Hezbollah TV Claims 2 Israeli Soldiers Captured

Originally posted by Pyros
Are you trying to say that Israeli air incursions are unjustified, but Hezbollah kidnapping are?

Or, are you trying to say that Israeli military actions are unjustified, but Lebanese one are?

They are either both justified, or they are both unjustified. You cannot have it both ways and be impartial, unless you are a terrorist sympthizer or anti-semite.......

I am saying, that if Israel can do it, without anybody saying a word, why can't the Lebanese do it? What is it about Israel that it is so Holy and Untouchable and Above All of its neighbours, that they can do whatever they want, and nobody raises a hand - but when that same thing happens to them, they start crying and pouting and pointing fingers: "Act of War! Act of War!" - when they do several Acts of War per Week.

If you truly believe that the Hezbollah kidnapping was a "military action", then part of that action would have to be dealing with the probably military repercussions that would occur as a result of the original operation. Thus, if a sovereign state attacks another sovereign state, they must be prepared to suffer the political and military consequences, NO MATTER WHO STARTED IT, because the point is usually moot anyways.

I wonder how many Lebanese were taking prisoners in several Israeli attacks on this territory, and nobody yelled "Act of War! Act of War!" - most of the International Community just stood and watched. But if we go deep into details, this is not a svoerign state attacking another one, since Hizb'Allah does not have a country of its own - they are a so-called Guerrilla army, which means their operations are not protected and considered an action of a soverign state.

There are 3 ways to look at this kidnapping:

1. It was a state-sanctioned military operation.
2. It was an act of state sponsored terrorism
3. It was an act of terrorism that originated from a state where the terrorists are provided with security and resources.

Well the word "Terrorism" is rarely used to describe the actions of the state of Israel. How come that it is terrorism, when a Palestinian suicide bomber blows himself up on a bus - but when Israel drops a quarter-ton bomb on a Residental are, killing several civilans, that is called Counter-Terrorism? Yet again we can not have it one way either here - either both parties condone to Terrorism, or none.

It is obvious to all (being that there are admitted members of Hezbollah in senior positions of the Lebanese government) that one of the above choices is correct. In any event, all three choice implicate the Lebanese government to some degree, and they will be lucky to survive this crisis without incurring major losses.

It is obvious to ALL? Who do "ALL" represent? I strongly dissagree with points, where only one side is labelled as "Terrorists", when Israel enjoy the international diplomatic immunty, protected by all sides by the United States, and whatever they do, that is not called Terrorism - but as usual, Israel is "Defending" itself against terrible-terrorists with all means neccessary. You can not have it one way here either - either ALL sides condone to Terrorism, or NONE.

Stop wasting your breath on trying to place blame, or regurgitating one-sided history, or constantly droning on with anti-zionist rhetoric. It doesn't matter anymore. What matters is who has the power, what they will do with it, and what will be the outcome?

I will waste by Breath however I like thankyouverymuch. I my Humble Opinion the Zionist rhetoric is VERY much imporant in the case of Israel, since Israel is practicly OWNED by the Rothchilds - which means their goverment, the army, the intelligence agencices and all levels of the State are infiltrated by this Global Elite, who desperately need an Anti-Islamic protectorate in the Middle East and they have one. And if you go to the roots of the problem, you can see that it very strongly reflects on the events we observe today.

You have voted Souljah for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

well said
its always humrous how when Israel kills innacent people its just deffence
but a terrorist attack when someone else tries to defend them selves

[edit on 12-7-2006 by bodrul]

Souljah, bodrul,
Quite frankly I am sick of explaining the obvious to people who willfully wish not to understand.

You claim that the world uses a double standard when dealing with Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians yet you use irrelevant examples:
one example to equate between the act of war of Israel and Hizbullah as follows: Israel's violation of Lebanon's airspace by military jets (when no bombing or attacks occured) are equivalent to Lebanon attacking Israeli soldiers on Israeli land. How is that similar??? there is no similarity except to someone who wishes to justify the constant unprovoked aggressions of Hezbullah on Israel.
The second example was the Israeli use of a quarter ton bomb on a residential area as equivalent to that of a suicide bomber. A bit more challanging to explain - but I enjoy challanges - When a suicude bomber bombs a residential area he does so after being trained, equiped and transferred by an infrastructure of people under state sponsorship to solely KILL CIVILIANS. When Israel bombs a 'residential' area it was to liquidate an enemy asset named Salah Shehadeh. This individual was a heavyweight in the Hamas arena with more blood on his hands than anyone else. Israel has previously postponed 8 liquidation attempt in order to avoid a high collateral damage. Duringthe time of the liquidation Salah Shehadeh was in the midst of planning a mega terror attack and Israel responded.
The liquidation cost 16 other lives true - The liquidation raised a ruccous in Israel and there where long debates on the issue of the attack.
Lets recap
- Airspace violations are not equivalent to killing soldiers, injuring civilians and kidnapping soldiers - I think thats obvious.
- less obvious - do you think that the willfull targeting civilians is equivalent to the liquidation of a heavyweight terrorist when the attack was postponed 8 times out of concern for civilian casualties?? Moreover - why should such a 'hero' hide among innocent civilians?

You have voted Souljah for a WATS

Great post Souljah, full of truth!

Are air space violations seriously on the same level as kidnapping 2 and killing 7 soldiers?

I must have my priorities mixed up.

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Are air space violations seriously on the same level as kidnapping 2 and killing 7 soldiers?

I must have my priorities mixed up.

is killing over 24 cuvilians in a day to get a solider free justified?
israel kill hundreds of cuvilians a year compared to a fraction of what any militant do to israel.

screw air space violations israel do far worse

If the Palestinians were in their own country on their own land Israel wouldn't be on Lebanese soil and should have no need to be on Lebanese soil. The Palestinian right of return should be initiated. These people need to be in their own country and not living in slums of other countries. Its not the responsibility of Lebanon Syria or Jordan to take care of a people who are entitled to be in their own country.

A country that routinely assasinates people, crosses borders at will, infiltrates neighboring countries at will, kidnaps its own citizens from foreign nations for whistleblowing ,disregards UN requests over the course of decades, gets no sympathy from me. The founders of Israel knew well in advance when they first lied about their intentions in the Arab region that they would incur resistance. Blame it on the forefathers of Israel.

Wow great twist on the air space violations guys.

Israel actually fly there planes very close to the ground and deliberatly break the sound barrier above residential areas to blow the windows out of people houses. Please read up on this. They cause massive property damage to lebonese property by flying near peoples houses and then breaking the sound barrier causing sonic booms damaging property. So it's not as innocent as you guys are making it out to be.



Israel Stages Biggest Air Incursion into Lebanon
Hezbollah fires at Israeli aircraft
www.aljazeera.com...
www.spacewar.com...
www.arabicnews.com...
www.spacewar.com...
www.arabicnews.com...


Israel has been deliberatly breaking the sound barrier regularly over lebanon since 2001 and it goes in low to medium hight and breaks it to damage people and terrorise them. Please stop making excuses for Israel's criminal thuggery.

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Are air space violations seriously on the same level as kidnapping 2 and killing 7 soldiers?

I must have my priorities mixed up.

is killing over 24 cuvilians in a day to get a solider free justified?
israel kill hundreds of cuvilians a year compared to a fraction of what any militant do to israel.

screw air space violations israel do far worse

Because you guys continue to f'ck with Israel, pardon my french. Seriously. Israel is like the biggest and baddest guy on the block, yet all the little kids think its fun to keep kicking down his mailbox. When he finally gets fed up, they all run around screaming about the "Zionist Infidel Crusader Who Whould Burn in Hell for All Eternity"™

I understand its a deep issue, but violence only begets more violence. Israel was just chillin' and Hamas thought it would be fun to kidnap a soldier. Oops. Straw that broke the camels back.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Cutwolf]

Originally posted by Cutwolf



Because you guys continue to f'ck with Israel, pardon my french. Seriously. Israel is like the biggest and baddest guy on the block, yet all the little kids think its fun to keep kicking down his mailbox. When he finally gets fed up, they all run around screaming about the "Zionist Infidel Crusader Who Whould Burn in Hell for All Eternity"™


[edit on 12-7-2006 by Cutwolf]

i appoligise first i couldnt resist laughing when i read this,
israel not only are the biggest and baddest boys on the block they are the bullies in the middle east.

they use any axcuse to strike out at their neigbours and mostly palistian areas read the replies above you collective punsishment.

they think they can get away with murder oh forgot they can

the little kids kicking down their mail boxes what **** is that?
israel is occupied land and expects the palistains to except it, they control the boarders heck they stop trade reg so much they have made pals reliant on forign aid which it to stops when it closes the boarders,

and whats with the you guys?
or should i generalise you with all atrocities you goverment/people does?

ps if you want to quote just quote my reply not urs aswell

edit:

if you cared to look into it israel never did chill out it still targeted palistainas ares even when palistians did jack all.
israel broke the ceasfire (next time do some research)

[edit on 12-7-2006 by bodrul]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Souljah, bodrul,
Quite frankly I am sick of explaining the obvious to people who willfully wish not to understand.

Well if you are Sick, I think you should go and see a Doctor.

You claim that the world uses a double standard when dealing with Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians yet you use irrelevant examples:
one example to equate between the act of war of Israel and Hizbullah as follows: Israel's violation of Lebanon's airspace by military jets (when no bombing or attacks occured) are equivalent to Lebanon attacking Israeli soldiers on Israeli land. How is that similar??? there is no similarity except to someone who wishes to justify the constant unprovoked aggressions of Hezbullah on Israel.

Apparently you have no clue about what Laws a soverign country must bow to. If you fly a military airplane in an airspace of a soverign country, that is considered an act of war - since the intention of this military airplane is not known or announced to the targte soverign country, they do not know what the military plane will do; therefore that airplane is violating the airspace and the soverignety of the country, therefore it is breaking the territorial integrity of Lebanon. But for you ofcourse, an act of war would be, if Israeli jets dropped bombs (probably killing lots of civilans in process), but I guess that is just what Israel always was allowed to do, since no international law basicly applies to Israel. What if Lebanon flew their military jets over Jerusalem? What would happen? I bet you would stand up and yell "ACT OF WAR! ACT OF WAR!", correct?

The second example was the Israeli use of a quarter ton bomb on a residential area as equivalent to that of a suicide bomber. A bit more challanging to explain - but I enjoy challanges - When a suicude bomber bombs a residential area he does so after being trained, equiped and transferred by an infrastructure of people under state sponsorship to solely KILL CIVILIANS. When Israel bombs a 'residential' area it was to liquidate an enemy asset named Salah Shehadeh. This individual was a heavyweight in the Hamas arena with more blood on his hands than anyone else. Israel has previously postponed 8 liquidation attempt in order to avoid a high collateral damage. Duringthe time of the liquidation Salah Shehadeh was in the midst of planning a mega terror attack and Israel responded.
The liquidation cost 16 other lives true - The liquidation raised a ruccous in Israel and there where long debates on the issue of the attack.

So let me get this straght: firing 5000 artillery shells in to a DENSLY populated area is kind "NOT" Terrorism? Gunship helicopters "Liqudating" a high ranking Hamas "enemy" in a DENSLY populated area is also "NOT" Terrorism? Dropping a quarter-ton bomb in a DENSLY populated are is also "NOT" considered an act of Terrorism? Well basicly whatever Israel does is NOT Terrorism for you - that was just "Defending" itself from the terrible-terrorists, correct? Defending itself with Tanks, Artillery, Attack Gunships, Military Airplanes from what threat? Militants with AK's? How exactly is that equal? So when IDF shoots a Kid somewhere in Gaza Strip of West Bank, that is still NOT Terrorism? Remember These Children? According to the Associated Press, 115 unarmed Palestinians under 18 years of age were killed in 2002 — an increase of more than 50 percent from the year before. None of these UNARMED, UNDERAGED Children presented a threat to IDF and they know that - so that means they were shot in Cold Blood. That is STILL Not Terrorism? So what IS Terrorism?

So how exactly can you defend a 39-year old ILLEGAL Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which breaks several international laws, U.N. resolutions, and the Geneva Conventions? So explain to me, how can Israel play the role of the "Poor Victim" and the Occupying Army at the same time?

[edit on 12/7/06 by Souljah]

Israel is living in occupied land, huh?

I guess America should give America back to the Native Americans, huh?

Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. What ever happened to "love thy neighbor?"

You don't love you're neighbor when he comes destroy you're house and say Get out of here, it's my place now. And then you go 1 km away from him, and even there, he bombs you.

How kind.

And people like you always use the same argument, if Israël should be dismantled, americans should leave america as well...



[edit on 12-7-2006 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Israel is living in occupied land, huh?

Let me Enlighten you, O'Wise-ONE!

Israel Is Illegally Occupying Palestine

Under UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The United Nation's General Assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of the territories as illegal (see UN resolutions 338, 1397, and 1402, among others). Israel's continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by the US, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.

Anything Clear?

No?

ISRAEL'S ILLEGAL OCCUPATION

International law is very clear on two basic principles: the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the prohibition of the transfer of civilians of the occupying Power to the occupied territory. Both are intended to prevent expansionism and the colonisation of occupied territories. Both complement another explicit principle of international law, namely the right of peoples to self-determination, a right that a colonial or occupying Power is obliged to respect.

Thus, what makes the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land illegal is not the fact that it occurred during the war of 1967 (regardless of the narrative concerning the causes of the war). What makes the Israeli occupation illegal is that it has existed for 35 years, during which time it transformed into a form of colonialism and suppressed and oppressed an entire people for decades, preventing them from the exercise of their right to self-determination and the establishment of their State, Palestine.

Israel, as an occupying Power, has undertaken countless measures attempting to change the legal status, demographic composition and character of the territory by confiscating land, exploiting natural resources, building more than 250 settlements, transferring more than 400,000 Israelis to the occupied territories, establishing a dual system of law and even annexing part of the territory.

These actions have been carried out in direct contravention of the Fourt Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, which, among other things, defines the rules of conduct and the obligations of the occupying Power. Clearly then, the active intent of the Israeli occupation has been to negate Palestinian rights, to create new facts on the ground and to illegally expand Israel's borders.

You Understand?

I guess America should give America back to the Native Americans, huh?

That would be Nice yes.

Too bad there are not very many of them left.

Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. What ever happened to "love thy neighbor?"

You will "Love Thy Neighbour" even when he bulldozes your Home?

[edit on 12/7/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by proprog

Originally posted by stumason
Israel has now entered Lebanon

So it's official now. 12/7 official start day of WWIII.

No, 9/11/2001 was the Start of WW III. This is just part thereof the growing responses to Terrorism.

I pity those in Lebanon.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Cutwolf


Because you guys continue to f'ck with Israel, pardon my french. Seriously. Israel is like the biggest and baddest guy on the block, yet all the little kids think its fun to keep kicking down his mailbox. When he finally gets fed up, they all run around screaming about the "Zionist Infidel Crusader Who Whould Burn in Hell for All Eternity"™

You have voted Cutwolf for the Way Above Top Secret award.

The Israel/Palistine issue would be damn funny, if it wasn't for the fact that people are dying as a result.

Originally posted by stumason
I also wasn't referring to Israeli Terrorists, i was referring the the rabidly right-wing Israeli Government..

Hello Stu.

I look at this comment you made with a smile on my face.

2 Months ago, or so, Israel elected the best Prime Minister and had a chance at actually working on peace. It was in Olmerts plans. Further Lands for Peace.

In less than two months, these Terrorist have destroyed all hope for that now.

Gaza and now Lebanon. What the hell are these people thinking?

Oh yeah, I nearly forgot.

Death to the infidels, and Israel pushed into the Sea.

All the same we take our chances
Laughed at by time
Tricked by circumstances
Plus ca change
Plus c'est la meme chose
The more that things change
The more they stay the same
(Circumstances by Rush from their album: "Hemispheres")

Ciao

Shane

To what extent is violence and aggression is justified? I pity all the nations in the middle east. They will never knew the meaning of lasting peace as long as poeple on both sides commit acts of violence, brutality, murder, and sensless rhetoric provoking terrorism or unjustified military agression. If any unprovoked act of violence is justified then perhaps we should justified all forms of unprovoked violence, such as artillery or mortar shelling of innocent civilians, suicide bombings of innocent civilians, or kidnapping and torture of soldiers or captured militants. Hate will breed violence. Violence will breed more violence. And more violence shed more blood. And more blood shed will breed grief and suffering for both the Israelis and the surrounding nations.

Originally posted by Shane

Death to the infidels, and Israel pushed into the Sea.

Shane
Just because its not a spoken phrase by the Israelis, I am of the opinion that actions speak louder then words. The palistinians have been pushed not only into the sea but into the wind. If seperating a man from his family, razing his house to the ground, putting her children in jail, banning his relatives from visiting the dead or dying, sending their children to the hospital, burning their cars, placing walls between farmers and their lands and keeping food and supplies from getting to you for weeks at a time is a show of love, then I'd hate to see what would happen if they actually had the guts to come out and say they'd like to push them out.

The majority of israelis and their supporters feel that other countries should bear the responsibility of taking the palestinians in and giving them a home merely because they are arabs. They have a homeland and thats where they should be.
They are not Jordanian, They are not Syrian, not Lebanese or Egyptian. They are Palestinian. They belong in what should bePalestine.

Originally posted by Cutwolf
Israel is living in occupied land, huh?

I guess America should give America back to the Native Americans, huh?

Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. What ever happened to "love thy neighbor?"

Its funny you should use that example about Native Americans. It's this precise thing that Israel is doing now.

They claim they are entitled it by God and lived there 2000 years ago.

Now, if the Jews can claim land from 2000 years ago, why can't the Native Americans claim the USA, which was taken less than 200 years ago?

See the dilema?