Hezbollah Seize Israel Soldiers

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Have these two "captured" soldiers been treated in accordance with the Geneva Conventions that you are so fond of espousing?

Well let's skip the topics, and ask ourselves, are the Detainees being held in Guantanamo being tread according to the Geneva Convetions?

I think not dear Sir.

Therefore, the Unites Statse goverment is on the same level as Hizb'Allah.

Either everybody is a Terrorist - or No-One.

We will assume henceforth that your insistence that these soldiers are "prisoners of war" that they are to be treated in full accordance of the The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols. Further, if these prisoners are treated in a manner not accepted by the Third convention that those that perpetrated said acts Hezbollah, and their puppet master Iran, are guilty of war crimes?

Well can you Show me a Country that actually OBEYS and FOLLOWS the Geneva Conventions? According to my Information, nobody does that anymore. So, if United States - the Most Powerl Country in the World - does not follow the Geneva Convetions, and they try to play the role of the World Cops, why do you think anybody else would?

When you Play the Cops, you better follow the Rules - or everybody will start ignoring them, since you are a Bad Cop and everybody knows that.

Slippery Slope Monkeys, not just for international humanitarian law anymore...

Funky Monkyes, not just to play Funk anymore...

[edit on 14/7/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
Well let's skip the topics, and ask ourselves, are the Detainees being held in Guantanamo being tread according to the Geneva Convetions?

Of course you need to change the subject, lest you brand the perpetrators of this "military action" for what they are... Terrorist thugs dangling on strings at the ends of Tehran's fingers... A pathetic Punch & Judy Show with the Lebanese citizens as the big loser.

As for treatment under the Geneva Convention, it stipulates uniformed military for POW status (which the soldiers were), what uniform were those detained wearing? And why are you calling them "detainees?"

Let us all know when these Israeli soldiers have their day in court, and their "plight" reviewed by an impartial judiciary .

Well can you Show me a Country that actually OBEYS and FOLLOWS the Geneva Conventions? According to my Information, nobody does that anymore. So, if United States - the Most Powerl Country in the World - does not follow the Geneva Convetions, and they try to play the role of the World Cops, why do you think anybody else would? humanitarian law anymore...

So now nobody plays by the rules... Fine... We'll have it your way again... let's throw out the rule book and just go bare knuckles across the globe... Want to bet who will win?

It's odd that you seem to find a stance of convenience, prisoners of war instead of kidnap victims... Or unlimited warfare with no rules or sanctions instead of international humanitarian law... When the instigators are... On your "side?"

Funky Monkyes, not just to play Funy anymore...

It's "Monkeys" and it's "funny," and I'm not playing...

[edit on 14/7/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Crakeur
Hezbollah... funded by roughly 100 million dollars a year from Iran among other sources. They are not gov't run.

The republican and democratic parties are also funded by sources other than the government. Are you suggesting that the dems and reps are terrorist organizations because they hold legislative seats and they are not government run or funded? If so I would agree with you.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Of course you need to change the subject, lest you brand the perpetrators of this "military action" for what they are... Terrorist thugs dangling on strings at the ends of Tehran's fingers... A pathetic Punch & Judy Show with the Lebanese citizens as the big loser.

Not changing subject - I am still talking about World Terrorism, and who is the Numero Ono World Terrorist State - and Lebanon can hardly get a place among top ten with their puny Hizb'Allah. YaknowhatImean?

Geeeeeeee I wonder how many strings hang from NSA, CIA, Mossad. MI6 or any other Western Intelligence ageency.

Ask yourself who got the MOST RESOURCES - and you will get a clearer picture, who can pull more strings...

As for treatment under the Geneva Convention, it stipulates uniformed military for POW status (which the soldiers were), what uniform were those detained wearing? And why are you calling them "detainees?"

How should I call them?

OH I know - TERRORISTS, right?

Let's roll with the Bush Terminology.

Hey - which Uniform did Khaled al-Masri wear when he was "Captured" by the CIA?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Funky Indeed.

Let us all know when these Israeli soldiers have their day in court, and their "plight" reviewed by an impartial judiciary .

Errr.. which Court is that?

A New Court constructed on Mars?

So now nobody plays by the rules... Fine... We'll have it your way again... let's throw out the rule book and just go bare knuckles across the globe... Want to bet who will win?

Well, can you show me SOMEBODY that does play by the Rules?

It's odd that you seem to find a stance of convenience, prisoners of war instead of kidnap victims... Or unlimited warfare with no rules or sanctions instead of international humanitarian law... When the instigators are... On your "side?"

So - CIA can Capture their Victims, Israel can also Capture their Victims; BUT, Terrible-Terrorist always KIDNAP, correct?

Wow - How Could I Be So Wrong!

It's "Monkeys" and it's "funny," and I'm not playing...

My Mistakle - I wanted to write Play Funk

Corrected....



[edit on 14/7/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by df1
The republican and democratic parties are also funded by sources other than the government. Are you suggesting that the dems and reps are terrorist organizations because they hold legislative seats and they are not government run or funded? If so I would agree with you.

yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting.

I was going to type more of a response but I have come to the realization that you will read what you want to read and interpret my words however you want.


Peace and happy arguing

Hezbollah didnt sign the Geneva Conventions so no it is not legally bound to treat those captured by the conventions. Thats not to say they should mistreat them, which hasnt been proven yet. But to say they have to treat them according to the Geneva Conventions is misleading.

Hezbollah is a Lebanese militia that is independant of the Lebanese government. It was formed during Lebanon's civil war when there was effectively no Lebanese government. They also fought against the illegal Israeli invasion of Lebanon in the 1980s.

Originally posted by jtma508
As an example, in 2000, Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon in accordance with UN Security Council Resolution 425 from 1978.

It only took them 22 years to comply with the will of the UN. I wonder what the world would be like if Saddam was given 22 years to comply with the UN resolutions against him. How about the occupation of Jerusalem? That runs contrary to the very founding UN document of Israel. They have no right to annex Jerusalem according to the resolution outlining and authourising a Jewish state.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Do you get your information from Al-menara (Hizbullah TV)? The Israeli soldiers were patroling the border on the Israeli side. This is Hezbullah aggression from start to finish.

Thats not what was reported. The Israeli soldiers were captured near Aita al-Shaab which is in Lebanon. There are also reports that the Israeli military still has not been able to recover the bodies of the dead IDF soldiers. If they were in Israel why are they having trouble recovering the bodies?

Also Israel shows contempt for international borders on a daily basis. When the Israeli airforce "buzzed" the Syrian President's residence it violated Syrian airspace. Using Olmert's logic that is an "act of war" and Syria would of been justified in blowing up Ben Gurion Airport, targeting Israeli powerstations, firing missiles into residential areas, assassinating Kadima members who are responsible for the Israeli airforce, arresting Israeli cabinet members, blockading Israeli ports etc...

What would you say if Syria retaliated in that fashion? "Oh well yes we did carry out an act of war against them, we deserve it"? Or would it be the usual righteous indignation that characterises everything Israeli? You would class Syria as an aggressor who is determined to destroy the Israeli state, they would be anti-semites, terrorists etc. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Read the paper before you decide to rewrite history.

Read which paper? The ones written by the usual Zionists who have taken to completely making up stories to support their aggressive mistreatment of muslims? Like the Jew badge fiasco? Or that Ahmadinejad wants Israel wiped off the map? Yeah forgive me if I dont believe a single word they write.

Reuters

At least 29 civilians were killed in other air strikes as Israel battered Lebanon for a fourth straight day.

An Israeli missile incinerated a van near the southern port of Tire, killing 17 people, including eight children, and wounding six, police said. The van was carrying families fleeing the village of Marwaheen after Israeli loudspeaker warnings to leave their homes. Seven of the dead were from a single family.

Israeli aircraft also flattened a nine-storey building where Hizbollah had its main office in Beirut, and attacked roads, bridges and petrol stations in north, east and south Lebanon, killing 12 people and wounding 32, security sources said.

Israel's campaign, launched after Hizbollah captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight on Wednesday, has killed 96 people.

Since the Gaza offensive was launched on June 28, Israel has killed about 85 Palestinians, around half of them civilans.

Because a handful of IDF soldiers got Captured, Israel wages War against so-called "Terrorists" - killing 96 People only in Lebanon in 4 days.

Problem is, that Hamas and Hizb'allah are DEMOCRATICLY elected by the People.

Well ofcourse the Above the Law Zionists with their tentacles in Washington are not seen as Terrorists - they are just "Defending" themselves.

Israel's War For Terrorism
Israeli Terrorism doesn't make News
Israel's Sacred Terrorism

[edit on 15/7/06 by Souljah]

I agree, Souljah. Israel is now a Terrorist Nation. Some may say it has always been a Terrorist Nation.

Originally posted by stumason
It was more than likely a top of the line anti-tank mine. Hezbollah are much better kitted out than you seem to think.

I was thinking more along the lines of three standard anti-tank mines stacked together. That tactic has been used with great effect in IRAQ on M1A1s.

Really such a device will take out any MBT on the planet.

Here are some interesting diaries, written by People living in Lebanon.

Mohammed and his family in Tyre

Muzna Al-Masri writing from Beirut, Live from Lebanon, 15 July 2006


Saturday July 15 — It is not me they should be worrying about, my friends from countries around the world who have been calling since Wednesday; after all I live in one of the safest areas of this country, next to embassies and prime ministers. I have water and electricity and, above all, the Internet. If they are to worry, they are to think of the tens of people I am calling everyday. People in the south of Lebanon who are under the shelling, and isolated from the rest of the country. If I am to share a diary I will not share mine, but that of my friend Mohammed and his family.

There have been forty people in Mohammed’s two bedroom house since Thursday. Along with his wife and his twin boys are his brothers and sisters, their children and their 70-year-old mother. Their village has been attacked and is relatively unsafe.

Letter from Beirut: Return to the Dark Ages

Renee Codsi writing from Beirut, Live from Lebanon, 14 July 2006


July 14th, Evening update — Well the entire Daahiye is debilitated...they have been bombing all day long...the Israeli birds and sea vultures are no longer limited to nocturnal activity. They completely obliterated the roads even more than before south and east...now they are beginning with the north...

The airport building itself was also hit whereas before it was limited to the runways... they fixed the take off runway earlier on Thursday and 5 planes took off loaded with passengers before the Israeli planes hit it again and obliterated the airport building itself.

Fear and loathing in Beirut

Mayssoun Sukarieh writing from Beirut, Live from Lebanon, 14 July 2006


In just a few short hours, a city bubbling with life turned into a ghost town, except from the supermarket, the bakeries and gas station where people lined up to get supplies. Almost everybody I talked to Thursday believed the offensive would be not a matter of days but weeks -- maybe months: “After all, who is going to stop them -- the Arab regimes or the international community?!", asks my neighbor, who just started having pains all over her body from stress and fear. “I am scared; enough is enough!" she said.

I live in a neighborhood that is largely supportive of the 14 March 2006 coalition, i.e., my neighbors tend to be critical of Hezbollah and its relation to Syria. The first reaction here, however, was very supportive of the Hezbollah operation two days ago. I first knew of the Hezb operation from screams of joy arising all around the neighborhood. The pharmacist with whom I have argued many times about Syria and the resistance was happy "The IDF deserves it! Is it right what they are doing to the Palestinians in Gaza? Let them take it! Now three soldiers -- what are they going to do?". Then he said: "God bless us though, what will Israel do now? They won’t allow for such an operation; they will go crazy!”

You might also want to check out this Photostory: Damage after Israeli bombing of southern suburbs on Thursday night.

More Terrorism by Israel:

Israel smashes Hezbollah strongholds

Police said a 106 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in Lebanon in the four-day Israeli offensive. On the Israeli side, at least 15 have been killed, four civilians and 11 soldiers.

Israeli warplanes demolished the last bridge on the main Beirut-Damascus highway — over the Litani River, six miles from the Syrian border — trying to complete their seal on Lebanon. The strike killed three civilians driving on the bridge.

In the afternoon, Israeli forces hit central Beirut, striking the port and a lighthouse on a posh seafront boulevard, where people stroll in the evening or jog in the early mornings. It is a few hundred yards from the campus of the American University of Beirut. The seaport is adjacent to downtown Beirut, a disctrict rebuilt at a cost of billions of dollars after the 1975-1990 civil war.

Originally posted by Souljah
Because a handful of IDF soldiers got Captured, Israel wages War against so-called "Terrorists" - killing 96 People only in Lebanon in 4 days.

When you go into another country and attack a military patrol and then take 2 of the military men back across the border with you, it is kidnapping. It is also an invasion. It is also an act of aggression. The reason the locals are so p.o.'d at Hezbollah is because they all know that none of this would have happened had they stayed on their side of the border and not taken the aggressive stance.

Israel is reacting to an Act of War by Hezbollah.

Originally posted by Souljah
Problem is, that Hamas and Hizb'allah are DEMOCRATICLY elected by the People.

Hezbollah was democratically elected to be a terrorist militia? they hold 23 of the parliment seats. I think there are 125 or so seats. They got elected to those seats, not elected to act on behalf of the Lebanese and instigate a war with Israel.

Originally posted by Souljah
Well ofcourse the Above the Law Zionists with their tentacles in Washington are not seen as Terrorists - they are just "Defending" themselves.

Had the Lebanese gov't had the stones to disband Hezbollah, this never would have happened so, yes, they are defending themselves and trying to force Lebanon to disband this group of thugs.

Crakeur,

Explain to me Please, how come that out of 150 targets attacked by IDF strikes - like gas stations, airports, power plants, bridges, civilans in vans etc - only 12 were Hizb'Allah targets? Isn't that an attack on Lebanon and not Hizb'Allah? Collective punishment for the entire Lebanon Population - since around 120 CIVILANS were already killed in strikes by Israel. How many of them were Hizb'Allah members? How many of them were Innocent? It looks to me more like War with Lebanon then with Hizb'Allah. Yes, apparently Israel has a Big Problem with Hamas and Hizb'Allah and is using all the Dirty Tricks in their Manual to Remove them from Power.

But problem is, that with every Civilian killed Hamas and Hizb'Allah get MORE power.



EDIT BY ADMIN
REMOVED RELIGIOUS SLUR
Please remain on-topic and civil.


[edit on 17-7-2006 by SkepticOverlord]

Originally posted by Souljah
Crakeur,

Explain to me Please, how come that out of 150 targets attacked by IDF strikes - like gas stations, airports, power plants, bridges, civilans in vans etc - only 12 were Hizb'Allah targets? Isn't that an attack on Lebanon and not Hizb'Allah? Collective punishment for the entire Lebanon Population - since around 120 CIVILANS were already killed in strikes by Israel. How many of them were Hizb'Allah members? How many of them were Innocent? It looks to me more like War with Lebanon then with Hizb'Allah. Yes, apparently Israel has a Big Problem with Hamas and Hizb'Allah and is using all the Dirty Tricks in their Manual to Remove them from Power.

But problem is, that with every Civilian killed Hamas and Hizb'Allah get MORE power.

OK let me try to explain it too you (although I am sure you will not accept it or believe it since you would prefer to believe Nasralla).
1- According to international law it is OK to attack infrastructure so long as it is infrastructure used by the enemy to attack.

Hence since roads are used to transport fighters, weapons, rockets, launchers and ammunition it is fair game. Airports can be used to airlift the soldiers to Iran, to airlift supplies from Iran and Syria. destroying bridges cuts off one are from the other and therefore forces the enemy forces from advancing from one location to the other. This effectively boxes in the Hezbullah/Amal/Palestinian warriors to given locations. Since Hezbullah is using this infrastructure to attack civilian location EXCLUSIVELY it is fair game too. Gas stations will hinder progression of the enemy forces since they cannot gas up. Here is a list of targets attacked

I know you prefer to believe that those evil Israelis are targeting little girls with pigtails. Believe what you want. Hezbullah is going to loose - Insh'allah.

[edit on 7-17-2006 by Djarums]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
1- According to international law it is OK to attack infrastructure so long as it is infrastructure used by the enemy to attack.

No that is not entirely correct. It is "OK" to attack infrastructure if it is used by your enemy more than civilians. If there was a target in Lebanon that was used by Hezbollah more than civilians it would be a legitimate and legal target. The TV station that broadcasts Hezbollah programs is an example of a legitimate target. Beirut International Airport, however, is required by civilians more than Hezbollah therefore it is not a legitimate target. The same applies to bridges and power plants.

Those two captured Israeli soldiers perhaps?

The easiest way to get them out of the country back to the Hezbollah taskmasters in Iran would of course be via airlift.

Tough break huh Subz?

So the airport is suddenly a legitimate target.

And a WHOLE LOT of other stuff that has been used to support the LEBANESE war effort against Israel.

All that nonsense coming out from the Lebanese leadership about the conflict coming from Hezbollah is just patently false.

If the leadership wanted to kick Hezbollah out, all they would have to do is go to the UN and just ask for help... And it would happen almost overnight.

The truth is they like this dichotomy and have steadfastly refused to do anything to rid themselves of the terrorist parasite commonly referred to as Hezbollah.

You just have to wonder why so many people whine about civies getting killed, infrastructure geting splattered, etc. etc. All those symptoms of a shooting war.



If the Lebanese really wanted to stop the war they would tell Hezbollah to get out of their country.

If Hezbollah really wanted to stop the war they would return those military types and pack up their stuff and go find something a little more constructive to do with their time.

Since neither of those things are happening... One can only assume they are fine with the status quo.

And no amount of whining is going to muddy the waters enough to cover up the facts... As unfortunate and insane as the situation may be.



[edit on 17-7-2006 by golemina]

Originally posted by Souljah
SNIP!

That about says it all. There's no point debating a topic with someone who is so blinded by the ignorance of hatred that they would actually put this in their post. With a bit of an education you might know that we jews are money and diamond horders, not all jewels.

Edit ; Insult removed.


[edit on 17-7-2006 by intrepid]

Originally posted by Crakeur
That about says it all. There's no point debating a topic with someone who is so blinded by the ignorance of hatred that they would actually put this in their post. With a bit of an education you might know that we jews are money and diamond horders, not all jewels.

I was not refering to you - so calm down your horses, Sir.

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
1- According to international law it is OK to attack infrastructure so long as it is infrastructure used by the enemy to attack.

No that is not entirely correct. It is "OK" to attack infrastructure if it is used by your enemy more than civilians. If there was a target in Lebanon that was used by Hezbollah more than civilians it would be a legitimate and legal target. The TV station that broadcasts Hezbollah programs is an example of a legitimate target. Beirut International Airport, however, is required by civilians more than Hezbollah therefore it is not a legitimate target. The same applies to bridges and power plants.

Lets dive down a bit deeper here.
The lebanese airport would be a prime location to land mujhadin fighters, supplies and weapons - wouldn't it? Wouldn't it be obvious that under such an attack the only thing coming in would be fighters and war material?
Narallah and his elite cohorts would probably have left as well.

So my guess is that the airport was a very good and legitimate target.

Originally posted by Souljah
Crakeur,

Explain to me Please, how come that out of 150 targets attacked by IDF strikes - like gas stations, airports, power plants, bridges, civilans in vans etc - only 12 were Hizb'Allah targets? Isn't that an attack on Lebanon and not Hizb'Allah? Collective punishment for the entire Lebanon Population - since around 120 CIVILANS were already killed in strikes by Israel. How many of them were Hizb'Allah members? How many of them were Innocent? It looks to me more like War with Lebanon then with Hizb'Allah. Yes, apparently Israel has a Big Problem with Hamas and Hizb'Allah and is using all the Dirty Tricks in their Manual to Remove them from Power.

But problem is, that with every Civilian killed Hamas and Hizb'Allah get MORE power.


Jewish Monkeys, not just to stash Jewels anymore...

Civilians getting killed? Hmmmmm. I guess in order to excise this cancer from the body of Lebanon, some healthy flesh will have to be sacrficed. It's really a shame, because had the Lebanese people possessed the intestinal fortitude to do it themselves, all this spilled blood could have been averted.

I would remind you of the words of our own idiot-savant leader...

"Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime".

G.W. Bush - September 2001

The man may be something of a simpleton, but truer words were never spoken on the subject. The Lebanese must now deal with the consequences of their complacency, and I would be willing to bet that the Syrians (and eventually the Iranians) will so begin to re-think the wisdom of their collusion.

Originally posted by Pyros
The man may be something of a simpleton, but truer words were never spoken on the subject. The Lebanese must now deal with the consequences of their complacency, and I would be willing to bet that the Syrians (and eventually the Iranians) will so begin to re-think the wisdom of their collusion.

Ah the Mighty Bush War on Terror speach.

How resourceful.

Too bad you can not see, that Terrorism is not the Weapon of the Weak - like Hizb'Allah or Hamas or Syria or Iran; for these are just small Fishies swimming in the Sea full of Sharks, who really own the Waters and which hold all the cards and pull all the strings. Yep, I am talking about Strong Countries, which CAN use Terrorism in its fullest definition, but somehow, they can also get away with it. If you want a War on Terror to be fought for Real, and not without a Smaller dose of Double Stanards, then this War should start in Washington...

But we will not see that happen.


Terrorism, on the other hand does work, and is the weapon of the strong. It is a very serious analytic error to say, as is commonly done, that terrorism is the weapon of the weak. Like other means of violence, it is primarily a weapon of the strong -- overwhelmingly, in fact. It is held to be a weapon of the weak because the strong also control the doctrinal systems and their terror does not count as terror.

Noam Chomsky