The Winged Horses And The Spaceship

Welcome to the ATS Skunk Works!

The title of this thread is translated as "The Winged Horses And The Spaceship". It is dedicated to design theory, emperical study, and fiscal analysis toward the ultimate goal of a fully realized personal transport system in the Earth's atmosphere.

Contributors are invited to post their findings and collaboration is encouraged by me to find the optimum means to complete the beginning phase of this project. At times the math may get heavy, so please feel free to ask questions.

It is my vision that this thread becomes legendary, and those who work on it are rewarded with an opportunity of a lifetime, thusly:

"High Flight"

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

űrhajó

mod edit to use external quote code, please review this link

[edit on 3-7-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]


Mod Edit: to change title as ATS only allows English on this site.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Matyas
It is dedicated to design theory, emperical study, and fiscal analysis toward the ultimate goal of a fully realized personal transport system in the Earth's atmosphere.

I'm a bit confused...

So do you mean like a light plane? Because we have those down to just about an exact science, as we have for many, many years... Or do you mean some sort of futuristic technology, like jet packs, flying cars, etc?

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid...Or do you mean some sort of futuristic technology, like jet packs, flying cars, etc?

Thank you for clarifying that. The second part, like one of these here

Link is not working for me...


Okay so I see you went ahead and did it By the way if we are going to build it, where is the garage?

Originally posted by zorgon Link is not working for me

Does here. Server problems I guess. Everything has to be routed through Crystal Place.

Okay so I see you went ahead and did it

By the way if we are going to build it, where is the garage?

Here is the plan. Theory>Design>Paper>Proposal>Funding>Garage

Unless you know a better route

Originally posted by Matyas..Crystal Place.

Talk about a spelling downgrade! I meant Palace, but how the desserts are just! I'll leave it there.

There is going to be the issue about operating in a fishbowl, but it comes with advantages too. Think how much can be accomplished with popular culture on our side, and we give the disinfo agencies a good excuse to name that UFO-

"Look! Up in the sky! Its one of those flying saucers! Do you think it is a UFO?"

"Nah. Its just the ATS guys testing one of their prototypes..."

Originally posted by Matyas
Here is the plan. Theory>Design>Paper>Proposal>Funding>Garage
Unless you know a better route

The route is good. It was a round about way of asking what neck of the woods you are in

You have mail. I found that article on Herman Oberth, but its a big pdf so I sent it direct

Okay as to theory... are we going to explore many, or do you have one in particular ready to focus on?

I have 10 gigs of website space to use if we need a forum that we have control over.

Originally posted by Matyas
issue about operating in a fishbowl

True the fringe people will surely come out in droves, but your right, we are already labeled as consiracy nuts so they won't pay any attention. Besides were here in the basement again. It will be a good place to run out some pet theories though, see what sticks and what gets shot down.

Since I came in here with my Stargate theory I have gotten so much info on existing projects that would have taken me years to catch up on.

Originally posted by zorgon...I have 10 gigs of website space to use if we need a forum that we have control over.

Yes, I think it would be a good backup. We copy this thread onto your website, and if in case DHS or even ATS shut us down we could continue uninterrupted.

But as I said before, being in the public eye will draw attention, the good and the bad. I am hoping we will have enough of the good before being shut down

Doh! I forgot the ex tag! Thank you DontTreadOnMe! Of curious anecdote I was playing around with slogans just before starting the thread. The one I came up with was Don't Shoot At Me!

Zorgon, let's do some more invitin'! I have contacts that would be interested and would definately stand to benefit from this!

Okay lets launch this properly then...
Any champagne?

The following quotes are from a paper discussing Electric Propulsion by the three pioneers of Rocket Science... back in the 1920's. I post it here as a reference and a Historical starting point for discussion here.

alfven.princeton.edu..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">SOURCE
A Critical History of Electric Propulsion: The First 50 Years (1906–1956)
by E. Y. Choueiri
Electric Propulsion and Plasma Dynamics Laboratory,
Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey 08544

Konstantin Eduardovitch Tsiolkovsky (1857–1935)

It is difficult to think who in aerospace history, perhaps even in the
history of modern science and technology, embodies the quintessential
qualities of the archetypical visionary more than Konstantin Eduardovitch
Tsiolkovsky [6] (1857–1935). It is also difficult to find a more vivid encapsulation of the essence of visionary work than his own words:
"This work of mine is far from considering all of the aspects of the
problem and does not solve any of the practical problems associated
with its realization; however, in the distant future, looking
through the fog, I can see prospects which are so intriguing and
important it is doubtful that anyone dreams of them today."

Robert Hutchings Goddard (1882–1945)

He acknowledged that EP was at present a dream, and his attention
was to be dedicated to more prosaic problems. This is illustrated
vividly in the following quote from 1924 (by which time the nature
of positively charged atoms had been known, the proton had been
discovered, and he had recognized the better suitability of ions to
propulsion) (Ref. 8, p. 222):
"It is quite probable that electrons and ions can be used, i.e. cathode
and especially anode rays. The force of electricity is unlimited and
can, therefore, produce a powerful flux of ionized helium to serve
a spaceship. However, we shall leave these dreams for a while and
return to our prosaic explosives."

Hermann Julius Oberth (1894–1989)

Just as no overview of astronautics and modern rocketry could
be complete without a discussion of the work of Hermann Julius
Oberth (1894–1989), any descriptions of the dawn of EP would
be glaringly wanting without an account of his role in bringing the
concept of EP into the limelight. To exaggerate only a little the
procreational similes often used to describe the “fathers” of rocketry
[32], we could say that if Oberth is now recognized as a father
for rocketry and astronautics he should be lauded as a midwife
for electric propulsion. We say so because Oberth’s major contribution,
as far as EP is concerned, was not in having developed
specific inventions, or having undertaken technically rich conceptualizations,
but rather in having defined, for the first time publicly
and unambiguously, EP as a serious and worthy pursuit in astronautics.
If the field of electric propulsion is not indebted to Oberth
for a lasting technical contribution, it can trace its conceptual origin
as a discipline to the last chapter of his all-time astronautics
classic Wege zur Raumschiffahrt25 (Ways to Spaceflight) published
in 1929. Oberth devoted that whole chapter, titled “Das elektrische
Raumschiff” (“The Electric Spaceship”), to spacecraft power and
EP. In that chapter he extolled the mass-savings capabilities of EP,
predicts its future role in propulsion and attitude control outside the
atmosphere, and advocated electrostatic acceleration of electrically
charged gases, which can be created from refuse on the orbiting
space station that is a major theme of the book.

[edit on 3-7-2006 by zorgon]

Visitors take your crash course on electrogravitics here

Here we have a very wonderful working model of a

high power helicon is a state of the art electrodeless plasma thruster. This mean that issues associated with erosion of electrode by the plasma is eliminated. The plasma itself is generated by high power radio frequency waves that allow substantial felixbility in operational characteristics. it is also very much small than other plasma thruster, which adds to to versatility.

Wonder how much it would set back the budget to pick up a couple of these?


That electrogravitic link you posted is sensored in China

No we must be on to something here

[edit on 3-7-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon...Wonder how much it would set back the budget to pick up a couple of these?

This one? You better believe $$!

Glad to be here and look forward to seeing what is revealed.

-=v=-

Thanks I forgot to add that link to my qoute. Yup that's the one.

Did you know the Russians are getting with the program? Found this little paper tucked into an old brief case

Russian Academy of Science

Seems they have improved on John Searl's design


[edit on 3-7-2006 by zorgon]

I think the HPH would be good to use in space for attitude control. I see that is 1000 times more efficient and powerful than chemical systems. I don't know how it would fare using Earth's atmosphere as a propellant. This is one to look into further as I don't know how wide the applications are.

HEY guys!! would love to get involved..

been trying to find a link between Tesla.John searl and John Hutchinson,s experiments for a few years now.. I don,t pretend to understand the mathematics but neither do they it seems

All have one thing in common..Arrested/threatened defamed and denied even though they gave demonstrations..albeit inconsistent.

Soooo into the belief that electromagnetism is the key to free energy/anti-gravity

If you need an insomniac to bounce some ideas off gimme a shout

Welcome aboard

Yes I noticed that arrest/disappear thingy myself. Disturbing to say the least...
You know its funny. We keep picking on the Russians, but they are running passenger flights into space[albiet for a horendous capatalistic price], making deals for Pizza Hut space pizza's and Lego alien toys for the ISS, and embracing this electromagnetic theory [and others]

Yet NASA can't even keep the foam on their rockets

This is NOT a good trend folkes...

Originally posted by AGENT_T HEY guys!! would love to get involved..

Welcome aboard AGENT_T! The more the merrier. I am leaning primarly towards Tesla because he was the first to experiment with the Earth's resources to produce the effects he was looking for, as with earthquakes and the TMT.

I think it is possible to shrink the power supply a la Tesla by tapping the electrostatic potential between the ionosphere and Earth. Think giant capacitor to help pump a Tesla transformer. Do we have any takers for math and a schematic for this idea?

Here is a link to explore for some more ideas.

Borderland Sciences

And don't forget my oldtime favorite,

Rex Research !