Furture of Robotics

Pre-Intro
Myself and others included believe by the year 2010 that all purpose robots should be availble for common house hold jobs. Car makers like Honda & Toyota will lead the way.....

Aymara
Many of you may have heard of the ancient language Aymara. If not I suggest you read it here Wikipedia: Aymara . This language is very different from any other language mostly because the way they speak of time. But that is not the point of my "paper".

The Aymara language believes there is Fact(Truth), Fiction(False) and The Unknown...keep this in mind.

Soon to be..
I'm not sure how many people have heard of three-dimensional molecular circuits? but for example One cubic inch of nanotube circuitry would be 100 million times more powerful than the human brain. (Google for further information)

Bind that with robotics. You have a robot with basically unlimited memory...now bind the Aymara language with robotics and nanotube technology...You have a robot with the ability to reason (if programmed with every situation thought possible) the ability to make its own decisions and its own inventions.

I mentioned the language because of its three variable belief system.. Fact/fiction/unknown..

For example if the robot hadn’t came across a certain situation before or the situation wasn’t prior programmed. The robot could look at FACT & FICTION allowing it to judge the unknown (since the unknown can only be judged, by humans and animals alike)

More Shocking
Three dimensional printers. (Google it) are not far from present. Just think if robots came equip with them.. Then if something breaks it would be able to make a custom fitted part. Which would ultimately be an Invention from the robots OWN reasoning.

I think this technology will be availble for use very soon..with the nxt 20 years

Conclusion
This is just something I've been pondering about for awhile now.. Be sure to share your comments.



WORD TO THE MODS.. (this is my orginal writing the same as the Santanic Cult post)..bastards




[edit on 4-7-2006 by D15t0rT]

This is a really interesting post. It brings to mind thoughts I had about five years ago, about the potential for trinary programming languages (-1, 0, 1) - and in essence, (no, maybe, yes), which would allow for much more complicated strings, and hugely enhanced capabilities.

I hadn't heard of that language before, but I'll have to look into it.

Edit: another thing to consider, power sources. If you're going to require a power source with high capaciity, and very steady output, you're in the same boat as the military researchers who have a whole host of nifty new energy weapons, and no good way to power them. I did a research post on this a while back, I'll see if I can find it.

Too bad you lost whatever respect I might have had for you by calling me a bastard before you even knew me.



[edit on 5-7-2006 by WyrdeOne]

Thanks for the reply and the WARNING.

I'd enjoy more comments about this

Originally posted by D15t0rT


More Shocking
Three dimensional printers. (Google it) are not far from present. Just think if robots came equip with them.. Then if something breaks it would be able to make a custom fitted part. Which would ultimately be an Invention from the robots OWN reasoning.

Thats not near future 3D printers are the present. They already have them and they can now print both plastic and metal.

link

You can already pay to have your designs printed out in 3-D or even buy one yourself but these machines are really really expensive 30-100K though some predict 1k 3-d printers are in the future

www.wohlersassociates.com...

[edit on 5-7-2006 by ShadowXIX]

errmmm I thought they would of made use of boolean logic and logic gates such as these. Its alot like that.

and, Xor,etc...

Hmm..

can those printers print using polymers? or using the actual material?

Hey, noticed this thread, I'm in robotics engineering, so I'll feel right at home here.

Interesting thoughts...

Personally, I don't think we're ever going to use the human form as a robot in a feasable environment. The human form is far too inefficient.
A four legged system with 1 to 2 arms I can see being used for rough environments, but wheels and treads are going to continue to be the standard.

One thing I find the standard wandering towards is higher torque, more efficient servo motors. Made smaller, lighter, and cheaper. This is what the robotics world really needs right now.

Why? Becuase the only thing holding the Bio-mechanical world back, is the shere weight and power required of a robotic arm. If we can make them more efficient, the human body could one day power the system without having to use a huge power supply.

Another step in the right direction is a mouldable battery. Something that can hold a good charge, and can be re-shaped to fit anywhere. Think of a playdough battery, sounds stupid, but it would really help in our field.


Outside of that, we also need to fine tune our electro-magnetic sensors. We need a verison that can read electrical impulses of the body more accurately. This would serve as a much better control system for scenarios where programming simply wont hack it, as the purpose changes too rapidly.


Remote power sources would be nice, but thats a dream.



My predictions. As robotics becomes more standard, companies will start selling pre-assembled systems, like pre-assembled, mountable chasis, arms, sensor arrays, etc... much the same way computer parts are now pre-assmebled (power supply, mainboard, sound card,video card... etc...).

I can see machines using non-defined logic to determine how to acheive their goals in the near future, but it won't become mainstream for at least 10 years.

Servo-motors are only going to get more efficient... thats simply due to economic competition of the companies making them.

Power supplies have to get better. You cant imagine how frustrated we get with the shere weight and size of batteries. Take a robotic wheelchair for example, 60% of its weight is the damn battery. Luckily it fits neatly under the seat, not the case for other high powered systems. Most of which you have to design around the battery, which can be very limited.

What abot fuel Cell Technology & Ozimo?

Neither are related but..fuel cell is powder burned fuel and ozimo has 2 legs and 2 arms and works well.

Originally posted by johnsky


Personally, I don't think we're ever going to use the human form as a robot in a feasable environment. The human form is far too inefficient.
A four legged system with 1 to 2 arms I can see being used for rough environments, but wheels and treads are going to continue to be the standard.

With exception of the human hand I couldnt agree more the human design isnt really that good even compared to other biological on earth let alone pure robotic shapes that share no design features with and organic lifeform.

I really dont know why Japan is so set on the human design when there are so many better designs out there. Pretty much the whole insect world for example.

The only real use I can see is for machines that are required to have close human interactions on a regular basis. In those case the human shape is easier to relate too.

I mean if you had your pick of a humanoid robot bringing you your daily meds or a ginat robotic spider doing that same job what would you pick?

I once read about this thing called "analog." Maybe you've heard of it, it's a bit like digital, but instead of a signal or data stream being broken up into ones and zeros, it actually flows in a kind of continuum, with every small variation represented in the signal transmission. Basically an infinite parsing of data! And one of the great things about it is that it's compatible and understandible with most of our own, built-in sensory organs. No need for a lot of complicated encryption and decryption. So integration into a normal day is virtually seamless.

From what I understand, Nikola Tesla was working on a variety of analog transmitters and other devices before his death, but all of his plans were confiscated by government agents. Maybe someday we'll develop this groundbreaking new technology.

I think the real question is What about us?

Will humans accept these robots? will we have a choice?

I'm Not what you would consider a lazy bastard..but i'd love to have a robot do small task for me.

Originally posted by D15t0rT
Soon to be..
I'm not sure how many people have heard of three-dimensional molecular circuits? but for example One cubic inch of nanotube circuitry would be 100 million times more powerful than the human brain. (Google for further information)
[edit on 4-7-2006 by D15t0rT]

That right there is enough for me to be scared. I think it would be a great thing to have these robots, but reading that one sentence about nanotube technology kind of freaked me out. We always hear how much stronger our brains are than computers, but then there is a square inch of this stuff that is 100 million times stronger...that's ALOT.

So i guess 60 cubic inches would be smarter than the intelligence of every human being of the world put together? I may be using false logic, but I still see horrible potential when the wrong people get their hands on this stuff. I can also see a break-through for hacking coming along if this technology comes out.

Also, that 3D printer stuff is very interesting; had absolutely no idea that that was possible.

All in all, very interesting post! I did nothing but learn since I knew about...0% of what you posted. DENY IGNORANCE!

Originally posted by D15t0rT
Will humans accept these robots? will we have a choice?

We are a transitional species. We represent the transition of intelligent life from carbon-based to silicon-based. We won't even exist in our current form in a 1,000 years or less, so that makes our total time here on Earth pretty brief, once you think about it.

We will design and build intelligent, emotional, reproductive robots who will essentially be immortal, and we'll send them out to populate the galaxy, because we just aren't built for the trip.

Back here on Earth, we will genetically modify ourselves into many different, "non-human" forms. The only people who might stay the same will be religious freaks who believe we were "made in God's image," and won't want to mess with the template.

That is, it'll happen if we don't get slammed into by a big asteroid or something in the meantime. That'll slow us down a little, obviously.

Originally posted by D15t0rT

Aymara
Many of you may have heard of the ancient language Aymara. If not I suggest you read it here Wikipedia: Aymara . This language is very different from any other language mostly because the way they speak of time. But that is not the point of my "paper".

The Aymara language believes there is Fact(Truth), Fiction(False) and The Unknown...keep this in mind.

I read that wikipedia article and didn't see anything about it being based on true, false, unknown?

3D printers are pretty cool, but have a ways to come yet. I know someone who has one that prints polymer plastic. He does mostly mockup parts and prototypes for companies. Its cheaper and easier to print plastic, than cast or forge and then machine metal to get a real physical touchy feely idea of what you're going to make.

Originally posted by johnsky
Personally, I don't think we're ever going to use the human form as a robot in a feasible environment. The human form is far too inefficient.
A four legged system with 1 to 2 arms I can see being used for rough environments, but wheels and treads are going to continue to be the standard.

I disagree. And I think thats a pretty closed minded point of view for a robotics engineer.

A big reason why the majority of robots these days use wheels/tracks, Is because 2 legs is much harder and more expensive to do. As that becomes less and less of a hurdle, there will be an increase of humanoid looking robots.
The modern world is built by us, for us. everything is built with people in mind. Whether that be the height of a doorway, or the steepness of a staircase.


BTW, D15t0rT, Its asimo not ozimo.

Enkidu
We will design and build intelligent, emotional, reproductive robots who will essentially be immortal, and we'll send them out to populate the galaxy, because we just aren't built for the trip.

wow...your so far out I dont think you can even see the box.

I think we will still exist in 1,000 years...we will be much smarter, and live much much longer.....I simply dont think people are going to build robots that can reproduce and send them throughout the galaxy.

Weren’t built for the trip????? We cant run very fast...so we built cars...cars weren't fast enough so we built planes. I see this trend to continue for a very long time to come. It only a matter of time before we get the sonic boom licked, then there will be a large infusion of supersonic travel.

As for faster methods...like going to planets in different solar systems....We currently have no fast method of doing this...but there’s not a lack of concepts. Solar sails have a theoretical top speed of 1/10 the speed of light. And according to Einstein we cant go the Speed of light or go faster then the speed of light. But a future possibility is wormholes. What I'm getting at is, just because we cant do it now...doesn't mean we wont do it later.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by Murcielago]

Originally posted by Murcielago


A big reason why the majority of robots these days use wheels/tracks, Is because 2 legs is much harder and more expensive to do. As that becomes less and less of a hurdle, there will be an increase of humanoid looking robots.
The modern world is built by us, for us. everything is built with people in mind. Whether that be the height of a doorway, or the steepness of a staircase.

The world (land since the vast majority of earth is built for water based life) is clearly built for legged creatures but not per se humans, Insects can go places humans could only dream of without machines. Spiders and insects designs just blow humanoid designs away. Humans have great hands and big brains everything eles nature has done and done much better.

Hexapods for example are so much more agile and quick then any comparative biped. Machines need not be confined to human sized they could easily be made a tenth the size of humans and if it was a good insect design it could go anywhere humans could go and then some.

Future robots could very well be able to change their shape to whatever task is at hand. They have to fit through a pipe it will - take on a snake shape, needs to climb a wall- take on a spider shape needs to cruise on a road - takes on wheels


IMO the best machines in the future will be both Man and Machine. Some things humans do very well others machines do very well.

3456 x 47 = ? any dollar store calculator can figure that out in a fraction of a second. Humans on the other hand not so easy for the vast majority of us.

Now tell a 5 year old human child this symbol (F) stands for the letter F. Now you can show a child any number of differnt fonts, sizes, colors and styles of the letter F and they will still reconize that meaning the same letter. The best machines cant match that right now.

Machines no matter how many cycles per second or how much memory they have could never be able to think in the abstract or think creatively.

Chances are their will always be things both can do better then the other and thus a merger of the best of both sides may be the way to go.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Overlook my minor spelling mistakes...I have forth grade "Englush"

Originally posted by warpboost
I read that wikipedia article and didn't see anything about it being based on true, false, unknown?

Yeah, wikipedia dont do justice for the Aymaran lauguage.

Originally posted by Murcielago
BTW, D15t0rT, Its asimo not ozimo.

Thanks murc for the proper name drop.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Now tell a 5 year old human child this symbol (F) stands for the letter F. Now you can show a child any number of differnt fonts, sizes, colors and styles of the letter F and they will still reconize that meaning the same letter. The best machines cant match that right now.

Damn, Very valid point..I have never even thought about that at all...

Originally posted by Enkidu
We are a transitional species. We represent the transition of intelligent life from carbon-based to silicon-based. We won't even exist in our current form in a 1,000 years or less

Consider this: I believe pretty soon that chip injections will be given at birth with or without a parents consent. Thats cyborg technology in its simplest form. This will cause a problem with parents of a simple conventional birth..they will fight this. Now.. jump ahead 300 or less years. You will have humans (chip and upgrade free) Hybrids (simple things such as locater chips, heart monitors or maybe even muscle growth enhancements) and then full own cyborgs...it will be like it is today. except it will be battle among TYPE not races.

Originally posted by Omniscient
All in all, very interesting post! I did nothing but learn since I knew about...0% of what you posted. DENY IGNORANCE!

THANKS!, stay tuned... I think this subject is about to get heavy...


[edit on 6-7-2006 by D15t0rT]

Originally posted by D15t0rT

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Now tell a 5 year old human child this symbol (F) stands for the letter F. Now you can show a child any number of differnt fonts, sizes, colors and styles of the letter F and they will still reconize that meaning the same letter. The best machines cant match that right now.

Damn, Very valid point..I have never even thought about that at all...

Thats why when you sign up for websites and forums they often have those confirmation letter and numbers that are different colors and distorted shapes you have to type. Computer programs cant make sense of that like humans can so they know its not some spam bot signing up.

Not to say machines wont ever be able to do that but such task that involve thinking in ways like that could be a problem for future machines. I dont know if pure machines will ever be able to compose great art or music like a Beethoven or Davinci even if they have a million times the raw brain power. Though I bet they could copy any work they did with ease then.

But its hard to say some super programer could prove me wrong.

Computer driven Overlays for the human eye arent far from present. I dont see why a computer couldnt scan a "dist0rted" letter and decypher it.

Computers cant do that yet they are just not good at that type of task no matter how advanced at present.

They can tell what you program them to identify as say the letter (F) but if a symbol does not fit your predefined description of what that symbol should look like the computer cant make that leap to indentify a radically different style shape or color as the same letter (F) even though thats a rather simple task for the human brain.

The best machines on the planet cant use concepts and understand generalizations, such as of the properties or pattern shared by a variety of specific items or events in a abstract way.

conceptualization in such ways could be very hard if not impossible for future A.I.