Thank goodness....

I have jsut read that Israel has rejected Palestines offer for a truce. Israel is Gods chosen land and for HIS chosen ppl, and i'm glad to see theres at LEAST 1 country that doesn't give into political pressure nor is willing to take any priosners. Sometimes you have to be brutal, but the end result will justify the reasoning. Palestine SHOULD think twice before doing something like this again. Israel don't play that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I allways find amusing how some people, maybe in possession of a proxy from god, say that this or that country/people/soccer club is the chosen by god.

Israel is a invented country, made by people with heavy consciences and deep pockets for the ones that could give them some in return.

an invented country?? how did you come up with that idea?? Especially considering that Israel has a LONGGGGGGGG history as told in the Bible. Back in the day, i SERIOUSLY doubt that ppl had anything to give to Israel. It got what it did from God and with the hard work of the Israelites, it flourished. Also let us not forget that Israel has the best army in the galaxy...God!!!

The "original" Israel had a long history, today's Israel is an invented country, with pieces of land taken from the neighbouring regions.

What Israel was in the times of the Bible has nothing to do with what Israel is today.

And if it was god who gave them their country, why did they need the European countries decision of creating the state of Israel in 1947?

Also, the fact that they have a good army (I do not have enough information to know if it is the best in the World or not, much less the best of the galaxy) means nothing to me, I do not think that the quality of a country's army shows the quality of the country, on the contrary.

If they had been a country known for their good behaviour as a World state, then they would have my respect.

Being as they are, to me they are just a small country with a superiority complex.

Originally posted by ArMaP
The "original" Israel had a long history, today's Israel is an invented country, with pieces of land taken from the neighbouring regions.

An invented country? So what defines a 'standard' country? Because they were given the land with use of little force and are now defending their own homes/ people?

What Israel was in the times of the Bible has nothing to do with what Israel is today.

Quite correct. BUT.. given the choice of living where your ancestors/ religion lies or going to Africa (East I think) what would you choose?

And if it was god who gave them their country, why did they need the European countries decision of creating the state of Israel in 1947?

I think, if i'm not mistaken, the Israelis decided to return to their 'homeland' without the help of God. Infact many Jews returned on their own accord and decided to act on their beliefs without waiting.

If they had been a country known for their good behaviour as a World state, then they would have my respect.

Being as they are, to me they are just a small country with a superiority complex.

Good behaviour/ superiority complex? Well It can be quite difficult when surrounded by countires who all want to see the back of you. Of course they shouldn't stand down when provoked. Surrounding countries threatening to 'wipe you off the map' would get me to hit back. When the countries surrounding Israel (many terrorists or linked to terrorism in my eyes) give up their anti-Zionist views i'm more than sure Israel will also calm down.

Originally posted by Knights
I think, if i'm not mistaken, the Israelis decided to return to their 'homeland' without the help of God. Infact many Jews returned on their own accord and decided to act on their beliefs without waiting.

Returned???? Show me where it says that all of these Europeans are exactly the same people as the Israelis from 2000 years ago. The most of the jewish people in Israel right now are originally Eastern Europeans who se ancestors have converted to judaism.

And Snazuolu,

I just have to ask... Are you jewish or christian???


[edit on 8-7-2006 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by Knights

An invented country? So what defines a 'standard' country? Because they were given the land with use of little force and are now defending their own homes/ people?

I called it an invented country because it was decided by the powers who were responsible for that region of the World that a new country would be created in that place.

It could have been a "standard" country, as you call it, if the people of that region decided to make a new country and declared independence from the nation/nations that occupied that region of the World.

I think, if i'm not mistaken, the Israelis decided to return to their 'homeland' without the help of God. Infact many Jews returned on their own accord and decided to act on their beliefs without waiting.

Yes, that was what I was trying to say, they are there not because they are the god's chosen people but because they went to that place and the ones who occupied it decided to make a new country for them.

Good behaviour/ superiority complex? Well It can be quite difficult when surrounded by countires who all want to see the back of you. Of course they shouldn't stand down when provoked. Surrounding countries threatening to 'wipe you off the map' would get me to hit back. When the countries surrounding Israel (many terrorists or linked to terrorism in my eyes) give up their anti-Zionist views i'm more than sure Israel will also calm down.

The only problem is that the other countries surround Israel because Israel was made between the other countries when the other countries already existed there more or less in the situation they are today, Israel was "the new kid on the block" imposed by the occupiers.

And you can be surrounded by enemies and still have a good behaviour. I do not know the teachings of the Jewish religion (yet), but I suppose that this is another religion that is based on the comprehension between all of the god's creation.

to answer the question, i am Christian. I have found some verses that describe and tell the hows and whys of Israel.
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. ( Lev. 20:26 )

For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: 8. But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt...

Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger? 25. Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: 26. For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them: 27. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: (Deut. 29:24-28)

And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive. (Jer. 29:14)

Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

everything that happened in real life, was foretold in the Bible. Everything so far is able to be explained according to the Bible. Even the holocaust is explained why God did this against the Jews. There was a website that really got into this and showed how everything that has happened to the Jews, is EXACTLY detailed in the Bible. I will try to find it again as it was very thorough. I really like the 2nd verse that i put up as that verse says it all...

Israel today is an entirely different country than Israel (Judea) 2000 years ago. They are primarily different people and IMO not related to the jews of 2000 years ago. The jews in that time where not caucasian.

And second of all, how would the Christian God choose people (if he actually did choose these jews as well) who would want to implement a bill that woud make it illegal to attempt to convert jews to christianity?? (I 'm trying to find out if it became law). People who discriminate against christians?

It's crazy religious viewpoints like this that caused all the trouble in the Middle east in the first place.

Good Job.

Nothing crazy about believeing and having faith in a religion. For that matter, if more of the ppl on this board had any faith, they wouldnt' make such silly comments or posts for that matter.

They WOULDN'T make silly and crazy comments on the board!?!?


Is The Ark of the Covenant in Japan?

How will he come?

Is Bush the Anti-christ?!

Nah, theres enough religious crazy comments to even out the board.


Back on topic. Israel, the state of Israel, was not made until 1947. It did not exist. And it costed many peoples homes in that land as they were pushed out into "temporary" camps.

One group leaves concentration camps, just to shove others into it.

The original Judea (israel) isn't even believed to be there, it was believed to be in sudan.

Modern Israel is essentially a European colony in the Middle East.
Dress it up however you want, but that's the basic reality of the situation.

There is no continuity of history between modern Israel and ancient Israel.

If you're an American like me, consider this situation: a group of heavily armed Native Americans comes to your home and kicks you out, pointing out (correctly) that the land was theirs 500 years ago. They have absolute faith that their status as followers of the Great Sky Spirit gives them the right to do this - after all, the Great Sky Spirit gave them the land thousands of years ago.

Now do you say, "oh OK" and accept that you have to go live in a refugee camp now, or do you fight to get your home back? I know what I'd do.

The situation with modern Israel is essentially the same.
Now I'm not one to debate the "right" of Israel to exist - Israel does exist, and has for 50 years. But on the other hand, if I grew up in a refugee camp, knowing that my people were kicked out of their homes by a bunch of armed foreigners, I'd want to kill the SOB's too.

If the Israeli's cant recognize this, and find a way to make craft a peace that leaves the Palestinians with some control over their own destiny, they can expect to be at war indefinitely. They can expect suicide bombing, bus bombings, kidnappings, and every other manner of atrocity as long as there are any Palestinians left alive. Because they've created a group of desperate refugees that have absolutely nothing left to lose.

As far as "faith" goes, my faith in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster says I have the right to kill you and your family and take all your stuff, since you're not one of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster's chosen people. Does that make me right? After all, God is clearly on my side, at least in my view.

[edit on 7/9/06 by xmotex]

Yeah, God's Chosen People sure have a funny way of showing it... Israel is a terrorist sponsoring nation that for some really sickening reasons, is not held to the same standards as the rest of the world, a Talmudic Dogma reinforced by the subserviantial financed international community has created a humanitarian crisis which has gone on now for decades. Israel is the current record holder for violations of UN resolutions, and yet time after time the US has used it's seat on the UN security Council to defeat any resolutions which would act to even so much as censure Israel. Meanwhile, children starve, people are shot like dogs, homes are destroyed, supplies, food, revenues, medicenes and basic freedoms are denied to the people that have lived there for thousands of years. I really don't think God almighty would condone decades of murderous repression, do you?

Originally posted by twitchy
There is a growing Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza. Israel makes a big show for the rest of the world by 'withdrawing' from Gaza, and 'give it back' to them, then withhold their tax revenues, cut off their food, their fuel, and medical supplies, in other words starve them right back out of it. Infitada is alive and well in Gaza. Sickening. The Jewish owned western media would have you believe this is because of the new Hamas Government, but it's been going on for decades.
They're starving, while Omert simply denies it's happening...
Gaza on brink of humanitarian crisis
Gaza facing humanitarian crisis
Humanitarian Crisis Looms in Gaza, warns UN
UN: Israel, Palestinians nearing humanitarian crisis
Humanitarian crisis on Gaza doorstep: UN
Growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza
Palestinians’ Ongoing Humanitarian Crisis Deepening in Gaza
Current violence pushing Gaza into a humanitarian crisis
GAZA STARVING
Rubbish collection has been cut in Gaza City, and sanitation and sewerage
Immediate action needed to avert humanitarian crisis in Gaza
Fuel Shortage Exacerbates Palestinian Humanitarian Crisis Israel Chocking Palestinian Traffic, Bakeries, Hospitals and Family Kitchens
World Bank Warns of Humanitarian Crisis in West Bank and Gaza.
The Ongoing Humanitarian Crisis and Israeli Interference
Israel, pressured by international alarm over a brewing Palestinian humanitarian crisis, has agreed to release tens of millions of dollars in funds it has withheld from the Palestinians
Gaza Strip is dangerously short of basic foodstuffs Fuel cutoff swells humanitarian crisis
Humanitarian Organizations Warn of Deteriorating Economic Situation in Gaza
Supply shortages spark health crisis in Gaza
Gaza Facing Humanitarian Crisis
The humanitarian crisis in the Occupied Palestinian Territories
Gaza's food crisis challenges Hamas cabinet
U.S. tries to solve Gaza border crossing crisis

The United Nations warned on Saturday that the situation in the Gaza Strip is deteriorating and alarming, and blamed Israel for a humanitarian crisis in Gaza
Gaza death toll mounts as Israel rejects ceasefire
rejection by the United States and France of a draft UN Security Council resolution condemning Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip
It may arrive as some suprise to you but this latest offensive into Gaza was planned well before the Kidnapping incident.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
They WOULDN'T make silly and crazy comments on the board!?!?

Back on topic. Israel, the state of Israel, was not made until 1947. It did not exist. And it costed many peoples homes in that land as they were pushed out into "temporary" camps.

One group leaves concentration camps, just to shove others into it.

The original Judea (israel) isn't even believed to be there, it was believed to be in sudan.

God foretold that Israel would become a state and as far as pushing people out, God said he would bring HIS ppl back to that land which HE is still doing today as many ppl are still trying to afford a way to get back. As far as the Sudan theory, its not in the Bible so it doesn't matter. see, that last sentence is about FAITH. the Bible either believe it or don't, makes no difference to me, but i know that Israel is doing what God wants it to do and NOONE on this planet is going to stop HIS will. Thats what happened to Sharon, he gave up Gods land and is now being punished for his doing so.

Originally posted by Snazuolu

God foretold that Israel would become a state and as far as pushing people out, God said he would bring HIS ppl back to that land which HE is still doing today as many ppl are still trying to afford a way to get back. As far as the Sudan theory, its not in the Bible so it doesn't matter. see, that last sentence is about FAITH. the Bible either believe it or don't, makes no difference to me, but i know that Israel is doing what God wants it to do and NOONE on this planet is going to stop HIS will. Thats what happened to Sharon, he gave up Gods land and is now being punished for his doing so.

Well sorry, I'm not a big proponent of pushing a people out of theyre nation and causing war, strife, and terrorism because an old, arguably fictional, book tells us to.

No thanks.

Thats what happened to Sharon, he gave up Gods land and is now being punished for his doing so.

Congratulations, you sound exactly like Osama Bin Laden.

God, please save us from your followers...

Originally posted by Snazuolu
Nothing crazy about believeing and having faith in a religion. For that matter, if more of the ppl on this board had any faith, they wouldnt' make such silly comments or posts for that matter.

Explain to me exactly what comments you find silly and with a valid reason why.

Faith does not count as a valid reason. Furthermore I agree with Twitchy, WolfofWar and xmotex.

And two more questions... Aren't we all supposed to be God's children and isn't he supposed to love us all equally? Then what's with the discrimination against the rest of us non-israelis? If you accept that they are God's chosen people then you accept that God is DISCRIMINATING against you. And if God's discriminating against you, then he doesn't like or love you. And yet you would worship such a God who doesn't give a crap about you.

If you have 5 children, would you love them all equally or would you pick one over the rest?? Because that's that it looks like to me.

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by Snazuolu

God foretold that Israel would become a state and as far as pushing people out, God said he would bring HIS ppl back to that land which HE is still doing today as many ppl are still trying to afford a way to get back. As far as the Sudan theory, its not in the Bible so it doesn't matter. see, that last sentence is about FAITH. the Bible either believe it or don't, makes no difference to me, but i know that Israel is doing what God wants it to do and NOONE on this planet is going to stop HIS will. Thats what happened to Sharon, he gave up Gods land and is now being punished for his doing so.

Well sorry, I'm not a big proponent of pushing a people out of theyre nation and causing war, strife, and terrorism because an old, arguably fictional, book tells us to.

No thanks.

pushing WHAT ppl out??? it was ALWAYS the Jews land.....it never has been and never will be anyone elses land..its up to the Jews as to what happens to Israel and might I add Jersulam as well...

Originally posted by xmotex

Thats what happened to Sharon, he gave up Gods land and is now being punished for his doing so.

Congratulations, you sound exactly like Osama Bin Laden.

God, please save us from your followers...

I never will have any followers and i'm not condoning any acts of terrorism by man. God can do as he feels is necessary, we, mere mortals cannot...OBL wants to rid the world of the western civilizations, i am not trying ot get rid of anybody, all i started this post for was to announce my appreciation at Israel doing what it feels best instead of the usual diplomacy that never seems to work anyway. Israel is well known IMO for being very direct and effective. THATS the way it should be. none of this beating around the bush stuff like we're doing in Iraq. War is not meant to be pretty folks!!!! stop trying to make it pretty or less painful. You really think we could have won WW2 if we acted back then the way we do now?? COME ON... give me a break.