Is America ready to aid Israel?

Originally posted by Denied
I dont think this is about the hostages, or prisoners.

Just what the aims of the players in all of this, is what im not sure about.

Now with things heating up, would be a good time to go knock those Iranian nuclear plants out, no?
They are bombing everything else??

I wonder the same thing. Perhaps this was all strategic. We all know America and Israel don't want Iran's nuclear reactors there. I wouldn't be surprised by the end of this all, Israel would have taken out the reactors and attempted or succeeded in trying to kill the Iranian leader leaving the UN to bring peace there...No more need for the US to bs with China & Russia in an endless debate of "should we or shouldn't we".

Israel's leadership has never been content to just be grateful for what they were given.

They refuse to live and let live or make any strives for meaningful peace in the region.

While the kidnapping of their soldiers is a serious matter, their response has only escalated
matters.

Frankly I'm sick of this endless feud and strongly believe that the U.S. has no business
funding Israel or any other war mongering country in the region.

The zionist lobby was recently stated as the lobby with the most influence on American foreign policy (and if you believe it) it would be hard for a President to change United States policy on Israel.

If you look at the who's who founders of PNAC, it's quite clear that Israel's Hawks
are heavily involved in everything that has gone down since 2000.

Getting back to the question posed by this thread, Is America ready to aid Israel? Well, as far as I am concerned, Israel is now aiding America. By opening two new fronts to the war on Islamic terrorism (as viewed by the U.S. and Israel), Israel is, essentially, drawing from the pool of those who would have gone on to be insurgents in Iraq. By invading Lebanon and shelling Palestinians, the Israelis are depriving potential Iraqi insurgents from organizing, training and traveling. Israel's strikes have, in essence, eased the pressure that the Americans' have been under in Iraq.

I expect that attacks in Iraq will escalate on the short term and, very quickly, decrease. Perhaps to levels that would allow for troops to begin leaving Iraq as the Bush admininstration would like to see happen before the congressional elections.

As far as whether the Americans' will help Israel, trust me, they already are; the U.S. will support the Israeli military with increased munitions and materiel -- tanks, aircraft, radar, etc.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
This is such bs. Wars should only be fought by America, FOR America. We should not care about other countries anymore, and butt our noses anyplace.

Here here! Israel is out for Israel. They could care less about Americas interests. When Israel was caught spying on the US AGAIN, yes I said AGAIN, the US should have said "Fine, fend for yourselves". I have no grudges against the Israelies at all, in fact I admire the courage it takes to live in a state of constant awareness bordering on fear. I do however have a problem with the government there. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it a one way street? The US constantly is doing for Israel. Israel leaders are constantly holding their hand out, demanding more, as if the US owes them something. IMHO Israel would be nothing but a smoking hole in the ground if it weren't for the US. Then Israel goes and spies on the US. Horrendous. Also just about everyone here at ATS has heard the theories that Israel had involvement with the 9/11 attacks against the US. I for one am a believer in this. Again, I have to say "I HAVE NO ISSUES WITH THE ISRAELIS, NOR JEWS" It is the political agenda of the Israeli government that I have a real problem with.

A lot of people keep saying Israel is escalating this mess because of 1 soldier.

This is not about just 1 soldier.

This is about the Palestinian people voting Hamas is as their government and the fact that the Palestinians new governments STATED goal is the destruction of Israel.

Hamas has maintained all along that they WILL NOT change their position on their goal to destroy Israel.

This is also about the fact that the Palestinians new government has made NO attempt to stop the daily rocket attacks on Israel civlians.

Since Hamas came to power, there has been over 1,500 rocket attacks towards Israel. Hamas has made NO effort to stop that (Why would they, when their charter is the destruction of Israel).

This 1 soldier is just the straw that broke the camels back

If the government of you neighbors tells the entire world that they are going to do every thing in their power to try destroy you, and continues attacks against your civilian population, can you honestly tell me you'd want your government to "just sit back and take it?"

This is NOT about JUST 1 soldier.

But, I think Israel wants the international community to get involved. If the international community were to ask Israel to stop the assaults on Palestinians and Lebanon, then the international community will HAVE to address the terrorist attacks aimed at Israel too.

I could also see Israel trying to draw Syria into the battle, I know I would. And as already stated, if Iran gets involved that would be the perfect excuse to destroy Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Israel has a history of stopping antagonistic countries from developing Nuclear Weapons. And I, for one, cannot blame them.

One thing that hasn't been addressed or discussed is just which side of the border those Israelis were on when attacked / captured. Israel has been crossing the border at will for a long time and flying it's fighter aircraft over Lebanese and Syrian population centres in open acts of provocation. Where were all the reporters and news reports while these events were taking place? Where are all the reporters when Israelis murder innocent Palestinian women and children? An Israeli catches a cold from an Arab and it's headline news.
To say the western press shows open bias is to put it mildly.

These two unfolding scenarios with Gaza and now Lebanon were pre-planned events and the Israelis already had forces pre-positioned. Go figure
I'm sure if things escalate then the US will become involved militarily, which Israel expects. Hell, they haven't been paying all those members of congress "campaign funds" for so long for nothing

Gotta love organised religion huh? All of this goes way back and is rooted in archaic dogmatic beliefs systems... if only there was tolerance in this world.

No, America is not ready. NOWAY.

Peace

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Getting back to the question posed by this thread, Is America ready to aid Israel? Well, as far as I am concerned, Israel is now aiding America. By opening two new fronts to the war on Islamic terrorism (as viewed by the U.S. and Israel), Israel is, essentially, drawing from the pool of those who would have gone on to be insurgents in Iraq. By invading Lebanon and shelling Palestinians, the Israelis are depriving potential Iraqi insurgents from organizing, training and traveling. Israel's strikes have, in essence, eased the pressure that the Americans' have been under in Iraq.

I expect that attacks in Iraq will escalate on the short term and, very quickly, decrease. Perhaps to levels that would allow for troops to begin leaving Iraq as the Bush admininstration would like to see happen before the congressional elections.

As far as whether the Americans' will help Israel, trust me, they already are; the U.S. will support the Israeli military with increased munitions and materiel -- tanks, aircraft, radar, etc.

I have never looked at it from that angle, and I am sure glad you bring that up. The Iragi - Syrian border is a haven for terrorist to cross over. The problem I see with this is, if Israel brings down the governments of Syria and Lebanon, then do we have essentially the exact same situation as in Iraq over two more countries? Or is our plan for these territories in the case of all out war to destroy and move on? I don't see how we can get away with leveling countries to dust and not build them but build their neighbors, it just won't end in peace. Also note people that Israel is at war, and war is not pretty so civilians will be in the cross fire. It is sad I know and if it could be avoided it would be, but you have to bring down infistructure to get the bad guys. Israel and Palestine have both comitted atrocities, it has plaqued the area since the 1960's and it wont end soon. This surge of violence could spur a united front against Israel that America WILL defend against. We will never let Israel fight Iran by themselves, Bush has made that clear. Iran has been talking with Islamic states to unite against Israel, giving the ""Your either with us or against us" speach and I fear they ma be bold enough to help Hezbohla < sp? >. The fact that America has already condemned the Syrian and Iranian governments shows who we support openly. If Europe will not help us, and if the UN does not step in, I do not see how we can suppot being apart of a group of "Allies" who do not wish to help in times of war.

[edit on 7/13/2006 by Rockpuck]

On this thread written by Xeros Isreal Attacks Beirut Airport Isreal has openly attacked Lebanon, if the terrorist move into Syria with the soilders then Isreal very well may begin bombings of Syrian infistructure.

Originally posted by hlesterjerome
But, I think Israel wants the international community to get involved.

If this is the case shouldn't Israel begin to play by the rules of the international community? - perhaps complying with one or two UNSC resolutions would be a token gesture as a start.

Hamas is backed by Iran
Hezballah is backed by Syria.
Both groups have been firing on Israel. the US is saying that the two aformentioned nations are using this incident to try and escalate the situation and draw in other Arab nations. Lebanon is caught in the middle now. The Lebanese gov't, in response to the infrastructure bombings, pretty much expressed understanding in the initial attacks inside their nation.

Lebanese Interior Minister Ahmed Fatfat called the airport strikes a "general act of war," saying they had nothing to do with Hezbollah but were instead an attack against the country's "economic interests," especially its tourism industry.

Sounds like they didn't mind the first round of attacks inside Lebanon but these they do.


and as I picked out that quote on cnn, the banner across the top said Israeli intelligence says the terror groups are trying to move the captured soldiers to.....(cue drama music) IRAN!!

I heard a couple of people mention in another thread, that the U.S Navy were moving out to the area. Can anyone confirm this?

Originally posted by Communication_Burger
I heard a couple of people mention in another thread, that the U.S Navy were moving out to the area. Can anyone confirm this?

I looked around for these reports and as of now the only news I can find regarding our own Navy is that we had a tug boat in the Lebanese port that we removed after the airstrikes on the Beirut airport. Isreal is however moving a blockade on Lebanon which I agree with Lebanon that it is targeting their economy not just terrorist, to put pressure on the terrorist. And it is also true that the terrorist are trying to move the soilders to a "Far, far away place" where the Isreali army can't reach them. Iran support the terrorist networks and no doubt would love to hold a few Isrealis hostage. This is a truely scary situation, I hope the soilders are returned so Isreal can back down but I don't think it will happen.

CNN Report on Isreali war

[edit on 7/13/2006 by Rockpuck]

The US shouldn't get involved, and militarily, is moving more assets out of the region than in the region, which sortof signals that the US may have already told Israel they don't plan on getting involved.

Unless Israel is attacked by Iran or Syria, which would trigger legal treaty obligations, the US should stay out of it.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Getting back to the question posed by this thread, Is America ready to aid Israel? Well, as far as I am concerned, Israel is now aiding America. By opening two new fronts to the war on Islamic terrorism (as viewed by the U.S. and Israel), Israel is, essentially, drawing from the pool of those who would have gone on to be insurgents in Iraq. By invading Lebanon and shelling Palestinians, the Israelis are depriving potential Iraqi insurgents from organizing, training and traveling. Israel's strikes have, in essence, eased the pressure that the Americans' have been under in Iraq.

I expect that attacks in Iraq will escalate on the short term and, very quickly, decrease. Perhaps to levels that would allow for troops to begin leaving Iraq as the Bush admininstration would like to see happen before the congressional elections.

As far as whether the Americans' will help Israel, trust me, they already are; the U.S. will support the Israeli military with increased munitions and materiel -- tanks, aircraft, radar, etc.

I have never looked at it from that angle, and I am sure glad you bring that up. The Iragi - Syrian border is a haven for terrorist to cross over. The problem I see with this is, if Israel brings down the governments of Syria and Lebanon, then do we have essentially the exact same situation as in Iraq over two more countries? Or is our plan for these territories in the case of all out war to destroy and move on? I don't see how we can get away with leveling countries to dust and not build them but build their neighbors, it just won't end in peace. Also note people that Israel is at war, and war is not pretty so civilians will be in the cross fire. It is sad I know and if it could be avoided it would be, but you have to bring down infistructure to get the bad guys. Israel and Palestine have both comitted atrocities, it has plaqued the area since the 1960's and it wont end soon. This surge of violence could spur a united front against Israel that America WILL defend against. We will never let Israel fight Iran by themselves, Bush has made that clear. Iran has been talking with Islamic states to unite against Israel, giving the ""Your either with us or against us" speach and I fear they ma be bold enough to help Hezbohla < sp? >. The fact that America has already condemned the Syrian and Iranian governments shows who we support openly. If Europe will not help us, and if the UN does not step in, I do not see how we can suppot being apart of a group of "Allies" who do not wish to help in times of war.

[edit on 7/13/2006 by Rockpuck]

If America gets involved in ANOTHER war, gas prices shoot, and Israel is seen as the culprit, Republicans can kiss their majority house lead good bye. So are you REALLY sure that the Bush administration will support Israel openly? And who knows, maybe the CIA is behind it all. They have done such things before.

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If this is the case shouldn't Israel begin to play by the rules of the international community? - perhaps complying with one or two UNSC resolutions would be a token gesture as a start.
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YES...they should!

But, by the same token, so should the Palestinians.

Palestinians have also ignored UNSC resolutions.

My point here being...

BOTH parties should be held accountable for their actions.

Attempting to place blame on just one of the parties involved is not acceptable.

Remember "It take TWO to Tango."

I won't disagree with any of that hlesterjerome.

For me the frustration with Israel is the clear and blatent inconsistency in the way Israel is treated by the West in general and the US in particular.

You have to ask the question just why Israel continues to be supported in this way? and I keep coming back to three broad answers.

1. A continued feeling of corporate guilt by the Western powers for the treatment of the Jews in WWII which they did not recognise as being so horrific until too late.

2. A disproportionate influence in US Government by the Jewish lobby (and the really interesting question is just how 2% of the population can wield that kind of power in a "democracy").

3. A desire to use Israel as both a form of localised "nuisance" to occupy the Arab states and as a proxy with which to take action in the Middle East as it may occaisionally desire.

All this from a strictly non-US resident perspective of course.

My frustration is; humans not taking responsibility for their actions.

If you wage war then ---YOU ARE AT WAR---, and should be prepared to accept the consequences. If the consequences of waging war are not acceptable to you, then perhaps it’s time to explore alternative ways to attempt to solve your problems.

I personally feel that at this point in history, if the Palestinians were to stop ALL aggressive actions towards Israel and then sat back and waited, they could get all the sympathy they could stomach from the International Community, if Israel continues with their aggressive behavior. Under these circumstances, I believe the International Community would help the Palestinians, with or without the help of the United States.

And further, if we get that moron Bush out of office and get Hillary in instead, the Palestinians could probably get the United States support also. (OK, I made the last part up (which; don’t get me wrong, I firmly believe Bush is a moron)).

My problem with the Palestinians is that they continue to choose violence over exploring other possibilities, then run crying to the International Community when they have to face the negative consequences of their choices.

There are times when violence is not the only way to solve your problems