Project Moondust/Project Bluefly

I have seen all of the shows on sci-fi plus other channels dealing with Kecksberg Pa.I find it fascinating since i to live in Pennsylvania.The reason I started this thread is about project moondust and project bluefly.From what i can gather they were created to recover stuff that crashed to earth be it space junk or satilites to meteors to UFO's(as some would have you believe).Now on the sci-fi special I believe the offical explanation of moondust and bluefly was a couple of scientists working for nasa who would go all over the world tracking down these things.But at Kecksberg there appeared to be a whole lot more than a couple of scientists.So could Moondust and Bluefly be quasi disimformation meaning that there were a couple scientist going around looking for space junk,meteors,satilites but when it came to UFO's they would send in the real quick response team?If so does this UFO resonse team have a name or project name.Just curious.


www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/moondust.htm
www.nicap.org/moondust.htm

My personal feeling is moondust and bluefly are just covers and there is a real covert recovery team.I want to call them the blue berrets but that could be from a movie i'm not sure

Kevin Randle actually did a couple of books that dig deeper into the whole Blue Fly/Moondust. He seems to think that Blue Book was a cover-up for moondust/bluefly. He did show that there was an actual unit stationed at FT Belvior, VA that actually handled the more heavy duty cases that werent even in Blue Book's system.

Thanks for the info Skadi_the_Evil_Elf.

Hmm do you think Moondust/Bluefly could be the smoking gun?I mean the project so secret that they hide it in plane site?If you want to hide something put it in plane site and people won't notice.Moondust/Bluefly might not hold all the answers but i bet they are a good start to learn the truth.What stories there recovery team could tell!!!!!

Originally posted by othello
The reason I started this thread is about project moondust and project bluefly.

Hi Othello,

If you are interested in Project Moondust, you may be interested in the thread at the link below:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That thread related to a document (relating to Project Moondust) which several experienced people on ATS stated was a hoax. In fact, the relevant document (and various others relating to Project Moondust) are included in a file on the Defence Intelligence Agency's own website.

During the relevant thread, I gave references to various books and websites that include discussion of Project Moondust (as well as a link to the DIA file referred to above).

Kind Regards,

Isaac

Originally posted by othello
Thanks for the info Skadi_the_Evil_Elf.

Hmm do you think Moondust/Bluefly could be the smoking gun?I mean the project so secret that they hide it in plane site?If you want to hide something put it in plane site and people won't notice.Moondust/Bluefly might not hold all the answers but i bet they are a good start to learn the truth.What stories there recovery team could tell!!!!!

I imagine it could be part of the smoking gun. But not the whole. It is possible that they might hide such a thing in plain site.

www.nicap.org...

This is a really good summary of Projects Moondust and Blue Fly. Kevin Randle is one of the most highly respected ufologists in the field, and has done alot of good research. However, Moondust was not in plain sight as much as you say. It took a bit of digging.

The unit charged with the more secret UFO cases was the 4602nd special services group for the Air Force. I am certain they could tell you some stories, provided you could find one that would talk.

Thanks again Skadi_the_Evil_Elf for the links.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think in the link to the cube ufo document TigeriS was onto something about the documents.I have to wonder to if the powers that be on purpose take important papers and hoax them up (meaning wrong stamps,mis spellings,and other mistakes) so that if those documents do get leaked out then they and the skeptics can sream hoax and say its not real.Just a thought.

Originally posted by othello
Thanks again Skadi_the_Evil_Elf for the links.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think in the link to the cube ufo document TigeriS was onto something about the documents.I have to wonder to if the powers that be on purpose take important papers and hoax them up (meaning wrong stamps,mis spellings,and other mistakes) so that if those documents do get leaked out then they and the skeptics can sream hoax and say its not real.Just a thought.

Actually, there are a number of researchers who have suggested just that. And its not unlikely either. In fact, its brilliant. You take a highly classified document. You tweak the info in it to screw with it and ruin its form. Then you distribute it. Researchers see it, say, its a fake, this didnt exist, blah blah blah. Its a hoax.

And thus, you have successfully hidden stuff in plain sight. I tend to feel the same way about the MJ-12 documents.

Regarding the MJ-12 documents.Did you ever read the book by Stanton Friedman call Top Secret Majic?It is a pretty interesting book where he makes his case for the MJ-12 papers by going to archeives,libraries etc.After reading it I lean towards the documents being real.I mean the gov might of hoaxed them up a bit but the general principal of the MJ-12 papers are real.

There are some other interesting FOIA Documents regarding Blue Fly and Moon Dust.

Here is one that details Peruvian Air Force firing on and attempting to intercept a couple of UFOs , that are referred to as Vehicles!

www.cufon.org... ( Doc # 36 at top of page )

So I'd say the usual skeptical response that these were simply Projects to recover man made foreign Satellites and space debris is not quite the case.

Originally posted by othello
Regarding the MJ-12 documents.Did you ever read the book by Stanton Friedman call Top Secret Majic?It is a pretty interesting book where he makes his case for the MJ-12 papers by going to archeives,libraries etc.After reading it I lean towards the documents being real.I mean the gov might of hoaxed them up a bit but the general principal of the MJ-12 papers are real.

I have a copy of the book as well as his book on Roswell, Crash at Corona.

I am not convinced that the MJ-12 documents are a hoax, as even without Friedman's research on it, the debunker theories simply are too weak themselves. For example, dating formats. Even when I was in the military and we had computers, you would find handtyped documents where the date format was not standard, usually because it was manually typed instead of computer generated, and it is easy to revert back to civilian formats without thinking. Especially if the person typing it is a civilian themselves.

Thats just one example. Id go into more, but im a bit fuzzy headed right now.

Even if the documents themselves were faked, it was an inside job done by some very knowledgeable people high up in the government. If it was faked, I dont believe it was the content itself that was made up. Just some tweaking to make the documents less than believable.

lost shaman, you are correct. I honestly do not believe anyone has really ever proved that Moondust or bluefly dont exist.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

lost shaman, you are correct. I honestly do not believe anyone has really ever proved that Moondust or bluefly dont exist.

I certainly agree, I was under the impression that the FOIA Documents do prove the two Projects existed.

I'm inclined to think that those two Projects supported the Interplanetary Phenomena Unit ( IPU) , although I can't evidence that at the moment. It's my understanding that the Army claimed the IPU existed and that all files were transferred to AFOSI , but AFOSI claims no knowledge of those files. Go figure...

[opinion]

Of course releasing those files would show beyond doubt that the U.S. Military seriously wanted to recover a "Disk" during and after WWII. That's just my current Opinion.

[/opinion]




[edit on 11-7-2006 by lost_shaman]

Othello- here's a couple of links that may be of interest.
www.skepticfiles.org...
www.virtuallystrange.net...

Also in Kevin Randles book Conspiracy Of Silence, page 168 he refers to the document Stone investigated.
Under paragraph 5, subsection F "Blue Fly: Operation Blue Fly has been established to facilitate expeditious delivery of FTD of Moon Dust or other itemsof great technical intelligence interest. AFCIN SOP for Blue Fly operations, February 1960, Provides for the 1127th participation."

Subsection G: "Moon Dust: As a specialized aspect of its overall material exloitation program, Headquarters USAF has established Project Moon Dust to locate, recover, and deliver descended foreign space vehicles. ICGL #4, 25 April 1961 delineates collection responsibilities."

And under Paragraph 5, Definitions: "Unidentified Flying Objects(UFO): Headquaters USAF has established a program for investigation of reliably reported unidentified flying objects within the United States. AFR 200-2 delineates 1127th collection responsibilities."

Note there is still some debate regards the validity of the document. However at the insistence of Stone Sen. Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico queried the Air Force Congressional liaison Office and recieved the following response from Lt. Col. John Madison of the Congressional Inquiry Division, Office of Legislative Liaison-
"There is no agency, nor has there ever been, at Ft. Bevoir, Virginia, which would deal with UFOs or have any information about the incident in Roswell. In addition, there is no Project Moon Dust or Operation Blue Fly. Those missions never existed."

So there ya go. As usual the gummint denies and we just keep on searchin for the truth. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by longhaircowboy

Note there is still some debate regards the validity of the document. However at the insistence of Stone Sen. Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico queried the Air Force Congressional liaison Office and recieved the following response from Lt. Col. John Madison of the Congressional Inquiry Division, Office of Legislative Liaison-
"There is no agency, nor has there ever been, at Ft. Bevoir, Virginia, which would deal with UFOs or have any information about the incident in Roswell. In addition, there is no Project Moon Dust or Operation Blue Fly. Those missions never existed."

LHC,

Check this out...

"This is in response to your Freedom of Information Act request
of October 7, 1986, for information on the Interplanetary
Phenomenon Unit of the Scientific and Technical Branch,
Counterintelligence Directorate, Department of the Army....

"Please be advised that the aforementioned Army unit was
disestablished during the late 1950's and never reactivated.
All records pertaining to this unit were turned over to the US
Air Force, Office of Special Investigations [AF
Counterintelligence] in conjunction with operation 'BLUEBOOK'."

www.virtuallystrange.net...

Anyone who is into researching UFO history should know or at least suspect that "Bluebook" , and especially Ruppelt , were clueless about any of this.

Ruppelt admittedly didn't even know about the "Green Fireballs" ( an Air Force Investigation ) until Hynek informed him.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by lost_shaman]

I want to thank everyone for there links to moondust and bluefly.They have all been informative and very compelling evidence.I first heard about moondust and bluefly during the kecksberg story on the sci-fi channel.Since then I haven't heard anything about it on various tv channels.I like to think I have seen all of the documentaries and storys about UfO on tv.But strangely enough nothing on moondust and bluefly.Its a shame since if alot of theses reporters would dig into this deep enough there eyes might be open to the truth.This still could be the smoking gun(my opinion).

I have 2 more questions maybe you guys could help me.First is about the freedom of information act.Do they have to give up the documents if they are declassified or if they are declassified can they make them secret again to stop you from seeing them(Basically from the time you request said documents is there a time frame that they have to abide by if they want to make them secret again)?


Second Do I have this right.Moondust would go out and find and determine if the stuff is of high technical value be it a satilite or a ufo and then secure it and then bluefly would pick it up and take it as fast and secretly as they could to the FTD at Wright-Patterson?

FOIA requests can garner some strange results. Think long and hard on what it is you wish to know and articulate your proposal well. If you make an inquirey be specific. Any vaguearies can seriously skew your results.

And yes you pretty much got the gist.

FOIA requests are funny things. Like longhaircowboy stated, you gotta be REALLY specific about what youre looking for, which can be difficult. For instance, if you say ask for something vague, like say, air force ufo files, youll get a letter saying the air force no longer investigates ufos, as a result of the condon report which stated they were not worth investigating, blah blah blah.

Also, they can withold requests, by appealing the disclosure on the basis of national security. Declassified documents they generally wont bother with, although its worth noting that a number of declassified documents have been heavily blacked out. If you do manage to get them to release classified info, its more than likely to be blacked out.

As to your second question, like longhair said, yeah. Thats pretty much it.

This thread hasn't had any updates in a while... but I've been getting FOIA information from the Air Force about BLUE FLY (posted in my blog at hiddenholloman.blogspot.com...)

Here were the big "three" projects:

[Taken from AFHRA IRIS document 1012833]:

"Project BLUE FLY - Project first originated in 1961 as part of the Foreign Technology Division project activities to "exploit," when possible, enemy materials. There are actually three (3) projects as follows:

BLUE FLY - Exploit Soviet hardware when it comes, more or less, permanently into US or allied hands.

ROUND ROBIN - Exploit Soviet hardware when it comes temporarily into US hands (e.g. Russian aircraft landing at international or US airfields.)

MOON DUST - Exploit big booster or missile and satellite equipment which fall from the air, hence the name applied (e.g. the piece of Soviet equipment which fell into Wisconsin.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even this reference isn't correct - I have another source (ATIC/FTD) that says BLUE FLY existed in 1954 (possibly earlier...). Info will be available on blog as I get it.

More info on BLUE FLY from old ATIC documents:

hiddenholloman.blogspot.com...

www.scribd.com...

www.scribd.com...