Breaking News : Isreal attacks airport in Beirut, page 4

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 10:25 AM

link

Originally posted by the_sentinal
someone said on another thread that the IDF website just went down..........this could be it ....WAR!!

That happened before when the Invasion of Gaza Strip started:

Pro-Palestinian hackers attack Israeli websites

The fighting between the Palestinians and Israelis has expanded into the internet battle field yesterday, with 700 Israeli web domains being hacked by worms and viruses planted by hackers sympathetic to the Palestinians. The group call themselves "Team-Evil" and claim to be based out of Morocco. They have been spreading their 'evil' since 2004.

A range of different Web sites were targeted by the group, including Web sites of banks, medical centers, car manufacturers and pension funds. Well-known companies and organizations, including Bank Hapoalim, the Rambam Medical Center, Bank Otsar Ha-Hayal, BMW Israel, Subaru Israel and Citr en Israel, real estate company Tarbut-Hadiur and the Jump fashion Web site all found their Web sites shut down and replaced by the message: "Hacked by Team-Evil Arab hackers u KILL palestin people we KILL Israel servers".

Cyber-Warfare in Full Effect.

RedGolem

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 10:37 AM

link

Originally posted by thematrix
I in no way can see or understand the notion of "kidnapped" enemy soldiers.
Why do people keep trying to put that type of spin on things?

Soldiers are captured by enemy or foreign forces, kidnapping requires at least 1 or all parties to be civilian.

Not Kidnapped, but captured...?
One implayes war the other peace. Isreal had not been at war with Lebonan when the bombs were planed on the road that destroyed the vehicle and the solder was captured. That was what started the conflict this time with lebonan, at least started it in the degree it is now in.
So was the capture an act of terror, or an act of war?
If your post is correct then it is an act of war. And all this mess is not justified.

Or if it is not an act of war, the kidnapped, and help for ransem. Such as held for and untill the Lebanisee prisners are reliced in an exchange.

Imperium Americana

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 11:15 AM

link

Originally posted by thematrix
Sources? To lazy to goto BBC, CNN and the other major news sites?

And the soldiers are captured by enemy forces not civilians.
You can claim all you want they are in escence civilians, but the second they join an organized armed militaristic group, militia or even an organized weaponized gang, they become enemy forces, enemy combatants, militia members, terrorists and so on and are no longer civilians.

When they are killed or captured themselves they are called enemy forces, terrorists, enemy combatants, militia's and not civilians.

[edit on 13/7/06 by thematrix]

Hi welcome to ATS. At ATS when someone makes a claim, people here tend to want to see the source of the claim. It is considered good etiquette. When one fail to show sources members typically ask for them. The proper response to this is to simply find a URL or two to back up your post. While Souljah and I never see eye-to-eye on this subject, he does go out of his way to post sources. It is part of the being a good neighbor aspect of ATS.
Making comments about another member (one who as requested validation of your claim) being too lazy to search themselves, is in fact a silly way of dealing with the issue. Additionally when someone refuses to back up a claim it only serves to undermined the initial claim. But hey no hard feelings and once again welcome to ATS, Namaste!

Originally posted by Souljah

Gee, let's role back a little and find out where the ROOTS of Hizb'Allah are, shall we?

Hizb'Allah

Hezbollah or Hezb-Allah is a Lebanese Islamist group founded in 1982 by Lebanese Shia to fight the Israeli occupation in southern Lebanon. Along with the Amal movement, Hezbollah is the main political party representing the Shia community, Lebanon's largest religious bloc. Founded with the aid of Iran, it follows the distinctly Shiite Islamist ideology. It calls for the establishment of an Islamic state in Lebanon, on the principle of sovereignty of the jurisconsult, although recognising that this could only come about with the consensus of the Lebanese people.

In addition to its military wing, Hezbollah maintains a civilian arm, which runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities and participates in the Lebanese Parliament. Its Reconstruction Campaign (Jihad al-Bina) is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Shia-populated areas of Lebanon.

A number of Western governments, including that of the United States, have designated it a terrorist organization, while the European Union has designated the party's external security wing, but not the organization as a whole, as a terrorist organization.

Wow!

"Strangly" they were formed because of the Israel OCCUPATION of southern Lebanon. How is that possible? Suprised? I guess yet another proof that an Occupation Always triggers a Resistance - and in this case, Israel is responsible for the Birth of Hizb'Allah, since their Occupaton of Southern Lebanon triggered the Birth of this Organisation.

And as you can see, Hizb'Allah has a Military and a Civilan Wing, which means that they are members of Armed Forces. But ofcourse, they are Evil Terrorists for the Standards of United States - European Union holds back a little. So, if they are a Terrorist Organization, then Israel is a Terrorist State - which also means that almost all countries of this world are Terrorist States; you can either have it both ways or no way at all. Either everybody is a Terrorist or No-One. Becase when Israel targets CIVILAN Infrastructure in Lebanon or Gaza Strip that is Also an Act of Terrorism, since Terrorism means 'the use or threat of serious violence' to advance some kind of 'cause' - and by that definition Everybody is a Terrorist! But since the start of the alleged "War on Terror" it is very clear how Mighty Countries use that Term - all the enemies of the state are Terrorists.

Pure and Simple.

[edit on 13/7/06 by Souljah]

Oh wow Thanks for the history lession Souljah.

But you still missed my point. They are the security wing of a political party. They are not the armed wing of a country. An example for us in the US would be if the Republicans had a militia. Even if they were the ones taking the fight to the enemy, they are still not members of the US military. They Are Militia

Militia: An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.

But even if we consider them to be a reserve portion of the Lebanese military, then their actions would be an act of war. And do not give me your tired list of IDF over flights. Over flights in and of themselves are not acts of war. Even if the over flights were a bit hostile, they we all in response to provocations by Hezbollah. So spare us your anti-jew rhetoric. We get it, you hate Israel. The Arabs can do no wrong and they are simply being destroyed by the Zionist crusade, blah blah blah!

Originally posted by RedGolem

Not Kidnapped, but captured...?
One implayes war the other peace. Isreal had not been at war with Lebonan when the bombs were planed on the road that destroyed the vehicle and the solder was captured. That was what started the conflict this time with lebonan, at least started it in the degree it is now in.
So was the capture an act of terror, or an act of war?
If your post is correct then it is an act of war. And all this mess is not justified.

Or if it is not an act of war, the kidnapped, and help for ransem. Such as held for and untill the Lebanisee prisners are reliced in an exchange.

Exactly my point. Which way do the Arab terrorist lovers here want it? Either the attacks were kidnapping, and committed by civilians, or they were committed by non-civilians and it is an act of war. It is pretty clear but the anti-Semites and ill informed will never see that Israel is any thing but a great demon set to control the world. You can not rationalize with irrational people. What is funny is that if the Jews really controlled the world, you would think they could do better job with their home country.

Souljah

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 11:21 AM

link

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Oh wow Thanks for the history lession Souljah.

You are Most Welcome!

But you still missed my point. They are the security wing of a political party.

Wrong.

Hezbollah Wins Easy Victory In Elections in Southern Lebanon

You wanted Democracy in Middle East?

There you have it!

Mouth

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 11:27 AM

link

Originally posted by Souljah
And as you can see, Hizb'Allah has a Military and a Civilan Wing, which means that they are members of Armed Forces. But ofcourse, they are Evil Terrorists for the Standards of United States - European Union holds back a little. So, if they are a Terrorist Organization, then Israel is a Terrorist State - which also means that almost all countries of this world are Terrorist States; you can either have it both ways or no way at all. Either everybody is a Terrorist or No-One.
[edit on 13/7/06 by Souljah]

I am sorry, please quickly remind me when the United States, a country in Europe, Southern America, etc etc etc had an incident where a bomb killed innocent people during a funeral. Please show me recurring examples, day after day, of car or bus bombings, suicidal attacks, etc etc.

No matter what you say, the fact remains that the extremists "over there" commit the actions that define the term "Terrorism."

Souljah

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 11:41 AM

link

Originally posted by Mouth
I am sorry, please quickly remind me when the United States, a country in Europe, Southern America, etc etc etc had an incident where a bomb killed innocent people during a funeral. Please show me recurring examples, day after day, of car or bus bombings, suicidal attacks, etc etc.

You sure you are Ready?

The History Of Washington's Occupations
The West has been Liberating the Middle East for Centuries
America's destiny is to police the world
58 Years Of "shock And Awe"
"U.S. Is A Leading Terrorist State"
THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA PART ONE
THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA PART TWO
The Weapons Of American Terrorism
An account of American terrorism in Vietnam
America's list of terrorism
McVeigh Terrorist Attack - Part of an Old Tradition?
The United States is a Leading Terrorist State
A forgotten episode in American terrorism

"The leaders of the United States do not realise that their desire to win at everything always has consequences, and that their present exploits are likely to have high future costs. Osama bin Laden was the price of the US victory over the USSR in Afghanistan. What will be the next bill due?"
Noam Chomsky

[edit on 13/7/06 by Souljah]

AlienS

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 12:07 PM

link

Pro-Palestinian hackers attack Israeli websites

The fighting between the Palestinians and Israelis has expanded into the internet battle field yesterday, with 700 Israeli web domains being hacked by worms and viruses planted by hackers sympathetic to the Palestinians. The group call themselves "Team-Evil" and claim to be based out of Morocco. They have been spreading their 'evil' since 2004.

Ok. I'm probably overthinking here, but why would a group call themselves "Team-Evil" if they believe they are doing the right thing? If they support the Palestinians, and believe in what they do, then why would they call themselves evil? I know it might be insignificant, considering everything else happening, but it just seems really weird.

Xeros

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 12:20 PM
link

Originally posted by AlienS

Pro-Palestinian hackers attack Israeli websites

The fighting between the Palestinians and Israelis has expanded into the internet battle field yesterday, with 700 Israeli web domains being hacked by worms and viruses planted by hackers sympathetic to the Palestinians. The group call themselves "Team-Evil" and claim to be based out of Morocco. They have been spreading their 'evil' since 2004.

Ok. I'm probably overthinking here, but why would a group call themselves "Team-Evil" if they believe they are doing the right thing? If they support the Palestinians, and believe in what they do, then why would they call themselves evil? I know it might be insignificant, considering everything else happening, but it just seems really weird.

Probably because it's a lie and a psy-op to further inflame opinions against 'terrorists' ie (muslims). Thanks for pointing that out.

Imperium Americana

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 12:28 PM
link

Originally posted by Souljah
You are Most Welcome!

ROFLMAO Ok I deserved that!

Wrong.

Hezbollah Wins Easy Victory In Elections in Southern Lebanon

You wanted Democracy in Middle East?

There you have it!

Kidding aside....did you even read the article you posted. It proved my point. They won 23 uncontested seat for the S. region of Lebanon. In the article you posted it said, and I quote:

In last Sunday's polls in Beirut, anti-Syrian opposition candidates took most of the capital's 19 parliamentary seats….
Hezbollah, backed by Syria and Iran, is fielding 14 candidates across Lebanon, hoping to build on the nine seats it already holds in the 128-member legislature. It has already won a seat in Beirut.

So lets do the math, shall we. 9+14 +23= 46. Hezbollah has 46 of 128 seats in the Parliament. not quite the ruling party as you were suggesting, I believe there is a colition govt standing in their way. I am not saying they do not wield power; they in fact lead quite a bit. But they are by no means the armed wing of the Lebanese government. They are in fact a security militia for the largest political party in Lebanon. But thanks for the URL it proved my point quite well.

missed_gear

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 12:50 PM
link

Israel’s actions/overreactions justifiable or not…Hezbollah as "arm of the government" or not... Hezbollah is recognized, represented, supported and allowed to exist by Lebanon. Sheik Hassan Nasrallah is giving press conferences in Beirut and Lebanon recognizes Hezbollah as a legitimate resistance group. Hezbollah is heavily entrenched in the Lebanese government, supported by the Shia community which comprises near 40% of Lebanon’s populace, and was the only remaining militia allowed to exist by the Lebanese government following their civil war. The decision to not disarm Hezbollah and not to gain control of the south is Lebanon’s.

Furthermore, the UN has gone as far to allow Lebanon absorb the militant arm of Hezbollah into it military to aid in satisfying UNSC resolution 1559 which requires Lebanon to enforce her authority in her territory and disarm all local and foreign factions operating on her soil…of which nothing has occurred especially concerning Hezbollah’s military arm. The relationship is very close.

mg

Mouth

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 12:51 PM
link

Originally posted by Souljah

The History Of Washington's Occupations
The West has been Liberating the Middle East for Centuries
America's destiny is to police the world
58 Years Of "shock And Awe"
"U.S. Is A Leading Terrorist State"
THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA PART ONE
THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA PART TWO
The Weapons Of American Terrorism
An account of American terrorism in Vietnam
America's list of terrorism
McVeigh Terrorist Attack - Part of an Old Tradition?
The United States is a Leading Terrorist State
A forgotten episode in American terrorism

Most of those sites describe actions taken by the american government, not by terrorist cells hidden within our own society. Yes, the US has done terrible things during previous wars, and yes, some political dealings in the past were with some tyrant like rulers, but that does not therefore make the US a terrorist nation.

The "civilians" of these countries you are so quickly willing to verbally defend tell their children to run at US soldiers and throw grenades at them. Do you see, or have you ever seen, and american mother say that to their children? No. Do the people in NYC fear for their lives when they go to work every day? Not at all.

I still refuse to think that the US is on the same page as many of the Middle Eastern countries when it comes down to terror. We may be imperial, though.

Xeros

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 01:10 PM
link

Originally posted by Mouth

Originally posted by Souljah

The History Of Washington's Occupations
The West has been Liberating the Middle East for Centuries
America's destiny is to police the world
58 Years Of "shock And Awe"
"U.S. Is A Leading Terrorist State"
THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA PART ONE
THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA PART TWO
The Weapons Of American Terrorism
An account of American terrorism in Vietnam
America's list of terrorism
McVeigh Terrorist Attack - Part of an Old Tradition?
The United States is a Leading Terrorist State
A forgotten episode in American terrorism

Most of those sites describe actions taken by the american government, not by terrorist cells hidden within our own society. Yes, the US has done terrible things during previous wars, and yes, some political dealings in the past were with some tyrant like rulers, but that does not therefore make the US a terrorist nation.

The "civilians" of these countries you are so quickly willing to verbally defend tell their children to run at US soldiers and throw grenades at them. Do you see, or have you ever seen, and american mother say that to their children? No. Do the people in NYC fear for their lives when they go to work every day? Not at all.

I still refuse to think that the US is on the same page as many of the Middle Eastern countries when it comes down to terror. We may be imperial, though.

Definitions of terrorism:-

The Oxford English Dictionary defines terrorism as "a policy intended to strike with terror those against whom it is adopted; the employment of methods of intimidation; the fact of terrorising or condition of being terrorised."
Webster's New International Dictionary defines terrorism as the "act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; specif.: a The system of the Reign of Terror. b A mode of governing, or of opposing government, by intimidation. c Any policy of intimidation
The definition of the term in the Oxford Concise Dictionary of Politics (2nd edition) begins:
Term with no agreement amongst government or academic analysts, but almost invariably used in a pejorative sense, most frequently to describe life-threatening actions perpetrated by politically motivated self-appointed sub-state groups.
The American Heritage Dictionary defines terrorism as "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

Source Wikipedia

So it is hard to find a true definition untill the UN accepts or creates one. Why have they not?

The "civilians" of these countries you are so quickly willing to verbally defend tell their children to run at US soldiers and throw grenades at them. Do you see, or have you ever seen, and american mother say that to their children? No. Do the people in NYC fear for their lives when they go to work every day? Not at all

This is generalisation. And the reason New Yorkers do not live in fear or feel threatened is because their country has not been infiltrated/attacked (which ever way you see it) by other forces.

[edit on 13-7-2006 by Xeros]

darksided

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 01:32 PM
link

Originally posted by Souljah
Hezbollah Wins Easy Victory In Elections in Southern Lebanon

You wanted Democracy in Middle East?

There you have it!

Exactly, if people choose their government to be terrorists through the action of voting, which is what Democracy is, then what moral obligation should the world have for people who support death and destruction for political conquest in the name of racism and religous hatred? By your own arguments, you claim the world should honor those type of terrorist supporting people more than countries that act with respect to human life. Nope, sorry, by definition democracy is people power, and people are accountable for the leadership, which means if the leadership acts badly, the people deserve the consequences. This is most true in the US, because when the US leadership does wrong, it reflects on the people, and the people police stupid behavior from our leaders through elections.

Souljah you never cease to amaze me. You complain endlessly in almost every thread lately about how the US is too imperialistic, too overpowering, and too involved, only now to cite statistics that shows the US isn't giving enough money to a group you would prefer seen given money, in other words, the US isn't involved enough for your taste afterall because of what you see as a lack of equal equity for both sides, even though one side is an organization listed on the US terrorism list.

The irony is, the US money given to Israel is also used by Israel to support the Palestians, that structure was put into place by the Clinton administration as apart of the peace process in the 90s. You also failed to mention that Hamas was taking the money Israel gives them after Israel gets it from the US, and Hamas was buying weapons from Syria and Iran with that money.

You are so busy trying to paint the US and Israel evil you willingly distort statistics by not telling the whole story, then you give a free pass to terrorists and terror organizations and their actions claiming it doesn't equal some other horrible event, as if there is moral equivilence in any violence. You have taken your message flying through the ATS forums trying to portrait yourself as some kind of a freedom fighter... sorry I don't buy it.

Freedom fighters don't run around excusing people who commit violence for political statements, don't willingly make themselves puppets of other governments; which appears to be what both Hamas and Hezbollah are doing for Iran; and freedom fighters support what is best for the regular people, something Hezbollah and Hamas are clearly not doing with these kidnappings. Iran gives well over a hundred million dollars per year for decades to terror organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah just to fight Israel, including 100 million alone for Hezbollah, yet in your eyes Israel and the US are the bad guys and deserve all the blame.

Good job supporting the puppets on the string mr. freedom fighter and nice job standing strong for the terror enablers, as an online freedom fighter you've become a tool for the propagation of more ignorance, and the sad part is, you appear proud of it.

You can take this criticism as a personal attack, or for what it actually is, a blunt counter to your arguments and assertions abusing statistics intentionally to manipulate the truth by ignoring the 'rest of the story.'

12m8keall2c

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 01:48 PM
link

Just on CNN a second Israeli airstrike on Beruit airport.

This time they targetted the fuel tanks.

This whole situation seems to be escalating quite rapidly.

darksided

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 02:24 PM
link

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
This whole situation seems to be escalating quite rapidly.

Starting to look like Israel wants it that way. Does anyone else get the feeling the two major players here is Israel and Iran, and everyone else (including the US) is just a pawn playing some part of a chess match?

RedGolem

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 02:25 PM
link

My defenation of terrorisem:

A person comiting a crime in order to sway, or change public opinion on any issue.

Short, simple, and my and only my opinion.

RedGolem

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 05:22 PM
link

More unplesent related news.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

A rocket possibly from Iran.

www.abcnews.go.com...

edit for typo and another link

[edit on 13-7-2006 by RedGolem]