occupation is over?

NO.

Actually you are again inaccurate. Hezbullah wishes for the release of Samir Kuntar captured in Israel after he infiltrated Israel, killed a father, his 4 year old daughter and 2 policemen. Read up on this 'HERO'. Should he released???
In addition Hezbullah wants to release Palestinian detainees (terrorists) - As far as I recall Lebanese and Palestinians are different nations. The truth of it is that Hezbullah is just looking for a reason to attack Israel. Everything they say is just an excuse.