NWO Class of Musical Theory

Let me start this thread by saying, I hope my opinions do not insult the musical tastes of others as I understand musical preference is a purely personal thing.

Popular music is generally so bad these days it actually makes me want to cry.

Nobody seems to listen to any kind of music with depth in any popular setting, instead we have this awful techno and hardcore rubbish that makes my ears want to bleed. To me, music should be considered an artform, not the degrading popularity image contest it has become.

Nobody listens to genuine virtuoso instrumentalists anymore, this is very sad, electronic music has killed the industry, and I don't mean electric guitar and bass etc, but music that is made purely by computer.

There was a time when popular music was good, and good music was popular, and it was called Jazz, and before this, there was Orchestral Music.

Music should be an expression of artform to convey emotion as well as some real catchy grooves.

Instead of paying homage to true musical genius and virtuosity in people such as Wynton Marsalis, Bob Brookmeyer or composers like Chopin we have the worst (un)musical acts such as Britney Spears, Slayer and Slipknot and who knows what else being billed as "exciting and talented" when nothing could be further from the truth.

This is a conspiracy in itself, use televisual media to convey to people on a subconscious level what is cool, and people think they should enjoy it or else they don't fit in.

Creative, artistic music has been murdered. Popular music these days is a travesty, a massacreing of power chords and barely held together time signatures to form an ear shattering rot that is billed as experimental.

Heres an idea, why don't you experiment with playing in tune???!!!??

You don't actually need to know anything about the theory of music these days to be considered a professional musician.

Try asking Britney or 50cent what a Db min7 b9 chord is and they would look at you like you are talking a foreign language when this is what the entirity of the musical system is based on, HARMONY AND RHYTHM.

I'll admit that I'm biased, I have been studying music and practising my instruments since I was 7 years old, trying to master a Trombone is no easy task, it requires lots of dedication, and I'm not just blowing my own horn here (excuse the pun.)

I know this might sound bigoted, but I have been a qualified music teacher since I was 15, so I at least have some grasp over the said topic.

Now you may think that I'm some crotchety (another pun) old man harkening back to the good old days of when music was an artform, but I'm not, I'm only 21 and believe me when I tell you, being a Euphonium tooting, Bass Trumpet playing Pianist does not impress girls half as much as someong playing one riff continually whilst speaking (not singing) what could hardly be considered poetic rhyme over the top. In case you're wondering, I'm refferring to (c)rap here.

The people you do meet through the true proffesional music however, are generally very interesting, insightful and intelligent, highly unlike the American Idols and Jessican Simpsons that your children look up to as both musicians and role models to emulate.

I know this is a conspiracy site, so I'll get to my conspiracy and say that the destruction of intelligent music is probably designed not only to maximise corporate profits, but also because if people were interested in musical genius, and put them on a podium, these virtuoso players would probably have something to say about the state of our world and whats wrong with it, by putting them into the stagelight (another pun) people would not only listen to their music, but also listen to what they had to say, and think about it.

Lets not forget that thinking is dangerous, so instead they flood our senses with American Idol, MTV and various other propaganda that not only subtley influences the way you think but is designed to distract you from focusing on real issues and banding together to do something about it.

Its called Television Programming for a reason.

I'll conclude with some random information, its a proven fact that the human brain functions at a higher frequency and therefore retains information easier and processes thoughts more clearly when listening to various light classical music.

Your thoughts people?

Originally posted by DrBones666

Creative, artistic music has been murdered. Popular music these days is a travesty,

For the most part... Pop music always sucked. For every Sinatra, there were 5 Pat Boones.

Oh and Db min7 b9 on guitar


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But your right about the lack of music theory, the last guy I jammed with couldn't play a proper 12 bar blues, that's about as simple as you can get.

up untill the point where you mention slipknot and slayer i aggree with you whole heartedly popular music today sucks, its a talentless plastic waste land no arguemnets there

once you get past the singing and u can listen to each instrument individualy most bands like slipknot and slaying are actualy VERY telented at there given instrument

basicly what you are saying is that heavy music sucks....that maybe your opion but im going to attempt to show you that the people behind the instruments in these bands can infact be very talented ill attempt to show you this instrument by instrument (the instruments of your adverage heavy or alternative band)

Drums:
flo mounier of the band cryptopsy, an inhumanly fast drummer first trained in jazz drumming (theres abit of the end of a song at the begining before the solo)

pete sandoval of mobid angel here doing a drum check before a show(unfortunately only audio)

Guitar:

michael angelo batio probly the fastest guitar player out there was in a metalband called nitro in the late 80's early 90's and can play both left and right handed, and even 2 guitars at once as seenhere(sorry about the terrable quality video)

then theres yngwie melmsteenplaying part of beethovens 5th

Bass:

danny growl of dark elf playing a random solo for the cammera

while you may not like the sound of some of these you cant go past the fact they all have huge amounts of talent

thanks for reading my gramaticly lacking and poorly spelt babble

Originally posted by toeragpunk
michael angelo batio probly the fastest guitar player out there was in a metalband called nitro in the late 80's early 90's and can play both left and right handed, and even 2 guitars at once as seenhere(sorry about the terrable quality video)

Well I agreed with you till that part.

Have you heard that Nitro album??? Freight traaaaaaaaiiiiiin freight train running. He has the chops but no musical taste, pure masturbation. The same goes for the singer Jim Gillette (Mr Lita Ford) But don't tell him I said that. He started working out and now looks like one of the worlds strongest man contestants and could squish me like a grape.

A better example would be Alex Skolnick, formerly of Testament.

Pardon me, my peroxide roots are showing..

Joseph Campbell once state something to the effect that a cultures popular music, myth and storytelling was a good judge of it's character...

Not surprising that as we are involved in an "econominc crisis" and an ongoing state of war that our popular music would reflect a pointless and recreational drivel not dealing with very heavy issues.

This is not an attack on the muscial abilities of said performers, but rather a holistic look at what the "industry" has chosen to contribute to the mainstream (and wholly uneducated) teenage populace.

Drugs, rampant materialistim and petchulant whining and ill-concieved rants and ideologies plague our national airwaves at the moment. Is it planned? I think so...

The most popular driving force behind youth culture is music. Most teens relate to one another based on fashion choices and musical preferences - so if you have a bunch of "angst lite" trolling the airwaves - these teens get to go through their normal rebellious phase without really having a soundtrack to deeper truths, insight, or political reasoning.

It works out beautifully.

I mean, who's going to take someones political dissent seriously when it is so infused with pop culture references and lingo that no sense can be made out of it? Both the issue and the dissenter becomes a moot point.

Also - the majority of musci is geared towards a hedonistic, materialistic, "poor me" mentality - what better way to infuse these "values" within the enxt generations of worker/consumers?

The foundations are solid, the musical ability is there, but the combined whole sounds like a montage of nothing more than psychobabble and Freudian reinforcement.

Do I care? Not really. I went through this same thing in the late eighties, when the same trends wafted through the airwaves...I just think it's funny that this type of drivel always seems to counterbalance a Republican being in office.

Coincidence?

I agree with the original poster except when it comes to trashing progressive heavy metal - thrash, whatever you want to call it. Some incredible talent exists in that genre---You should listen to NIGHTWISH, classically trained opera singer with a metal band. It's sic dude! www.nightwish.com...
This singer has performed for Kings/Queens/ and royalty & numerous heads of State. www.tarjaturunen.com... SHE IS HOT!!!!!
Crap looks like the best band ever just broke up. If you never heard them it's too late. must mourn!!!

I think RAP - hip hop would have died years ago if it wasn't promoted as a black thing.
Remember the first rappers were the "callers" at square dances. White farmers.
Hey lets scream how whitey stole rock from the blackman when they stole rap from whitey.
Ah but that's trivial. I've been playing classical music for my son since he was born and he is considerably more intelligent than all other kid his age and or up to a year older.
Good stuff is out there. You just have to look really hard.
Try not to let the media dumb you down.

[edit on 13-7-2006 by BattleofBatoche]

I did start the thread by stating I didn't mean to insult anyones musical preferences, I didn't mean to knock heavy music, I don't mind some as long as it's done well.

I'm a Jazz afficianado/closet Metallica fan.

No doubt that there are bands out there that have butchered music and lack any originality. You do have "cookie cutter" artists trying to make a million bucks. I'd rather listen to nothing sometimes. But there are still good bands out there and some of them use electronic and computer generated music, as well as instruments. I listen to all types of music, Rap, rock, metal, country, whatever I feel like, and whatever I actually like.

Troy

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by toeragpunk
michael angelo batio probly the fastest guitar player out there was in a metalband called nitro in the late 80's early 90's and can play both left and right handed, and even 2 guitars at once as seenhere(sorry about the terrable quality video)

Well I agreed with you till that part.

Have you heard that Nitro album??? Freight traaaaaaaaiiiiiin freight train running.

He has the chops but no musical taste, pure masturbation. The same goes for the singer Jim Gillette (Mr Lita Ford) But don't tell him I said that. He started working out and now looks like one of the worlds strongest man contestants and could squish me like a grape.

A better example would be Alex Skolnick, formerly of Testament.

Pardon me, my peroxide roots are showing..

i never said nitro were good, just pointing out michael angelo's untamed speed

Originally posted by toeragpunk
up untill the point where you mention slipknot and slayer i aggree with you whole heartedly popular music today sucks, its a talentless plastic waste land no arguemnets there

slipknot and slayer do suck. at least in my opinion

but for drums, you missed way better targets.

Derek Roddy
Bobby Jarzombek

Guitar:

Michael Romeo
Dave Martone
Al DiMeola

in anycase, I do agree that there is a conspiracy. And its name is CLEARCHANNEL.
Payola trial 'caused the guy who coined the term 'rock and roll' to commit suicide, for tainting the new music. But big business soon saw that what the guy felt sorry for, could make a serious buck. And so here we are now. All the Bach's, Mozart's and Vivadli's of today are all poor and underground. It's a sad day for music, but a great day to sell your sould for fame.

Originally posted by DrBones666


Instead of paying homage to true musical genius and virtuosity in people such as Wynton Marsalis, Bob Brookmeyer or composers like Chopin we have the worst (un)musical acts such as Britney Spears, Slayer and Slipknot and who knows what else being billed as "exciting and talented" when nothing could be further from the truth.

This is a conspiracy in itself, use televisual media to convey to people on a subconscious level what is cool, and people think they should enjoy it or else they don't fit in.

Man, you sure hit the nail on the head with that post.

You have voted DrBones666 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I'm also a lover of classical, romantic, baroque, and jazz. As a kid and guitarist, I cut my teeth on the blues and rock n roll, but even popular rock music was different then than now. Ritchie Blackmore was classically trained, and his work with Deep Purple and Rainbow was as good as it gets. Jimmy Page was primarily a bluesman, and his work with the Yardbirds and Zeppelin attest to the musical genius that can be found in rock music, but is noticeably lacking in much of today's rock.

Also, I have to give thumbs up to Tony Iommi, a founder of Black Sabbath who's been the band's lead guitarist now for for almost 40 years. Tony, a left handed guitarist, lost the top digit of his right ring finger in an accident at work in the late '60's (ironically, it was his last day on the job, as he was leaving his position as a saw operator in order to play for Sabbath full time). He created a homemade prosthetic using a melted plastic bottle cap, and began tuning down in order to make the strings easier for him to fret. This necessity of tuning down has since become a staple of hard rock, with everyone trying to mimic the Sabbath sound, and even while missing the tip of one of his fingers, Tony remains untouchable in virtuoso rock.

[edit on 14-7-2006 by Masonic Light]

Thanks very much ML!

May I enquire as to whether you're still an axeman?

What you were saying about Tony Iommi I find quite interesting, losing a digit is one of my worst nightmares when it comes to music.

Have you heard of a Gypsy Guitarist by the name of Django Reinhardt? Truly amazing story.

Quoted from www.djangomontreal.com

"Here we should perhaps say something about the grave threat to Django’s career which happened in the year 1928. He had made an early and promising start, as we have seen, in the bals musette alongside such famous accordioniste as Guérino, Alexander, Gardoni, Vaissade, and Marceau. Then a fire in his caravan left him horribly burnt and his left hand partially paralysed. There followed a long period of terrible suffering. For a year and a half Django was bedridden and became increasingly frantic not about the serious condition of his leg but about the hand which refused to heal, threatening to put an untimely end to his musical ambitions. By long, painful and lonely exercise the young guitarist succeeded, against all expectation, in overcoming his terrible handicap inventing an instrumental technique that was entirely his own. As his friend and mentor Charles Delaunay observed : “Django was gifted with such dexterity that partial disablement became a challenge which it was a point of pride to overcome.”

Even after paralysis of his left hand, he had to completely retrain himself to play Gypsy Guitar, which is of course extremely difficult music to play, and ended up playing with basically only his two fingers, to an extreme virtuoso level.

There is a good video on www.youtube.com of Django playing with Stephan Grappelli, its truly amazing to watch his technique of two fingered guitar.

Originally posted by DrBones666
Thanks very much ML!

May I enquire as to whether you're still an axeman?

Yes, but these days I play for pleasure only. It's been many moons since my garage band days (a personal pun...one of the bands I played in was called Many Moons, and we did Sabbath, Zep, Purple, Trapeze, Heep, and Blue Oyster Cult covers).

Have you heard of a Gypsy Guitarist by the name of Django Reinhardt? Truly amazing story.

Yes, Reinhardt is considered one of all-time greats in guitar, not only in jazz, but in all genres. In fact, he was a big influence on Tony Iommi. At the time, Black Sabbath was called Earth, and they were mostly playing blues and Beatles covers. Iommi was already a Reinhardt fan, and received a lot of inspiration from him after losing his own finger.

I don't really see this as a conspiracy, myself, although I do see possibilities for how music can be used by the NWO. If I recall correctly, Hitler played music at his rallies of a type to get people worked up and emotional, for example.

Maybe I don't see the conspiracy because my music collection has a wide range of stuff;I've got both the stuff you are extolling and the stuff you are bashing in it. For example, three of the musicians whose music I have on my computer are Beethoven, Avril Lavigne, and KMFDM. Go figure, maybe I'm just weird, hehe.

Lame, you guys are *insult removed*, incase you havent noticed or picked it up yet all forms of media outletes have been and always will be used by the NWO, from your dear mozart to britney spears. Jazz is crap its *profanity removed* music and thats all it will ever be im sad that hitler didnt get rid of it all when he had the chance. Classical music is old and stale its been done before, and as for you pop sucks all music now sucks. Well it has always been composed by the NWO and used by them wether it be for messages to trends and movements to making money.

Thats what music is their for nowadays to set and image and its to make money all thanks to the NWO, back in mozarts day it was for entertainmnet.... and to make money. So well you sit back and bitch you wish you had another wolfe gang realize your dear heros of music long dead, where the members of the NWO.

Nowadays all popular music is created and generated by a computer, it has been that way since 1960's so nothing is ever going to change. It will only get worse from here, nobody is forcing you to listen to any of the new music theirs tons of old classical music thats new and produced today, you just dont look for it.

So rather than being a *insult removed* and slandering music because it doesnt fit your *profanity removed* tastes why not go out and do something about it *insult removed*!

Mod Note: Terms & Conditions - Please READ!

[edit on 2006/7/19 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by DrBones666
Thanks very much ML!

May I enquire as to whether you're still an axeman?

What you were saying about Tony Iommi I find quite interesting, losing a digit is one of my worst nightmares when it comes to music.

Have you heard of a Gypsy Guitarist by the name of Django Reinhardt? Truly amazing story.

Django is great. Properbly one of the greatest guitar players to have ever lived.


Most 'virtuoso' guitar music is pure trash. Alot of players seem to sacrifice good vibrato and melodic phrasing for mindless speed.

Malmsteen has both great vibrato and phrasing, at the same time being able to apply furious speed aswell.

But anyway, I agree. The music industry has gone down hill. Paganini and Bach would have heart attacks if they turned on MTV.




[edit on 19-7-2006 by Spreadthetruth]

Originally posted by Orderoftheblazingsun

*snip*

Well....apart from being highly offensive not only to me but to the entire African race, you admit to being a fan of Hitler?

I wouldn't usually stoop so low as to even reply to such a pitiful display, but the fact that you can't even phrase your arguments correctly, or spell properly, I felt warranted mention to the more capable members of the board.

I don't know whether to laugh at you or pity you.

After reading your reply, I thought I'd have a stroll though some of your other posts, and I have to say, you seem quite incoherent, may I enquire as to whether you suffer from some kind of intellectual impairment?

I would think that your extermist Nazi beliefs would require people of your obvious mental and social incapability to be exterminated along with the rest of the *racist expletive* boppers?

As to your statement that I should get out and do something about it, well, other than playing 5 instruments to a professional standard, and having won the best Up and Coming Jazz Trombonist in Queensland Award while I was still in High School in 2001 what else would you like me to do other than join the local Hitler Youth?

I think by now you should have realised that such ignorance does not belong here at ATS, the said Mission Statement is to Deny Ignorance, not promote such.

Finally, I would think that a Moderator should look at your various posts, including the one above and take appropriate action, you obviously don't have the capacity to operate here at ATS effectively.

In the words of Ashleigh Brilliant, "I feel that I need what only you can provide: your absence"

You have delighted us long enough, good day sir.


[edit on 19-7-2006 by DrBones666]
mod edit: quote...

[edit on 2006/7/19 by Hellmutt]

[edit on 7-19-2006 by Springer]

I agree! Music these day is nothing what is was. Im only 15 and I cant go back and say I was there when all these wonderfull musicians were around. Now the mark on my generation are all these crappy techno rap, industrial death metal artists who couldnt play an apreggio or a blues proggresion anymore that I can go to the moon. I have playyed trumpet 4 years tuba 2 and am now starting to learn blues and jazzon electric guitar and bass(whcih I have been playing a year.) All I can say is that tuning a guitar donw to drop d and playing really heavey is as fun as messing aroubnd on blues scales and progressions. My onlt weakness is my love of nirvana and the grunge movment of which I am a huge fan of but at least those bands lyrics and music were new to there time they just werent cobbled together to get a million dollars. O well I guess the human talent pool is just getting scuked dry.
(no offense to any one who I my have offended.)

I'd like to agree with you in principle, but I don't think it's as simple as that.

Nobody listens to genuine virtuoso instrumentalists anymore, this is very sad, electronic music has killed the industry

I don't believe you really think that. I think you say that because of what you hear on commercial radio and television.

Are you saying pioneers like Kraftwert or Giorgio Moroder are talentless? Or that their music and productions are not art?

Electronic music is probably where the most exciting stuff is happening in popular music in the past 25-30 years. The skill and thought that goes into the composition of electronic and dance music is comparable with Jazz or Classical music IMO because of it's creation of not just melodies or 3 minute verse-chorus-verse-chorus songs, but the creation of non linear ideas and soundscapes...... Even a DJ in a club has to construct a set of music that leads the listener effortlessly through the experience, with peaks and valleys.

As an 80s child, I do agree that modern popular music that the record companies pump the most marketing cash into and that the mass-media promotes has decreased in quality - This is due to a number of factors:

• Reliance on image to sell sound
  MTV was a great invention - A channel entirely based on advertising - advertising with content, but still advertising.
  One can chart a visible and steady reliance on the medium of the music video to sell and promote music. It's very rare,
  surely none-existant in 2006, for a single to reach the top #40 in the mainstream music charts without having a promotional
  video to promote it. The budgets for these promo videos run into the millions of dollars, it comes to a point where, for many
  youth-marketed acts, the video is more important than the music.
  
  Music is an aural medium - it exists entirely outside of the visual medium, but this intertwining with the visual medium
  means artists that don't look like the Pussy Cat Dolls or Ricky Martin may not receive as much cash injected into their promotion
  as an act with model looks, because, simply, it's easier to market a piece of ass. This leads into all sorts of other pseudo-conspiracy
  areas as the consumerisation and sexualisation of children, and like magazines and other forms of mass-media setting of unrealist
  body images and role-models.
  
  The degeneration of popular music goes hand in hand with the record companies realisation that controversy and image can make a helluvah
  lot of money, even if the product itself is lacklustre.
  
  
• The conglomeration of record companies
  The big boys merging, and engulfing smaller record companies leads to less diversification in music.
  In an attempt to increase profits and decrease costs, it means less risks are taken in signing new artists, less money and time
  is spent with existing artists to hone their talents and allow them the time and experience to blossom.
  

The record companies are scrambling to find a water-tight way of promoting and distributing music digitally since the advent of the internet.
It has had some success, but file-sharing is still one of their main concerns, and scapegoats.
Go back 20-25 years, it was tape-dubbing that was the evil crime of kids who were killing the record companies. It's the same thing now.

The record companies are so tied up in making big profits, they're missing opportunities to use the internet as a trend-watcher.
There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of young people in Western countries who download and purchase music from all over the
non-English speaking world - Yet they've never seen any of these artists promoted on their MTV or pop magazines or radio stations.
For example: Japanese music is very popular, this is almost entirely down to the internet and kids pro-actively seeking out new music
that interests them - The record companies have done very little to recognise this trend, and certainly would never stoop so low as to
insult their existing audiences by promoting non-English language music to them.


None of this has anything to do with electronic music - Electronic music is the area of popular music where innovation of pushing of
boundaries has been the strongest in the past 30 years: from New Wave, Electropop, Disco, House and it's hundreds of sub-genres, this
is where the most exciting things have been happening in music, not the tired formats of bass, drums and guitar or the pretty-faced crooner.

You can't put the blame on electronic music if what you really mean is commercially mass-produced music promoted and designed to make
money and reach the widest consumer-base possible.

There is excellent new music - the evolution of music has never halted for a second, it continues to surprise and emote -- But you will
rarely find this experience by flicking on MTV or looking at what albums are making the top ten this week, because that top-level of
sheen is not where the risk-takers and innovators sit, because it's a risky business putting money into promoting them.

[edit on 20-7-2006 by VelvetSplash]

There's not much more I could add to this thread but, Masonic Light it's hard to find fellow Ritchie Blackmore fans.
I always thought that he was very underrated, there was a time when I could play nearly every deep purple and rainbow song.

I agree with the original poster, music today aint what it used to be. No doubt there is a conspiracy out there to control the masses through popular culture and music.

Some stuff by Theodore Adorno is well worth reading if you're interested in the subject.(warning,heavy reading for some)