Questions for John Lear

John-

Whilst on the topic of Phil Schneider. Who do believe to be more delusional, Phil Schneider of Bill Cooper? Obviously they were both aware of the Dulce papers and this how their stories were propogated. Do you believe that there is any truth to Dulce? If not, do you believe there are any joint US/Alien bases on Earth, or "off rock"?

Respectfully,

Take

HELLO JOHN

I have to ask you, Do you ever sleep??I read on different threads in different time zones and you are there, hum? Well anyway my question is do you still believe that we should keep investigating Rosswell? I ask you this because on another thread posted by our friend ITF he is enquiering with members which haven't answered up to this moment about Rosswells validaty up to this moment. If so that means that I would have to cease investigating history in it's many facets inside it's intrinsic values. This would include any other type of investigation be it political, religious, economic or sociological.
I ask you this because of your openmindeness in these type of topics.
I think he is going to have a long wait!!

Originally posted by johnlear
I forget, did we ever see them pound a nail with that 'hammer'.

I heard it came from a body shop on the moon, or was even perhaps used to repair the roof of the "parking garage" that's there.

Seriously though, of course the weight of the hammer doesn't matter one bit, on the moon or on earth, the only reason they fall at the same rate on the moon, is no AIR resistance. Hence no air. Hence no breathable atmosphere.

Sorry.

But you can feel better, you learned something today!

To John Lear,

Thank-you for your response. I really appreciate it. I didn't realize there were 100 different species of aliens. I was thinking more like 10-20. I viewed Phil's VSH video lecture tape fairly soon, after it was released in 1995. I have to say it it really got to the heart of me. He looked so sickly, pale and a broken man. I had a gut feeling this would be his last message and I felt so sorry for him. He showed a close up of his bare chest. I've never seen any injury like that before! I don't believe Phil would have used a hollywood type make-up for this. It was probably a major task for him just getting dressed. He seemed so sincere and didn't have anything to lose, because according to him he was dying anyways. It makes sense that the Aliens could read minds. Our UFO's/Star-like lights encounters lead us to that conclusion too. 'If' they did shoot him in the chest with a nasty dose of cobalt radiation in 79 it would seem like he would have died at that time, like you said.

I think Phil really thought he was involved in a fire fight with the aliens at Dulce. He seemed convincing enough, but that was supposed to have happened in 79 and the tape was made in 95. He claims he was given injections which made his condition worse. Could that have erased some real memories and given him false memories? He was found 5 days, after his death in 96. Some suspect it was murder because of what he knew. Phil had already made the tape and transcripts were on the internet, in other words he already spilled his guts. Why would somebody feel the need to eliminate him when the harm was already done?
I know you met with him personally did he show you his chest? If you did see his chest then what do you think happened to him?
You've probably answered these questions a million times, if so can you refer me to them? Thanks for any answers and if you don't wish to answer
then that's ok too.

Originally posted by johnlear
I forget, did we ever see them pound a nail with that 'hammer'.

Caught me off guard with that answer John

I was fully expecting a lead feather hypothesis, not an inflatable hammer

Originally posted by takeastepback

John-

Whilst on the topic of Phil Schneider. Who do believe to be more delusional, Phil Schneider of Bill Cooper? Obviously they were both aware of the Dulce papers and this how their stories were propogated. Do you believe that there is any truth to Dulce? If not, do you believe there are any joint US/Alien bases on Earth, or "off rock"?

Thanks for the post Take. Both had lots of valid and true information. But for whatever reason they both chose to embellish on it.

I wrote the original "Dulce papers" and you can read the history on several threads here on ATS. Dulce is real and it is currently operational. It is a joint U.S. Military/Alien base and most of the stories you hear about it are true and probably worse.

There are several other joint U.S./Alien bases on the planet and probably some 'off rock'.

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by angelc01

I have to ask you, Do you ever sleep??I read on different threads in different time zones and you are there, hum?

Thanks for the post angelc01. At my age sleep comes in fits and starts.

Well anyway my question is do you still believe that we should keep investigating Rosswell? I ask you this because on another thread posted by our friend ITF he is enquiering with members which haven't answered up to this moment about Rosswells validaty up to this moment. If so that means that I would have to cease investigating history in it's many facets inside it's intrinsic values. This would include any other type of investigation be it political, religious, economic or sociological.
I ask you this because of your openmindeness in these type of topics.
I think he is going to have a long wait!!

We don't have to keep investigating Roswell. If you want to know what happened, or at least what I think happened after the crash read, "In League With A UFO." I forget the authors name. This will be the most fascinating book you ever read about Roswell.

There are so many other new and fabulously interesting things you could be researching other than Roswell.

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by johnlear

We don't have to keep investigating Roswell. If you want to know what happened, or at least what I think happened after the crash read, "In League With A UFO." I forget the authors name. This will be the most fascinating book you ever read about Roswell.

There are so many other new and fabulously interesting things you could be researching other than Roswell.

This fits hand-in-glove with my thesis that the main reason you are here, John, is to divert attention away from the more meritorious cases in UFOlogy to those utterly without any factual support whatsoever. OK, we've got Roswell. Piles of evidence that something screwy's going on there. The Ramey memo, Haut's last testament, the radiation found at the crash site. And yet, the only thing you can come up with on that is to offer some obscure book by some crank going under a pseudonym that no one's ever heard of and a general belitting of the importance of this case. You would, however, have us focus on things such as Dulce and the Venusians which have no hard empirical support.

It's almost as if you WANT to get caught at your own game.

John Lear wrote,

Thanks for the post Take. Both had lots of valid and true information. But for whatever reason they both chose to embellish on it.

Gotcha, I'll check out your Dulce reports. Thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear
Dulce is real and it is currently operational. It is a joint U.S. Military/Alien base and most of the stories you hear about it are true and probably worse.

I would tend to agree with this statement. Even if Dulce was discovered by the general public, the government could always cover it's ass by saying that the entities experimented on have no "human rights" or constitutional rights. I bet these labs make FEMA camps look like a weekend in the Hamptons. It's all very ironic too, because of all this opposition toward stem cell research.

Also John, another characted in this Dulce fiasco was Thomas Castillo, he is the one who supposedly sneaked out the video of the dulce labs and some pictures. Do you beleive that Castillo was legit?

ATSer,

Take

reply to post by johnlear
Thanks John I will check out that book and also will move on to other topics like you suggest, but I will keep an eye out just in case.

mabe we'll meet sometime in our mutual remote viewing

Originally posted by takeastepback

Also John, another characted in this Dulce fiasco was Thomas Castillo, he is the one who supposedly sneaked out the video of the dulce labs and some pictures. Do you beleive that Castillo was legit? ATSer,

Take

Thanks for the post Take.Here is a recap of the Dulce story as I remember it:

I was the originator of the so-called Dulce papers.

The story starts in Crestone Colorado where a group of UFO researchers met to discuss the issues of the UFO field. I believe the date was in September of 1987. Someone had donated a condo with several rooms where we all stayed for about 3 days.

Attending were Linda Moulton Howe, Tom Adams, maybe Chris Lambright and a few others whose names I have forgotten.

Tom Adams put out a little newspaper from his home in Texas called Stigmata and it covered mostly cattle mutilations.

Tom handed me a letter he was received from a person is Las Vegas who I shall refer to as MR. X. The letter told about an intriguing facility north of Los Alamos in a little town called Dulce. It told about a joint US/alien facility that was built deep underground that had “tiled hallways that went on forever.”

Tom told me he didn’t have time to respond to this letter and since I lived in Las Vegas would I check it out. I agreed and he gave me the letter. I thought I still had that letter but it is not in the Dulce file that I am working with tonight.

When I got back to Vegas a week or so later I called MR. X and arranged a meeting. Mr. X told me about a security guard who was a close friend of his who worked at an underground facility called Dulce and due to many unspeakable things that he has witnessed escaped with 25 black and white photos, a 6 minutes security video tape of one of the hallways and several hundred papers of a technical nature that were going on in the facility.

Mr. X told me that Thomas Costello, the security guard, had told him an incident that occurred in 1979 where 44 scientists had been killed along with 22 Delta Force personnel.

This is what has become know as the ‘Dulce Wars’ but it wasn’t a war. According to Costello and later backed up by Bob Lazar who read about the incident in a briefing at S-4, a Gray alien being was giving instruction of some type to 44 scientists at Dulce.

Apparently a security guard with Delta Force, who helped patrol and provide security for the Dulce base, entered the room with a side arm of some type. It was known by all Dulce personnel that no firearms of any kind where allowed anywhere near the Grays. Whatever the reason for the security guards mistake, the Gray immediately killed him and the 44 scientists. Seeing the disaster taking place on the security cameras, other Delta Force personnel came for revenge but the alien killed them also.

I met many times with Mr. X discussing Dulce and some weird things happened that made me think that someone was monitoring these meetings.

During one of the meetings Mr. X told me that Costello had given him one of 5 or 6 sets of the ‘papers’ which included the photos, the video tape and the technical date.

After verifying that the photos, papers and video tape where in the container, the container was sealed in a water proof box which was then itself sealed with some type of plastic covering. Costello told Mr. X at the time of the transfer that his wife and children had disappeared and that he was on the run. Costello told Mr. X to bury the box in a safe location and that he would contact him every 4 to 6 months. If he should miss two contacts in a row it meant that he was dead or that he had been taken back to Dulce.

Dulce employed special ‘bounty hunters’ for just this type of incident.

Mr. X buried the box in Dolan Springs, Arizona, about an hours drive south of Las Vegas high up in the mountains. Mr. X and I drove to Dolan Springs once were he pointed out the approximate location of the buried box.

Several years went by and Mr. X told 2 other persons about the box and its location.

Sometime in the middle 1990’s I forget exactly when, Thomas Costello had missed two consecutive contacts and it was over a year since MR. X had heard from him. He waited another 6 months and then began a search to recover the box.

I never went on the search but 2 friends of mine did. They made 4 or 5 (maybe more) expeditions to where Mr. X had remembered hiding the box but never found it. A great deal of effort went into the search but no trace of the box was ever found.

During one of our Meetings Mr. X produced 8 pencil drawings and one had written page (in pencil) of data. The 8 pencil drawings were views from the 25 photographs that Costello had taken from Dulce. The hand written page was information that Costello had given him. He asked if I would copy and distribute the information. I agreed.

I believe that the date I distributed the Dulce papers was in 1988 sometime. I think around March.

Since the pencil drawings were too faint to duplicate I copied them in black ink. I then typed up a one page letter. The first paragraph is the circumstances under which I received the Dulce papers. The second paragraph contains what is written in pencil regarding what Mr. X knew from Costello and the information Costello had given him.

The typewriter I used was unique as it was an IBM Executive with proportional spacing. I bought it in 1966 when I worked for the Flying Tiger Line and was President of their wholly owned subsidiary Airjet Charters and always used it. I mention this only because it proves that I wrote and distributed the original Dulce Papers.

I took the 8 pages of black ink drawings and one typewritten page and sent copies to several of my friends.

The ‘Dulce’ papers interested many and were copied and recopied and over the years the story has been told and retold with many errors creeping into the retelling.

You may see many video tapes of the interior of Dulce but I can assure you they are all fabricated. Some came from a Japanese production on Dulce, some came from other places. But no video tape has ever gotten out of Dulce period.

Over the years I have obtained at least 2 confirmations that the Dulce base exists.

When Bob Lazar was briefed about the incident at S-4 the document he was reading said the incident happened at Area 51, not Dulce. I have no explanation for the discrepancy except possibly Lazar’s clearance had maybe not reached the level where he could know about Dulce. But that is speculation.

The other person who confirmed Dulce was a government insider, the only true government insider I ever met who told me that Dulce was real, he had been there but that he knew is as Section D.

I have had one or two other confirmations but I can’t remember who told me or when.

Of course, all of this sounds like a science fiction story but I am telling you the story exactly as it happened. I may have made a few errors in recalling the exact details because it’s been 20 years since it happened.

Many say I am the product of disinformation. That may be true. But if it is disinformation someone went to an awful lot of trouble and led me on a long and windy path. They would have had to continue this disinformation for 10 years or more. And I agree that that is indeed possible.

But for my part, I don’t believe it was disinformation. I believe the Dulce facility is real and stories come my way every once in a while to confirm its existence.

The only other person to relate correctly the Dulce story is Branton (see the Branton Files). If you find a discrepancy between my story and his I will be happy to review it and give you my opinion.

There are 3 other persons (other than Branton) who are intimately familiar with the Dulce story and I am deliberately leaving their names out of this post. You know who you are and if you want to identify yourselves or if I can reveal your names you know my email. Both know way, way, way more than I do about Dulce.

Below I have posted the 8 original pencil drawings that Mr. X gave to me which he drew from the original photographs that Costello gave to him.

Below that I will post the exact duplicates of the one typewritten page that I made and the 8 pen and black ink drawings that I traced from the original drawings.

It is awfully strange that the aliens are using obsolete security cameras based (as seen in the sketch) on vacuum tubes. We on Earth mastered the CCD technology a long time ago, and even have camera-phones. All of this tech is availble at Wallmart. Sheesh.

Same applies to lovingly rounded corners of "TV screens" typical of obsolete CRT tubes. I guess whoever fabricated this must be a relatively old man who was in his prime in early 1970s.

My display does not have rounded corners, it's a normal flat screen, thank God.

[edit on 9-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by buddhasystem

It is awfully strange that the aliens are using obsolete security cameras based (as seen in the sketch) on vacuum tubes. We on Earth mastered the CCD technology a long time ago, and even have camera-phones. All of this tech is availble at Wallmart. Sheesh.

'We' built this facility in the late 60's. Not the aliens.

'We' don't get to go to the facilities the aliens built.

Thanks for your input BS, it is truly appreciated.

John-

Thanks for your efforts here. I know it is a burden to retell all this information, but you are doing great works. Keep it up!!

Your friend,

Take

edit* please if anyone can post the Castillo photos anonymously please do so!!

[edit on 10-11-2007 by takeastepback]

Mr. Lear,

Your opinion please. Following the link below, do you think this is mere coincidence or was Leonardo da Vinci intentionally attempting to hide a symbol of the Masonic compass and square within his drawing "Vitruvian Man?"

www.n2davinciandbeyond.com...

Originally posted by lajansann

Mr. Lear,

Your opinion please. Following the link below, do you think this is mere coincidence or was Leonardo da Vinci intentionally attempting to hide a symbol of the Masonic compass and square within his drawing "Vitruvian Man?"

Thanks for the post lajansann.

In the book “Dark Mission” (Copyright 2007 Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara) Ken Johnston point out:

..a recent book by two Masonic scholars (Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas) has concluded that virtually all of the Masonic rituals were derived from the story of Isis and Osiris.

Their book “The Hiram Key” showed that contrary to Masonry’s own lore, the Craft was not founded in London in 1717, but in fact traced its roots all the way back to ancient Egypt. They followed a trail back through time, to the Templars, to Jesus and the Temple of Jerulsalem, then on to the builder of the first Temple of Soloman, Hiram Abiff.

As Leonardo da Vinci as born on 15 April 1452, and if the Masonic Compass and square are within the drawing of “Vitruvian Man” then it seems possible that da Vinci would have been a member.

Thanks for the information.

reply to post by johnlear


John, did you ever try looking to see if any of the 44 scientists that were killed at Dulce ever showed up in obituaries around the world in 1979. I can understand the 22 Delta Force members would never be accounted for but I do believe some where family members of the scientists were told their loved ones either disappeared or were killed in some kind of accident. Do you have any more info about the 44 killed scientists by the alien being.

I am assuming these scientists were from all corners of the Earth. Many family members of the 44 scientists should still be alive unless they were all killed in freak accidents or some disease. Rik Riley



[edit on 11-11-2007 by rikriley]

Originally posted by rikriley

John, did you ever try looking to see if any of the 44 scientists that were killed ever showed up in obituaries around the world in 1979. I can understand the 22 Delta Force members would never be accounted for but I do believe some where family members of the scientists were told their loved ones either disappeared or were killed in some kind of accident. Do you have any more info about the 44 killed scientists by the alien being.

I am assuming these scientists were from all corners of the Earth. Many family members of the 44 scientists should still be alive unless they were all killed in freak accidents or some disease. Rik Riley

Thanks for the pst rk. When scientists are recruited into projects such as these they don't recruit scientists that belong to Kiwanas, go home on weekends, have families, are boy scout leaders or are well known in their community specifically for this reason. If anything happens they don't want to have to explain or deal with irrate and tearful family members.

Much like what probably happened with the case of the missing passengers on the alleged airplanes during 911 the families were probably paid huge amounts of money to keep their mouths shut along with an appeal for the good of "National Security". By the time the family finds out it was a scam its too late. They have already spent the money and signed the papers.

Under no circumstances would any world reknown scientists be brought into a program like this.

The only name that came up during my original investigation of Dulce was Dr. Garry Henderson (a friend of a friend of mine) who disappeared about the same time as the Dulce incident. Henderson turned up later no worse for wear and it was never proven that he was ever at or knew about Dulce.

Thanks again for the post.

Here is the original typewritten notes that I made copying the original handwritten notes below. I included the first paragraph as an explanation to the Dulce papers that I was sending out to my friends. I forgot to post these with the Dulce story above.