Dude, What's the deal with Israel these days?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I'm not talking about their rights, I'm talking about thinking it through, and finding a better way than going to war so easily. Like I said, now everyone will be kidnapping Israeli soldiers, just to taunt Israel.

This is exactly why the Israelis are retaliating so harshly. The Israeli government must demonstrate to the terrorists that if Israeli citizens and soldiers are kidnapped and held for ransom by the terrorist organizations, then they will pay a price. For every action there must be a reaction. Cause and effect.

The Israelis cannot seen to be weak or vulnerable to these kidnappings. It will only encourage more of the same. The terrorists may not realize that the cost outweighs the benefit until much later, but in the end that is the final goal of the Israeli government: to create so much cost to the terrorists that they will shy away from future attempts....even if it means making the terrorist's mothers and wives and children suffer.

Lebanon invaded Isreal to kidnap the soliders. That is an act of war. Isreal has every right to respond.

For those who say the soliders are POW's...then shouldn't their treatment conform to the Geneva Conventions? If the soldiers are beheaded will 'YOU' (youse know who I'm talking too) stand-up and say that Lebanon is guilty of war crimes?

Is the red cross able to visit these soliders? are they given the tora to read?

I think not...................so your bias shows.............

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Is it just me, or are they taking on a bit much these days? They seem like they want to fight with anyone who looks at them the wrong way.

I honestly don't understand this kind of thinking.

The palestinians are at war with the israelis and have attacked one of their military bases and taken a prisoner. Hezbollah attacked israel and is holding pows.

Israel has every legal right in the world to invade, occupy, attack, and do what they need to get those soliders back.

Its senseless to criticize Israel for fighting people that have attacked them.

What I mean is, is it a smart idea to attack multiple enemies at once? It seems like it would end in their forces being spread way too thinly. On top of that, If you notice the way Hezbollah kidnapped these soldiers, almost knowing that it would cause ths type of a rise out of Israel, doesn't it stand to reason that more kidnappings will follow?

People see it this way...
Every time the presure is on Iran,the mullahs are giving their dogs -Hizballah attack Israel so the attention of the World is focused on Israel...Isn't funny that today was the date when the iranians have to give their response to the world powers offer for their nuclear program...???
Next logical thing is to engage the british and american forces in Iraq with terrorist attacks...

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
What I mean is, is it a smart idea to attack multiple enemies at once? It seems like it would end in their forces being spread way too thinly. On top of that, If you notice the way Hezbollah kidnapped these soldiers, almost knowing that it would cause ths type of a rise out of Israel, doesn't it stand to reason that more kidnappings will follow?

Well I see your point in that Hezbollah and hamas did this knowing what kind of response they would get. In this way it would seem as though they are really trying to start an all out war. You just have to ask yourself if the US was in the same position would we stand by and do nothing? I think not.
Also, I think in saying that it may not be smart for them to attack multiple targets is to underestimate Israel, they have shown in the past that they are VREY capable of holding thier own against numberous enemies.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Its senseless to criticize Israel for fighting people that have attacked them.

Oh yet again the "Poor Israel" being portayed as a Victim.

If you did not notice, Israel is Illegally Occupying West Bank and Gaza Strip - therefore the Illegal occupation (much like the Illegal occupation of "Coalition of the Willing" in Iraq) triggers a Resistance. Therefore, Israel and Palestine are at war since 1967. Now, how can Israel be the Victim, when they are Illegally occupying territories which belong to Palestinians, breaking International Law, Geneva Conventions and 66 UN Resolutions?

So when an Israeli Soldier is being held prisoner in a Military Operation - remember, the war is going on since the ILLEGAL occupation from 1967 - that is perfectly legal according to under international law and the Geneva Conventions, to defend themselves against this illegal occupation.

So Israel CAN afford to hold hostage members of the Democraticly elected Palestinian goverment, but Palestinians can not hold 1 Israeli solder as their prisoner? And lets not forget that there are 9,599 Palestinians currently imprisoned in Israel.

Lebanon and Palenstein are two different 'countries'. Lebanon illegally invaded Isreal and kidnapped soliders....an act of WAR.

Since Isreal was attacked (or just about to be) in the 6 day war....they kept the 'spoils' of that confrontation to provide security.

If you are complaining about the creation of Isreal then take your arguement up with the UN who created it in 1948.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by ferretman2]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
What I mean is, is it a smart idea to attack multiple enemies at once? It seems like it would end in their forces being spread way too thinly. On top of that, If you notice the way Hezbollah kidnapped these soldiers, almost knowing that it would cause ths type of a rise out of Israel, doesn't it stand to reason that more kidnappings will follow?

haha, think about what you just said.

Your asking if Israel is very smart, because you know, the country with the 8th largest and 3rd most powerful military in the entire world is dealing with disorganized terrorist groups causing trouble just over their border, and this is somehow streching the 8th largest military in the world too thin. Then in the very next sentence, you point out how the enemy isdoing what they are doing because of Israel's harsh reaction, because everyone knows how Israel will retaliate, and you imply that makes them smart somehow?

If more kidnappings follow, more people will be killed by Israel, yet that makes Israel the stupid one under your logic?

I think your logic is flawed sir. I also think saying Israel is being stretched too thin shows how ignorant you must be of the Israeli military.

Israel is brilliant for responding the way it has. They are forcing Hamas to act like a government, and so far Hamas has refused. The problem for Hamas is that Israel is laying down some long term consequences, and when it is all said and done, the government of Hamas will have to answer to the people for those consequences.

The lack of critical evealuation in the actions of the Israeli's amazes me. So far their strategy has unified their population, raised morale, intimidated the hell out of threatening nations by calling up reserves, and left Hamas and Hezbella responsible and answerable for every piece of infrastructure destroyed. They are doing this by taking causalities only on the outer edges of thier settlements, and military causualties during the conflict, none of which leave long term consequences for Israel itself.

And in the meantime, all over the Arabic news forums online, the Iraqi Arabs are praising Israel for standing strong in the face of terrorism, something Iraqi's know all too well, and pointing out how stupid Hamas and Hezbella are for inciting more violence, which is really stirring critical thought among all Arabs throughout the region.

There is a bigger picture going on than is debated through the eyes of a few kidnappings and a few military responses, this is a hearts and minds war that is putting the value of human life against the devalue of human life, and those who are opposing Israel, in the eyes of many Arabs, by the arguments Hamas and Hezbella supporters themselves are making, are standing with those who don't value human life. Choose sides carefully, or better yet, don't choose sides and see the region change before your eyes as the concept of democracy sinks in to the average Arab on the street who is starting to figure out what democracy really means.

After all, choosing your government, and being able to hold your leaders accountable by tossing them out of power is a very new concept to that region.

Maybe Israel will attack Syria prompting Iran. Then Israel will attack Iran's nuclear reactors, because they attacked Israel. Oops no more talks with Russia & China for the US and EU. How very convenient. I think things couldn't work out better if this did happen.

Originally posted by iqonx
Strategically it actually a pretty stupid strategy. For 1 soldier they are mobilizing there forces for another fight or possibly even raids or even occupation of another country over 1 soldier.

How many should it take then before a country takes action to protect it's citizens?

In my opinion one is one too many. This has been the United State's problem for years. Since the 70's the safest thing that anyone could do was to kidnap and kill US citizens. Iran in 79, Lebanon in the early 80's I could go on and on. The one thing that I respect about the Israelis is their willingnesss to do what ever it takes to protect their people. One just has to look at Entebbe in 76 to see what I mean.

I seriously think that the Israeli soldier was taken because the people responsible wanted to provoke a reaction by Israel. This would give them a chance to whine about Israeli aggression to the world media.

Its funny how some are attacking Israel over this, how would you feel if one a member of your family were kidnapped, or blown up by someone with bombs strapped to their body.

Both sides are as bad as each other, Weither it is Israel being heavy handed or the other countries kidnapping soldiers.

Think the UN or even the US needs to tell them both enough is enough...

Can see this spilling over into other countries within the region.

This is playing into Iran and Syrias hands it is what they are wanting, to settle old scores to get back at Israel for beating them in the last war they fought.

Can see the US and Europe being drawn into this. As well as Russia.

Crap thinks I will start stalking up on food. Never know Nuke war might just be around the corner

But again the innocent victims in this are the Children of both countries. Weither they are Israely or Palentstine.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
What I mean is, is it a smart idea to attack multiple enemies at once?

Occupied Palestine doesn't have any real warmaking capabilities, and Lebanon apparently doesn't either. Some of their ministers have even called the attack on the Airport an Act of War, but I don't see any squadrons mobilizing.

It seems like it would end in their forces being spread way too thinly.[/quiote]
The interesting thing is that there is territory within lebanon that is more defensible than israel itself. So if the proverbial poo hits the fan, and there is an invasion from syria, the Israelis will be in a better position now with troops in lebanon because they can secure those more defendable positions.

doesn't it stand to reason that more kidnappings will follow?

Possibly, but I think that the troops are more difficult to capture when they are mobilized. THe palestinians captured them by undermining israeli positions, I don't know if that'd work now. I am not sure how hizbollah accomplished this feat.

Though I will say, Lebanon isn't the palestinian territories, and there is a delicate democratic movement within lebanon right now. The public witnessed the syrians leave, and now they see they are open to yehudi invasion. Of course, they were occupied themselves by the israelis while the syrians were there, so its not really a big benefit, but that is probably how a lot of peopel are playing it out now.

Infact, this attack might show that the people backing militant islam really are threatened by democratic movements, since this episode poses a great danger of destablizing one.

souljah
If you did not notice, Israel is Illegally Occupying West Bank and Gaza Strip

www.jerusalemites.org...
While it is true that victorious powers can legally occupy hostile territories seized in thecourse of conflict [...]foreign occupation should nevertheless be a temporary
situation, pending a political settlement or solution.

This is false. There is no requirement that occupation be temporary.

therefore the Illegal occupation [...]triggers a Resistance

An occupation does not have to be "illegal" in order to have a "legal" resistance. EVery nation or people has the right to resist an occupying power with violence. What is not legal, is targeting civilians as part of that resistance.

So Israel CAN afford to hold hostage members of the Democraticly elected Palestinian goverment,

Of course it can, its at war with them. It can but them to trial and execute them too.

but Palestinians can not hold 1 Israeli solder as their prisoner?

?
Rather, they are encouraged to capture and/or kill as many israeli soldiers as they can.

and 66 UN Resolutions?

If the UN beleives that Israel is in violation of its laws, then that is grounds for its expulsion from the UN, not an arguement for Israel to end the occupation.

ferretman2
Lebanon illegally invaded Isreal and kidnapped soliders....an act of WAR.

This is incorrect. A militia made up at least in part of lebanese people did this, not the State of Lebanon. The arguement can be made that the government supports hezbollah, but, realistically, its iran and syria that are the big pushers of hezbollah. Israel should invade them rather than focus on Lebanon. THe israeli response seems to be tempered by that; they aren't engaged in Total War with Lebanon.

retinoidreceptor
Then Israel will attack Iran's nuclear reactors, because they attacked Israel. Oops no more talks with Russia & China for the US and EU. How very convenient

Hey, that IS a good idea, we should be pushing for that perhaps. Infact, that might just prevent WWIII (or WWIV, depending on your outlook) from breaking out, because it will be seen as part of the natural 'cycle of violence' that is the result of the existence of israel to the other middle easterners, and thus not require an 'extreme' response (like the starting of WWIII).

Yea Israel is good thats why they kill 50 civilans when only 2 troops get kidnapped and 9 soldiers die. My goodness they are pissing the arabs off even more now so it looks like no more peace for a long time.