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911research.wtc7.net...
Each event was horrific and killed hundreds of people. But only the third event violated engineering experience and required the invention of new theories to explain. Yet the Report looks only at the first two events -- the subject of hundreds of pages -- while showing no interest in the third. These are curious priorities for an investigation that purports to explain the three largest and least expected failures of engineered steel structures in world history: the total collapses of WTC 1, 2, and 7.
Keeping the reader in the dark about the history of steel-framed high-rise buildings is essential to passing off the notion that partial collapse automatically leads to total collapse.
In our cities, there has been no experience with a disaster of such magnitude, nor has there been any in which the total collapse of a high-rise building occurred so rapidly and with little warning.
The Report's implication that fire protection is essential is highly misleading, given that no steel-framed high-rise building has ever collapsed from fires, whether the steelwork was fire protected or not.
The Report repeatedly makes claims that amazingly high fire temperatures were extant in the Towers, without any evidence. The Report itself contains evidence contradicting the claims.
NIST calibrated its computer model of heat transfer to the steel structure using thermally isolated pieces of steel. NIST does not appear to have taken into account the role of heat conduction within the steel structure in lowering the temperatures of the fire-exposed steel.
NIST fails to consider an alternative explanation for the bowed appearance of columns in its selected photographs of the Twin Towers: light refraction caused by the layer of hot air adjacent to the Towers.
Why are there no calculations of the approximate amount of energy?
No column failure theory excluding demolition can account for the top suddenly starting to fall freely.
Omissions and Distortions is the subtitle of David Ray Griffin's book critiquing the 9/11 Commission Report.
The Report does not contain footnotes. It is filled with claims, the basis for which the reader can only guess. It leaves the public with no way to compare its conclusions with the evidence on which it was purportedly based.
What are the chances that a phenomenon other than controlled demolition would exhibit all six features never observed elsewhere except in controlled demolitions?
The Report's implication that fire protection is essential is highly misleading, given that no steel-framed high-rise building has ever collapsed from fires, whether the steelwork was fire protected or not.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
NIST fails to consider an alternative explanation for the bowed appearance of columns in its selected photographs of the Twin Towers: light refraction caused by the layer of hot air adjacent to the Towers.
No, they just knew that that particular alternative explanation was nonsense.
Who ever came up with the light refraction theory has no f'n idea how optical phenomena like refraction actually works.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
First off, they don't back up any of their points. Like most CT sites they attempt to pass off their opinions as foregone conclusions.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
One of the major things that sets off my BS detector is the complete lack of references and sources in this essay.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
Frankly without sources or any real evidence presented there's not much to debunk. Especially considering that this is mostly stuff that has been covered extensively on ATS.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
I wasn't aware that op/ed counted as evidence that somehow needs to be refuted.
911research.wtc7.net...
Each event was horrific and killed hundreds of people. But only the third event violated engineering experience and required the invention of new theories to explain. Yet the Report looks only at the first two events -- the subject of hundreds of pages -- while showing no interest in the third. These are curious priorities for an investigation that purports to explain the three largest and least expected failures of engineered steel structures in world history: the total collapses of WTC 1, 2, and 7.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
Secondly why would NIST need to model every puff of air and peice of debris to recreate the collapse, when they adequately explained how the collapse was initiated.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
They and hundreds of other experts did not have a problem with the way the building collapsed. Since no hard evidence exists that points towards demolition it would have been a waste of time for them to investigate it. Notice that no one is crying foul that they didn't investigate the "magical collapse theory" nor did they look into the "leprechauns did it" hypothesis. Without anything to support these things, they had no real reason to do so.
For each Tower, NIST created two cases. The first set of cases, North Tower case A and South Tower case C, were based on the averages of NIST's estimates of building and plane strength, impact trajectories and speeds, etc. The second set of cases, North Tower case B and South Tower case D, assumed conditions more favorable to the failure of the buildings. The enhancements adopted for Cases B and D over cases A and C are described in the following table:
North Tower South Tower
increase in impact speed 29 mph 28 mph
decrease in approach angles 3º 1º
increase in aircraft weight 5% 5%
increase in aircraft strength 25% 15%
decrease in Tower strength 20% 15%
decrease in Tower live load 20% 20%
increase in Tower fuel load 25% 25%
The Report noted that cases A and C did not produce results matching observations, so cases B and D were selected for use in its four-step modeling.
Originally posted by LeftBehind
I can't wait for thichheaded to actually contribute to this thread instead of baiting people.
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Agreed.
Who ever came up with the light refraction theory has no f'n idea how optical phenomena like refraction actually works.
Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Actually, they do back up many of their ponits. You are attempting to derail this by simply demanding mainstream data and evidence that IS NOT AVAILABE
NEEDS TO BE? WHO SAID NEEDS? i JUST ASKED ONE OF OUR LOCAL 'DEBUNKERS' TO REFUTE THE OBSERVATIONS. READ THE FIRST POST All I/they want is for their points regarding the errors, tweaked models and omissions to be answered to. By ANYONE but more pointedly the NIST.
Clinging to a weak argument. I believe you know they are referring to the "low probability of occurence" theories regarding the collapse of WTC7. Sorry, they did not drag out a quote you have already seen a HUNDRED times.
There was PLENTY of evidence to suggest the "zipper truss" and "pancke theories" were weak and that the most SIMPLE other avenue to look at would have been CD.
You are attempting to derail this by simply demanding mainstream data and evidence that IS NOT AVAILABE.
We will address the rest of the points ONE BY ONE later in the thread if people want to SUPPORT the NISTs claims instead of just calling the authors out for not writing a bibliography.
Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Originally posted by HowardRoark
Agreed.
Who ever came up with the light refraction theory has no f'n idea how optical phenomena like refraction actually works.
BUT, as with EVERY other topic HOWARDROARK DOES know how light refraction actually works... AMAZING!
We all know NOTHING and MUST defer to Howard.
Originally posted by yeah right
dont have the time for specifics n linnks right now but,,,,
when was the EMPIRE STATE BUILDING built????? 1920's ??
how much bigger, stronger , better built was wtc ???? built in the 1970's ???
i remember reading, hearing, seeing that::
#1 the empipre state building was HIT BY AN AIRPLANE
the picture showed the plane STUCK in the side of the building
#2 EVERY CONTROLLED DEMOLITION i EVER SAW
on tv.. even the 1+ hour specials. ALL had the buildings fall the same (DROP)
JUST LIKE WTC !!! ( the WHOLE THING .......ALL AT ONCE )
#3 every building with the top HALF damaged ONLY PARTIALLY FELL
( THE FEW FLOORS THAT WERE DAMAGED )
and SEVERELY LEANED one way or the other
#4 the 1994?? W.T.C. garage TRUCK BOMBING DIDNT TAKE IT OUT
and that was directly at the MAJOR SUPPORTS
#5 and MOST IMPORTANT.......
I am NOT a T.V. person,, much less watch the NEWS.......
WHAT MADE ME TURN IT ON THAT MORNING, (sept 11) and watch CNN LIVE
and see BOTH AIRPLANES STRIKE,,.... LIVE ????????
( and with a GOOD VIEW TOO )
that has been PUZZLING ME EVER SINCE !! ?
any help on THAT would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!