Dreamworld.. place or creation of the mind

Just wondering what your thoughts are about the place you go to when you sleep.. is it a total creation of your mind or do you go tosleep and then project out your body and slip into a different dimension. Personally im still not too sure whether you go into a different dimension as such but more than likely just your brain creating everything.

To me it is a combination of both. You will leave the body and go to your personal astral place. There you will unconciously create your dreams, but when lucid dreaming you can do the creating conciously there. This is also the place for meditation.

I've always thought for a long time that when we dream were looking into an "other" Version of this world, Especially the dreams where youre in a strangely familliar place yet you've never been there in real life.

Just how does the mind create this elaborate construct in realtime? seems a little bit Magnificent to me for it to be just a made up thought in a dream.

I dream of places I have been say like Manchester city center for example Its recognizable as manchester but its different it all lookes like its from 20 years in the future and everytime I dream of Manchester its always the same..same shops n bars n people ect. like i'm catching a glimpse of me in a paralell universe, picking up Memories? I'm never doing anything out of the ordinary i these types of dreams, its like I'm just watching myself go through the motions , simple stuff like get on a buss...buy somthing from the shop.e.c.t.

Its all very intresting stuff!

However I dont think all dreams are of the above,
the dreams where every thing is subjective and changing is obviously just a normal dream, opposed to the above wich is in no way subjective and everything is constant..for example you can read a sign and if you look at it again it will say the same. where a sa normal dream it WILL change ..it probly won't even bee a sign anymore :-)

probley my fav subject this

Sometimes I feel as though perhaps the place in which our dreams take place is really another place and not just part of the mind, and this is because things that have happened in previous dreams are mentioned and remembered in newer dreams. Although, to be fair, this could certainly be done by the mind, but I'm swayed to think it's somewhere else.

Some say that all humans and even animals are connected through the subconcious,while two people may have been at the same place at the same time they will remember different things about the situation.Like a couple for example,perhaps they remember a sunset they witnessed one night but they both remember different colours in the sky.

lets say that what we see and hear is created by our interaction with it.

If our mass of exchanging information,cells and energies were not here to witness these things with our minds and senses that it would not exsist to us. Some studies say that we create the physical world within our reality by using our minds to connect energy and information to substance of matter and that what we arnt looking at isnt actually there until we look at it.

when we sleep we shut down our major senses and go into a state of the mind looking around without them to create the world physically around us.Remember that they say that we only use our senses to send the information to the brain,which creates what we think and feel based on the information it recieves and that the brain is quite capable of createing images sounds and feelings based on memory.

Some say that what happens when we sleep is the exchange between our concious of what we witnessed that day and our subconciouse the storage of all knowledge we have attained,they say that this results in us seeing images and dreams.

To many this seems too simple to be the right explanation.

Now if you believe that we are all connected this is also being transferred to the collective streams of information and energy which surround and connect all living and non living things. This may create realms and places comprised of many different memories and pehaps dimensions which could result in many places seeming similar yet different,aswell you could go somewhere you have never been.

When talking about this dreamworld there are many different studies involved depending on which direction you take with it.I will post more soon.

Scarecrow.

Interesting

What I find so fastanating in my lucid dreams is dream characters. This morning I had a lucid dream and I just sat down in my dream and watched people as they passed by and observed them closely to see if I might of seen them before when awake. I suppose some of these dream characters can come from things like television sub consciously.

My dreams have kind of faultered in recent years. I'm only 15, but when I was younger, I was...well almost fully conscious in dreams. I would actually practice trying to give myself more self-control in dreams.

It started out where I had the typical nightmare where someone was going to kill me or what not. I would get paralyzed with fear and eventually the dream would end, preventing my death. As a younger child I guess I could sort of build my level of consciousness within dreams, and eventually when that person or scary thing was about to kill me, I could use powers totally unrealistic in our world. I could pretty much do anything I wanted to after awhile.

It's very weird, but slowly I could control more of what I did in dreams.

It started out with just being able to save myself in nightmares.

Then I could sort of "choose what I wanted to say" in dreams if you understand that.

And the last thing I was able to do, was be pretty much consciously in dreams to the point where I could force myself to wake up at any time in dreams.

I don't know how unusual this is or may sound, but I've never really told anyone about it before. But as a kid it got to the point where I was conscious in my dreamworld, yet I guess still unconcious.

Plus, I always had fun manipulating what my dream world would look like by thinking lots of random thoughts and seeing lots of random things during the day.

But yeah, dreams are something that I have yet to understand. Like you said, they may be simply like another plane of existence. Or perhaps they are a combination of both of your ideas. Perhaps the mind is so powerful that it can literally create another plane of existence while you are sleeping.

Interesting stuff.

Hmm this is an interesting topic. Some one mentioned watching people while lucid dreaming- this brought to mind a recent LD of mine (I don't lucid dream very often - though not for want of trying!).

Where I came across a group of "dream travellers", they had formed a little group of travellers who met up and journeyed together in dreams.
When I came across them I was having a normal dream, they sat down with me and we were chatting when suddenly I went "lucid" and I said out loud "Hey! I've just gone Lucid" as I experienced the characteristic euphoria hit that comes when I start a LD.
They all smiled at each other and then congratulated me for "joining" them. We set off together and I happily showed one of the group how I could fly and pass my hand through doors and walls and she explained some of things she was able to do while in a LD..
I won't bore you with the rest of the details except to say that this LD lasted for a long time and I was able to do something which I had never done before in a LD, that was to travel "instantaneously" just by thinking about where I wanted to go.

Anyways back to the original idea that people meet up while dreaming and in this case these people had been doing it for a long time.

Needless to say I have not had a LD since so I cannot "prove" this idea of mine.
, other option is that it was not a lucid dream but an OBE..But as I have yet to experience a waking OBE I cannot comment

I wonder if anyone else has experienced anything similar-

Yeah i'm thinking that when you dream you go into an empty space and the mind can't deal with this empty space so it starts to create stuff. This is why sometimes your dreams can get out of control and become scary. If you think that somethings there, in the dream world, it is.

Just last night I dreamt that I was an angel in human form and I was sitting on the roof of a skyscraper talking to some other angels. I had just come across my human form and was getting used to it. I needed to fart but I was embarrased to. Then one of my companions, a male, just told me to let it happen because it feels good. Then I farted and it felt really good. After that I learnt that basically us angels were taking human form to enjoy all the strange things humans can do. This man angel talked, for what seemed like hours, about how much he loved to defaecate.

Another looked like Alicia Silverstone and she loved to drive cars really fast. It was crazy but the funniest bit was when this other guy came out onto the roof and he looked pretty sad, and Alicia angel asked him what the matter was.
He said he was being punished for having a threesome with a married couple. Apparently it really messed the humans up and they had to have their memories erased.
crazy.

Is the place of your dreaming real or simply a construct of one’s subconscious? This is a question which I have explored in some depth with regard to my own successful lucid dreaming experiences. I have frequently alternated between believing my dreamscape to be some legitimate form of alternate reality and believing them to be complex, yet wholly fabricated, constructs of my own devising. I think that if we are to explore this issue in any depth, we need to dismiss many of our own pre-held assumptions regarding the nature of dreams and the act of dreaming itself. Is dreaming simply a form of astral projection? I have no idea, but perhaps it doesn’t matter when it comes to answering this specific question.

I think that bringing a level of objectivity to this study would benefit our explorations in this matter. Because if dreams aren’t simply reflections of our sub-conscious fears and desires, if there is some form of genuine alternate reality experience taking place during our sleeping hours, then we should reasonably expect to see evidence of characters, locations and events of which we cannot possibly have any knowledge, subconscious or otherwise. Perhaps this requires further clarification. Like you, Clarky, I have taken some interest in examining the inhabitants of my dreams. Of course, this is always done during lucid dreams, which I have very regularly. One night, I was engaged in a conversation with a woman in my dream. We were discussing the reality of my dream and I felt bold enough to point out to her that she was, in fact, simply a musing of my own subconscious. This is something which I have done since then, but never to such significant effects. The woman politely resisted the notion that she was simply a figment of my subconscious. She told me her name (which I have now forgotten – an early lesson to always keep a detailed dream diary) and asked me if I had ever seen a woman who looked like her in reality. I told her that I don’t think I had. She then showed me a house with people coming and going from it. She asked me if I had ever seen any of the people, or the house itself, anywhere other than in my dream. I answered that both the people and the house were unfamiliar. She then declared her belief that, if this were truly a dream, surely the places and people within it should reflect those familiar to me in my waking state. I further reasoned that perhaps she, the people and the house were familiar to my subconscious, if not my conscious mind. Perhaps I had glimpsed them somewhere – on TV, or whilst driving – and simply taken no note of them, tucking them away in my subconscious to be resurrected in this dreamscape. She admitted that this was possible, but argued that it was nonetheless strange for a dream character to defend its own existence.

This in turn started me thinking about unknown knowledge. If we see people or places or learn knowledge in a dream which we have no way of knowing during our waking hours, this would lend some degree of credence to arguments that dreams represent something other than symbols and metaphor. Of course, the danger here is in separating those things which we genuinely do not and cannot know from those things which are simply tucked away in the depths of our subconscious. We may not think we have seen a particular person before, but perhaps our mind captured their image from a fleeting glimpse in the supermarket and imposed them upon our dreams. It would be different, however, if one were able to demonstrate genuine acquisition of knowledge from a dream which is demonstrably beyond our waking experiences. This may be something you might want to watch for, Clarky, in your future lucid dreams.

I am also interested in observing the existence of apparent ‘rules’ within lucid dreaming situations and, more specifically, in determining whether or not these rules have a basis in reality, or are the constructs of my own limitations and imaginings. If any of you have ever observed noticeable limitations or rules whilst lucid dreaming, I should be glad to hear of them. Perhaps if many people all reported similar limitations or constraints whilst lucid dreaming it would lend support to some form of external influence or reality.

Finally, without wishing to blow my own trumpet, if anyone is having a tough time instigating or maintaining lucid dreams, might I humbly suggest my somewhat detailed post on techniques which have worked for myself and for friends of mine who are anything but fanciful. Check it out here. Hopefully, by working together, we can shed some light on this issue in a manner which precludes an over abundance of subjectivity.

I just read your suggestion for dream recall. I've always had a bit of a hit and miss relationship with dream recall. Sometimes I could recall an epic or sometimes I have no memory at all.
Just recently, five days ago in fact, I started to keep a dream diary. Every morning since I've woken with a memory about my dream. The point i'm making is it really works. Right now my dream recall hasn't fully developed but soon...who knows?

The realest place in the Unionverse, we are in a dreamer's dream and the physical is a mere projection of this dreamscape we call Life.

If anyone has done any experimenting whilst lucid id love to hear about it btw, its so fastinating to try and do/see the same when im next lucid to see if the same thing happens etc......

Heres something I did the other night when I became lucid. I decided to look at my hands which ive done before and noticed how this time my hands seemed really stiff when I opened them and kind of plastic but they still had all the little details.

Originally posted by Clarky
If anyone has done any experimenting whilst lucid id love to hear about it btw

Indeed, there are a couple of things that are interesting to try whilst engaged in lucid dreaming. As I said, try directly questioning the people who appear in your dreams. Ask them if they think they are real or are aware of the fact that they are simply dream creatures. Also, try floating just a few inches above the ground. Regularly in my lucid dreams I have observed that, whilst flying seems to have no apparent ill effect on the inhabitants of my dreams, hovering a few inches above the ground results in nothing less than sheer terror amongst the hapless inhabitants. They tend to point and stare and scream, precisely the way people might were this to happen in reality. Finally, you can always try the old techniques of trying to turn on the lights or tell time. Many people have noted that these relatively simple actions require enormous effort, even in the most lucid of dreams. Another one which I have noted is trying to sign your own name.

Let me know how you go. As I said, it will be interesting to note whether there are any recurring issues relating to lucid dreaming. If there are, perhaps it might be possible to assemble some kind of "rule list" relating to lucid dreams.

[edit on 11/7/06 by Jeremiah25]

Originally posted by Clarky
Just wondering what your thoughts are about the place you go to when you sleep.. is it a total creation of your mind or do you go tosleep and then project out your body and slip into a different dimension. Personally im still not too sure whether you go into a different dimension as such but more than likely just your brain creating everything.

Well, ... when you are in deep sleep your brain releases a chemical called, NN-'___', which is a VERY powerful hallucinogenic... it is also released at the time of death, (from the pineal gland) ... '___' is also found in all eco-systems world-wide and is also one of the WORLDs most illegal substances.
Keep in mind, if you don't sleep you go crazy... Thats the same as saying... If you don't trip out, you go crazy... sounds funny but its true. '___' has also been called "The Spirit Molecule" People who smoke '___' orally, explain that it would be a misdiagnosis to say that you are in a false reality or a fabrication/hallucination, they explain seeing an altogether different and REAL reality, an actual happening perhaps beneath or above our original happening, i.e. a human for instance would no longer be material it would be transformed into pure light, (different colors) and instead of blood flowing you would see different colored light pulsing etc.. etc...
Many people would say that they are transported to a different but REAL dimension.

Menguard... have you ever seen Billy Madison before the movie with Adam Sandler in it? .. You know the part where he answers horribly?... please run that through your head.. Your use of language isn't profound.. what your putting forth is a theory, granted I put forth plenty of them, telling us we live in someone elses dream doesn't answer the lads question...

[edit on 12/7/06 by dnero6911]

I don't remember any rules while lucid dreaming except those that you set yourself. Some dreams I seem to have limited special powers such as flying but not always fully controlled the exact way I want to fly.

I remember one or two lucid dreams, well I thought they were lucid because I was so powerful in the dream that I could do anything but am now wondering if that was just the dream. Maybe that dream did have a rule. If I became an all powerful and omniscient creature, I lost my human emotions and seemed to be more of a creature of logic with my consciousness spread throughout the universe. I remember that was a really strange sensation.

I remember that dream because it was very unusual and it seemed like I got stuck and bored in it. It's boring if you can do anything and you already know the outcome if you do actually create something. It was a ton of fun though as I became powerful and altered the Earth before altering the rest of the universe. Then at some point, I felt like I lost my desires and ambitions and just became some sort of superpowerful entity. The dream wasn't much fun after that. However if I remember dreaming lucid again, I may try to dissolve the reality of the dream and see if I see anything within it.

I remember other strange dreams where I seemed somehow transported to an alien planet or a different dimension. There were strange creatures grazing on some weird looking plants. The sky was glowing red. Our sky looks blue but this one was red. That made an impression on me. I dreamed all of this after I thought I woke up from bed and looked out the window. I kept looking realizing that I couldn't be awake.

Originally posted by Jeremiah25

Originally posted by Clarky
If anyone has done any experimenting whilst lucid id love to hear about it btw

Indeed, there are a couple of things that are interesting to try whilst engaged in lucid dreaming. As I said, try directly questioning the people who appear in your dreams. Ask them if they think they are real or are aware of the fact that they are simply dream creatures. Also, try floating just a few inches above the ground. Regularly in my lucid dreams I have observed that, whilst flying seems to have no apparent ill effect on the inhabitants of my dreams, hovering a few inches above the ground results in nothing less than sheer terror amongst the hapless inhabitants. They tend to point and stare and scream, precisely the way people might were this to happen in reality. Finally, you can always try the old techniques of trying to turn on the lights or tell time. Many people have noted that these relatively simple actions require enormous effort, even in the most lucid of dreams. Another one which I have noted is trying to sign your own name.

Let me know how you go. As I said, it will be interesting to note whether there are any recurring issues relating to lucid dreaming. If there are, perhaps it might be possible to assemble some kind of "rule list" relating to lucid dreams.

[edit on 11/7/06 by Jeremiah25]

Ive noticed people being shocked when I fly just above the ground quite a few times and this tends to be when im dreaming about being back at school. Its funny though because 1 in 3 of my dreams is usually a lucid one and yet I still cant help showing off that I can fly. Recently ive been going up to people I recognise in my dreams such as friends and i'll grab them and say things along the lines of.. 'oi mate its lee! look your dreaming! its me lee! come on you can fly watch and i'll show you'. Then the next day I see that person and ive actually asked them if theyd seen me in there dream last night but they look at me gone out and say something like 'huh! I doubt it mate I dont remember my dreams'. Im not a strong believer in shared dreaming anyway though but at the time in my dream it just seems so real.

Two other things before I go... Do you tend to fly by jumping up into the air, stay suspended and then use the breastroke method by going upwards or diagonal? and... have you ever got tangled in the power lines when flying or had to fly through them and avoid getting tangled in them?

Edit: btw - im aware of the light switch problem but havnt ever tried it and as regards to telling the time.. ive never been able to read in my dreams but recently ive had success.

[edit on 12/7/06 by Clarky]

Hmm flying in dreams.
well I tend to fly in both normal dreams and lucid dreams. While in "normal" It can often be quite laborous to fly, involving "breast stroking" just to get a few feet of the ground and then more to remain in the air. Other occasions flyingf often comes as a mental challenge to myself while normal dreaming, usually I'm in a situation where I have to jump from a great height and I pass a few moments of pure fear as I start to plumment but then I realize that I'm not going to nose dive into distant ground at terminal velocity and float up and just soar away effortlessly-

LD flight is different because I control it 100%, Sometimes its a jump up into the air and off to where I want to go no probs at all. Othertimes I float up easily from the ground just thinking bout it.

However I'm intrigued to passerby response noted by other posters, in my dreams when I fly (be it lucid or normal), people accept it with no hassle at all, infact in some instances I've gone to great lengths to show how well I can do somersaults and rolls and noone bats an eyelid at all ..... interestingly which the exception of one particular dream I have not encountered anyone else flying in my dreams.

Just thought I'd tell you about this crazy dream I had last night which might indicate that the dreamworld's not all a creeation of the mind. But then again it might not.
I was having a drink in the pub with a couple of mates when a boxer that we knew, not in real life, came up to say hello. It turned out that he had a big fight tonight in the pub that we was drinking in. Then he turned to me and we had a conversation which struck me as very odd.
He told me not to get too drunk because last time we went to watch him I got bladdered and embarrased him. The I had a vague half drunken memory about that incident two weekends ago.
I said that wasn't going to happen this time, but he pointed out that it's only half seven and i'm sh*t faced already. At this point I realised he was right and stopped drinking the spirits and instead nursed a pint of lager.
That's only a miniscule part of my dream but the point that I'm drawing attention to was the memory I had. In the dream it was like I'd lived there all my life. I had no reason to question the reality of it.
When I woke up I was like, woah man, that's crazy. Of course in this world I could easily question the reality of it. For starters there was a camera that I owned that doesn't exist in real life. And a toy helicopter that also doesn't exist in real life.
crazy

Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
In the dream it was like I'd lived there all my life. I had no reason to question the reality of it.

Indeed, I always marvel at the level of acceptance of reality which occurs during dreams. I had a dream just last night where I was teaching primary school. Now, I have not taught for a number of years and then it was high school. But when I was immersed in the dream, my mind accepted everything as real. I completely accepted that I was a primary school teacher and that this was my life and this is what I did. I have had other dreams wherein I have had memories of things which never happened, but which served to complement whichever dream I was having. Once I dreamed I was a soldier and I could remember basic training. It was as though the dream was simply my life – like it had always been that way. In these dreams I am, of course, unaware of any life outside the dream.

This strange acceptance of the dream world as actual reality has occurred even where such dreams defy logic. We have all had those dreams where the bedroom from our childhood house existed alongside our living room from our present house, or where our school exists in another town. But we accept even these glaringly obvious deviations from actuality. I wonder at the power of a process which can blind us to the very existence of reality. Because it’s not even that we question reality during these dreams – we don’t even think to, because the dream becomes our reality. What might this say for other forms of non-tangible realities which are nevertheless accepted by people? I am thinking about things such as the realities perceived by schizophrenics, for example. What process is it which can convince us that our non-dreaming lives never even existed? Is there any analogy with the delusions of those suffering from mental illness? What are the implications for our own constructions of what does and does not constitute reality? I am interested to hear your thoughts on this matter. Good thread, by the way Clarky.