Kyoto Myth has Failed

EUROPE'S efforts to meet its Kyoto protocol targets for greenhouse gas emissions are heading for trouble after Germany, the driving force behind the continent's emissions reductions for the past 15 years, slammed on the brakes.

www.newscientist.com...

Even the EU is beginning to deal with the reality that Kyoto was pure insanity. I prase Bush 43 for laughing at the lack of science in the "treaty". Kyoto was based on junk science.

american government think they will one day control the weather, so they do what ever they want to.

you have to wonder how much of the stuff that is said to be global warming is stuff to do with weather control technologies messing around with what they do not reall fully understand.

people speculate the america has been messing around with the weather since at least the last 50 years.

plus the fact the american corporations will not allow such treaties, so it no chance in the real world like you say, american population would never knowingly give up some of there lifestyle, as americans use most of the worlds energy thats generated.

IMO, it's better to try and fail, than to bury your head in the sand.

Originally posted by andy1033
american government think they will one day control the weather, so they do what ever they want to.

you have to wonder how much of the stuff that is said to be global warming is stuff to do with weather control technologies messing around with what they do not reall fully understand.

people speculate the america has been messing around with the weather since at least the last 50 years.

plus the fact the american corporations will not allow such treaties, so it no chance in the real world like you say, american population would never knowingly give up some of there lifestyle, as americans use most of the worlds energy thats generated.

Errr, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the US. The EU has failed to meet its goals.........."duh"

Originally posted by thermopolis

EUROPE'S efforts to meet its Kyoto protocol targets for greenhouse gas emissions are heading for trouble after Germany, the driving force behind the continent's emissions reductions for the past 15 years, slammed on the brakes.

www.newscientist.com...

Even the EU is beginning to deal with the reality that Kyoto was pure insanity. I prase Bush 43 for laughing at the lack of science in the "treaty". Kyoto was based on junk science.

Are you therefore saying that global warming is not happening? Because if you are, there's a very long list of angry scientists that want to have a little word with you. Bush's failure to accept global warming has been catastrophic.

Originally posted by andy1033
american government think they will one day control the weather, so they do what ever they want to.

you have to wonder how much of the stuff that is said to be global warming is stuff to do with weather control technologies messing around with what they do not reall fully understand.

people speculate the america has been messing around with the weather since at least the last 50 years.

plus the fact the american corporations will not allow such treaties, so it no chance in the real world like you say, american population would never knowingly give up some of there lifestyle, as americans use most of the worlds energy thats generated.

Note to mods:
Just like to make a formal point of fact that this post has now left the topic of the success/failure of Kyoto and has turned to US bashing.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by hogtie]

Originally posted by Darkmind
Are you therefore saying that global warming is not happening? Because if you are, there's a very long list of angry scientists that want to have a little word with you. Bush's failure to accept global warming has been catastrophic.

No, global warming is real. I am one of those angry scientist. My research to date indicates 90% of GW is outside mankinds influence. Solar, Volcanic, etc. Man does affect local weather with large city "heat islands", electrical generator cooling stacks. Man himself with just breathing causes more SOx and NOx and CO2 than automobiles...........Global warming is NOT manmade but it is man "aided"

[edit on 7-7-2006 by thermopolis]

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by Darkmind
Are you therefore saying that global warming is not happening? Because if you are, there's a very long list of angry scientists that want to have a little word with you. Bush's failure to accept global warming has been catastrophic.

No, global warming is real. I am one of those angry scientist. My research to data indicates 90% of GW is outside mankinds influence. Solar, Volcanic, etc. Man does affect local weather with large city "heat islands", electrical generator cooling stacks. Man himself with just breathing causes more SOx and NOx and CO2 than automobiles...........Global warming is NOT manmade but it is man "aided"

Thanks for that. I'm by no means scientifically trained, but I have always followed what you propse as the most likely reasons. I've also been learning the difference between the study of invronmental impact and the study of causation. I had always assumed that the two went hand in hand, and didn't realize that a lot of scientists were only trained to study impact. Is this correct?

Originally posted by hogtie
Thanks for that. I'm by no means scientifically trained, but I have always followed what you propse as the most likely reasons. I've also been learning the difference between the study of invronmental impact and the study of causation. I had always assumed that the two went hand in hand, and didn't realize that a lot of scientists were only trained to study impact. Is this correct?

Sorry it took so long to reply.

It is easy to scientifically measure changes, the challenge is to find the source. We have such a small data sample. Much theory, little fact.......

Originally posted by thermopolis
Kyoto Myth has Failed

This article says nothing of failure to meet Kyoto targets.

Germany has cut its emissions by 17.5 per cent.
Its Kyoto target is a 21 per cent cut.

The environment ministry revealed that it would only require a further 0.6 per cent cut from its major industrial emitters between now and 2010.
The government is now putting the rest of the GHG cuts onto the individual instead of industry.
This is why Europe’s efforts to meet its Kyoto protocol targets “heading for trouble.”
Similar things are happening in my country too. We have this program called The One-Tonne Challenge. This is a challenge for individuals to reduce their carbon dioxide emissions by one ton or more in a year. But because my government has been so slack on regulating industries emissions, individuals would have to take a 6 tonne challenge to meet Kyoto targets,
This way, politicians don’t have to worry about upsetting their campaign contributors.

I prase Bush 43 for laughing at the lack of science in the "treaty".

Bush had nothing to do with it and doesn't understand science anyway. It was the congress, under clinton, and since then, that has chosen to not ratify the treaty.

My research to date indicates 90% of GW is outside mankinds influence

Please explain further.

Kyoto was about air taxes, not about the environment. the EU is a sucker for taxes and doesn't intend to keep promises (or respect treaties for that matter), so why not take a political cheapshot at the US for free?


PS:The EU was apprently designed to fail and is right on schedule in this regard.

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by andy1033
american government think they will one day control the weather, so they do what ever they want to.

you have to wonder how much of the stuff that is said to be global warming is stuff to do with weather control technologies messing around with what they do not reall fully understand.

people speculate the america has been messing around with the weather since at least the last 50 years.

plus the fact the american corporations will not allow such treaties, so it no chance in the real world like you say, american population would never knowingly give up some of there lifestyle, as americans use most of the worlds energy thats generated.

Errr, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the US. The EU has failed to meet its goals.........."duh"

do not american corporations have power in europe. i think they do. so you cannot say that america has no influence in europe and vice versa.

Originally posted by Nygdan

I prase Bush 43 for laughing at the lack of science in the "treaty".

Bush had nothing to do with it and doesn't understand science anyway. It was the congress, under clinton, and since then, that has chosen to not ratify the treaty.

Nygdan,
Actually, the Senate is the body that ratifies things such as Kyoto. You may be surprised to learn that the Kyoto treaty was never even submitted to the Senate.

Clinton paid lip service to the environment, knowing full well he would never back it up. It raised his stature in the world, just him saying a few words that he obviously never meant, and set up the next president for a big fall in the eyes of the world when the reality of the situation that Clinton created finally came home to roost.

I too applaud Bush for facing this reality - the Senate is never going to ratify Kyoto. Another reality he faced, and properly, I must add, is pulling out of an Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty that we had entered into with another country which no longer even exists today!

BTW, last I heard, only one signatory to Kyoto is on track to meet their target for this year. I believe it was Great Britain.

Harte

More likely that everyone other than America is asking themselves "why are we spending a fortune reducing emissions when America -- who are the biggest emitters -- can't be bothered. Sod it, I am not doing it anymore either."

Originally posted by CarlosG
More likely that everyone other than America is asking themselves "why are we spending a fortune reducing emissions when America -- who are the biggest emitters -- can't be bothered. Sod it, I am not doing it anymore either."

You might have a different attitude, but for geographical circumstance.

I've lived in counties that were larger than England. When you are in a position to ride a bicycle to several destinations, each with a different language and culture, then you cannot characterize "cutting back on your emissions" as anything like a sacrifice. The capability of bicycling into multiple areas where different passports are required should exempt some Europeans from the argument completely.

Harte

[edit on 7/8/2006 by Harte]

Originally posted by Harte
I've lived in counties that were larger than England. When you are in a position to ride a bicycle to several destinations, each with a different language and culture

Well, here's a little bit of education about the united kingdom.

The United kingdom consists of four countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The population of the whole of the UK is approximately 60 Million and there are over 300 different languages spoke in London alone!

The Main languages are:

1 Welsh
2 Gaelic (Scottish)
3 Gaelic (Irish)
4 Scots
5 Ulster Scots
6: Modern Cornish
7 Unified Cornish
8 Common Cornish
plus many different Native Celtic languages

Contrary to the hollywood view of the UK each part of the UK has completely Unique cultures. In other words there a lot more to the UK than just London!

Alternatively you can get on your bike and peddle down to the channel tunnel and before even getting on the Train your in France. Peddle onto the train and without getting off the bike your on the other side and from there you can peddle your way across Europe, Africa and Asia. You could even at the right time of year peddle your way down into North and South America.

Originally posted by arnold_vosloo

Originally posted by Harte
I've lived in counties that were larger than England. When you are in a position to ride a bicycle to several destinations, each with a different language and culture

Well, here's a little bit of education about the united kingdom.

The United kingdom consists of four countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The population of the whole of the UK is approximately 60 Million and there are over 300 different languages spoke in London alone!

Of course, I already knew this about the UK. I have never lived in a county the size of the UK, this is why I said England.

Originally posted by arnold_voslooContrary to the hollywood view of the UK each part of the UK has completely Unique cultures. In other words there a lot more to the UK than just London!

As long as you assume Americans are blissfully ignorant of the outside world (and of pretty much everything else,) you'll rarely be wrong.

Originally posted by arnold_voslooAlternatively you can get on your bike and peddle down to the channel tunnel and before even getting on the Train your in France. Peddle onto the train and without getting off the bike your on the other side and from there you can peddle your way across Europe, Africa and Asia. You could even at the right time of year peddle your way down into North and South America.

From England, you can also peddle northward to areas with a different culture. Try that from St. Louis.

The point of the bicycle statements was that what is a commute for (some) Europeans is just a jaunt around the neighborhood for most Americans. Conversely, the commute to work for a great many Americans is comparable to the distance traveled for a fortnight holiday for a great many Europeans.

IMO, the U.S. should take a lesson from France and begin a rigorous program of Nuclear energy generation. That's about all the good I can say about France.

Harte

Originally posted by Nygdan

I prase Bush 43 for laughing at the lack of science in the "treaty".

Bush had nothing to do with it and doesn't understand science anyway. It was the congress, under clinton, and since then, that has chosen to not ratify the treaty.

My research to date indicates 90% of GW is outside mankinds influence

Please explain further.

Largest GW problem.........the evil sun.
Next water vapor (clouds)
Gases from man.......very, very small percentage

Example.....methane.......emitted by trees and animals in massive quantities

Originally posted by thermopolis

Largest GW problem.........the evil sun.
Next water vapor (clouds)
Gases from man.......very, very small percentage

Example.....methane.......emitted by trees and animals in massive quantities

Seems I heard that volcanic eruptions are a large contributer to GW when they happen, example being Pinatubo,s eruption in the Philipines