U.S. Troops Accused Of Killing Iraq Family

Originally posted by Swatman
whoever doesnt support their own troops is supporting the New York times which in my opinion means you support terrorism

Don't post in one topic and start trouble that has been discussed in another that is just bad business. By the way I'm guessing everyone in this country supports their troops, because they want them to comeback home saf, but if u support the war blindly u are supporting the bush adminstration which is infact supporting terrorism.

Originally posted by denveralex
Alright first off I am a Soldier in Iraq at this moment, and seeing people post # like this about us pisses me off more then you could ever know! I work with Iraqis on a daily basis, and the majority of them love us! I am a medic over here, and let me tell you another thing we save alot of there lives on a daily Basis, the reason they need to be saved because people either from another country or there own people decide to blow themselves up or set off other explosives. The Iraqis don't want us to leave, because we do keep them safe. Yes there is a small percentage of soldiers who do things that are horrible and I can tell you that everytime soldiers hear about things like this over here we are disgusted and pissed off because not only are they hurting the people we are here to help they are hurting the war effort back home by making us look bad, and making us look like we aren't doing our job, when in fact we are doing our job and doing a damn fine job of it. The great majority of Soldiers perform there duties over here with honor. Iraq is becomming a safer place and we see it everyday. Also let it be known the the Iraq you see is not the Iraq that exsists, and you can blame the media for this. Iraq is not nearly as bad as the media portrays it to be. If the media were to show any of the good news going on here you might change your mind about the war over here. but nooo. we are the bad guys to media and they say we shouldn't be here... when in fact being here is the right thing to do, and always has been!

Which Iraqi's do you work with - Shia, Sunni or Kurd?

Which Iraq's do not want you to leave - Shia, Sunni or Kurd?

So what exactly happens when US Soldiers to these Horrible things, that this topic is all about? What do you with these men, that make USA and Coalition troops look like mindless murderes and rapists?

How do you feel about the Haditha massacre and why have the Marines responsible for it, not been charged with Anything yet? Do you honestly think, that the USArmy will make a Fair trial against those soldiers? Why should they, since a Fair trial could bring more outrage then right now, when we do not know the details?

I do not know which media you been watching, but it looks to me, that the majority of Corporate owned mass media in the States fully supports Your efforts in Iraq. Actually mass-media just earns money off stories - and the baddest they are, the more they are interested; so naturally they will print a big headline with the title of this thread for it.

But OKEY - you claim Iraqi is a Safer place right?

Safer then When?

Iraq has become the most dangours country in the world - alongside with Baghdad the most dangerous capital on the planet.

Just few days ago there was a big car-bomb attack that killed 66 people and wounded several others.

Since the so-called END of the War in Iraq, there have been Alot of Civilan, American and Coalition casualties - definetly alot more then during the process of Invasion.

Since the start of Bush led War on Terrorism this entire World has become a more dangerous place with "Phantom Terrorists" popping from everywhere. Why is that?

You say it is the right thing to do and always has been to "Liberate Iraq";

But I think it is the Right thing to Liberate Sudan or Somalia or Congo or Nigeria.

Will those Countries Ever get Liberated too?

Or will just the people of Middle East get the taste of "Freedom, Liberty and Justice for alll..."?

Well I understand you - you are a soldier in the US Army, you are supposed to think like that and I have nothing agaist you or your fellow solders. It is your job and ofcourse you have to protect your employee. So please do not think this as an attack upon you - but more as an debate about the meaning of War and how it effects the world around it.

[edit on 3/7/06 by Souljah]

I've read this thread and given it a lot of thought. First of all, there are honorable soldiers who have served bravely and forthrightly. They are to be commended. However, we know that in times of battle, there are always those who do go awry and commit terrible acts. In considering this, I would like to ask these questions:

1)How did the young schoolteacher's family (the survivors) respond to her rape and murder, as well as the murders of the three other family members? What was their response to what the soldiers did? How did the top brass of the military respond to the survivors of this tragic affair?

2)What do the good soldiers do to potentially stop troubled comrades who might be prone to these acts of violence? Or are they silent and complicit when their brothers in arms commit these heinous acts against civilians?

3)If more of the soldiers get prosecuted for these atrocities against civilians do the military ever think how badly their style of "liberation" might look to the rest of the world?

4)Killing and raping civilians aren't obviously part of the mission. As more of these stories come out, how can you say what the mission truly is? Who is actually running things over there? If the bad soldiers are spending their time disobeying their CO's by killing civilians, how can you win the heart and minds of the Iraqi people now? This latest incident has to do with a family's honor.

5)How do soldiers reign in their sexual impulses in Iraq? Now that the Shia are in control, the women are in burkas and forced to cover up. Thus, womens' rights are conjunct with Shariya law. How do we know whether there hasn't been any other rapes that have come to surface from over there? After all, in the past, there have always been stories of soldiers fathering children with civilian women during wartime. And I would be interested to see if there is a baby boom after the U.S. military departs.

6)What do the soldiers do to actually respect the culture, values and religion of the Iraqi citizens?


But I have to also agree with Souljah on his premise of "liberating" countries. If the U.S. countries are so interested in spreading their democracy elsewhere, why aren't they helping to end the cycle of poverty, violence and genocide that is happening in Sudan and other places in Africa? Throwing dollars at the problem by the U.S. government is not enough.

Why is it the select countries who have a lot of oil getting the United States' attention?




[edit on 3-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by denveralex

Originally posted by MacDonagh
Is it painful for you and your fellow comrades in the U.S. army to be tarred with the same brush, and thought to be guilty of killing families and stuff? Is this guilt by association?

Tell me how would you feel if someone you have never met or been associated with killed someone and all of a sudden people started cursing you out, calling you a murder, calling you a piece of # ect.? I joined the Army to serve my country which is more then half of you ever did. I risk my life on a daily basis so you can sleep in your beds everynight. I volenteered so you wouldn't be forced to fight. This is the thanks I get and other soldiers like I get?

I wouldn't be too happy if folk were making untrue accusations that I kill families and torture prisoners. Though I can see why you're angry, you're not fighting for me. I'm not an American.

Well now, a HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND U.S. troops in Iraq, give or take a few

And every now and again a couple of 'em commit a nasty, unacceptable crime right?

They rape, or murder......or should I say, are ALLEGED to have done so.....maybe even steal

And why is anyone surprised? Do you honestly think a random population of a HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND humans of ANY KIND will be absolutely free of crime?.....keeping in mind the conditions of war????

Possibly there are cities of a HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND people on this planet where there is not a single incidence of rape, theft, or murder, EVER! If you can show me where they are possibly I will move my family to such a safe and wonderul place.

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
Well now, a HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND U.S. troops in Iraq, give or take a few

And every now and again a couple of 'em commit a nasty, unacceptable crime right?

They rape, or murder......or should I say, are ALLEGED to have done so.....maybe even steal

And why is anyone surprised? Do you honestly think a random population of a HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND humans of ANY KIND will be absolutely free of crime?.....keeping in mind the conditions of war????

Possibly there are cities of a HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND people on this planet where there is not a single incidence of rape, theft, or murder, EVER! If you can show me where they are possibly I will move my family to such a safe and wonderul place.

Best point yet , and JSO way to keep it on an even keel.

Who would have thought that someone that liked to kill would have ended up in a place where they give you a gun? It boggles the mind... That being said, if he and the others alleged to be involved are guilty, then my brand of justice would not be to the liking of the ACLU. I might even put them somewhere worse than Gitmo.

And what are some of you thinking? Do you really believe that rape and murder is the kind of behavior the military wants? Yeah, lets inflame the populace so we can stay here even longer and put out the fires. The consequences of the actions of those soldiers (if they did it) will be felt on all the other soldiers there who don't rape and murder, like the two that were tortured and murdered recently.

Originally posted by hogtie
Do you really believe that rape and murder is the kind of behavior the military wants?

Interesting that this question comes from the member that has the last sentence of The War Prayer by Mark Twain on his avatar.

The War Prayer is an indictment against religion (or the call for almighty smiting) and about the sheep who clamor for what they don't know about. Notice it is civillians safe from harm and not soldiers, that the messenger from God appears to.



[edit on 3-7-2006 by hogtie]

Washington Post

As pretty as she was young, the girl had attracted the unwelcome attention of U.S. soldiers manning a checkpoint that the girl had to pass through almost daily in their village in the south-central city of Mahmudiyah, her mother told the neighbor.

Abeer told her mother again and again in her last days that the soldiers had made advances toward her, a neighbor, Omar Janabi, said this weekend, recounting a conversation he said he had with the girl's mother, Fakhriyah, on March 10

The attackers came to the girl's house the next day, apparently separating Abeer from her mother, father and young sister.

Before leaving, the attackers fatally shot the four family members -- two of Abeer's brothers had been away at school -- and attempted to set Abeer's body on fire, according to Janabi, another neighbor who spoke on condition of anonymity, the mayor of Mahmudiyah and a hospital administrator with knowledge of the case.

Preliminary information in the military investigation put the age of the alleged rape victim at 20, rather than 15, as reported by her neighbors, officials and hospital records and officials in Mahmudiyah.

Death certificates viewed Sunday at the Mahmudiyah hospital identified the victims as Fakhriyah Taha Muhsin, 34, killed by gunshots to her head; Qasim Hamza Raheem, 45, whose head was "smashed" by bullets; Hadeel Qasim Hamza, 7, Abeer's sister, shot; and Abeer, shot in the head. Abeer's body also showed burns, the death certificate noted.

"What is the benefit of publishing this story?" said Abeer's uncle, Bassem. "People will read about this crime. And they will forget about it the next day."

How True the last statement is;

Tomorrow nobody will know about this Attrocities anymore;

The US soldiers who did it will probably never be convicted - just like we do not hear about Haditha anymore; and people will forget about it and the only ones who will bear the scars of this are the Iraqi Civilans.

Where is Justice?

Where is Punishment?

[edit on 4/7/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by hogtie
The War Prayer is an indictment against religion (or the call for almighty smiting) and about the sheep who clamor for what they don't know about. Notice it is civillians safe from harm and not soldiers, that the messenger from God appears to.

You are a funny guy hogtie. I like you.

Now read it again please and apply the title of this thread on it.

Originally posted by yanchek

Now read it again please and apply the title of this thread on it.

The War Prayer is like the illusion where one person sees a candle stick, and another sees two faces.

Yes, the War Prayer applies in that where there is a nation with war fever they never fully grasp what they are asking for. The ones who are untried at war and the ones who do not have to go have yet to see the horror, so rah-rah-rah, on we go, lets blow # up! And to contradict that, to dissent, has consequences. But I'm not applying that to the thread. It is the signature on my avatar, and to me, the War Prayer holds the other meaning just as clearly. A soldier could have just as easily given the prayer as the Messenger did

I think a quote from MacArthur probably sums it up:
"This does not mean that you are war mongers.

On the contrary, the soldier, above all other people, prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.

But always in our ears ring the ominous words of Plato, that wisest of all philosophers: "Only the dead have seen the end of war."

Reuters

Iraq's prime minister called on Wednesday for an independent inquiry into the alleged rape and murder of a teenager and killing of her family by U.S. soldiers and a review of foreign troops' immunity from Iraqi law.

"Yes we will demand an independent Iraqi inquiry, or a joint investigation with Multinational Forces," Nuri al-Maliki told reporters during a visit to Kuwait, in his first public comments since the case came to light five days ago.

"We do not accept the violation of Iraqi people's honor as happened in this case. We believe that the immunity granted to international forces has emboldened them to commit such crimes and ... there must be a review of this immunity," he said.

If I remember correctly the same thing happened in Haditha case - well, did the Independant Iraq probe ever happen?

Will it happen this time?

Originally posted by Souljah
;

The US soldiers who did it will probably never be convicted - just like we do not hear about Haditha anymore; and people will forget about it and the only ones who will bear the scars of this are the Iraqi Civilans.

Where is Justice?

Where is Punishment?

[edit on 4/7/06 by Souljah]

Where is the topic?

Can you make a post without Haditha?

Originally posted by intrepid
Where is the topic?

Can you make a post without Haditha?

I think that Haditha is very much associated with this topic, since it is yet another atrocity commited by US troops in Iraq, which we will soon hear nothing about anymore.

Somebody has to keep people reminding that it Happened.

What happened? What? Did I miss something?

Originally posted by Souljah
Where is Justice?

Where is Punishment?

justice? i'd say there is none, was there ever or were we deluding ourselves at all times ?

The punishment looks pretty clear to me, though, it goes as follows: 0.01% psychopaths will return with bloodlust and enormous experience, they will promptly resume their work at home, be on the lookout for a significant rise similar crimes in the US in a few years. of course it's doubtful that the cheering warmongers will get the shaft, which means more innocent victims, yay.

PS: by living on this planet you signed a consent form that whatever happens, it's your fault, no deals not hearings, no excuses.

Are you saying Souljah that no troops have ever been charged in Iraq? That all of them have gotten away?

Asssociated Press

Four more U.S. soldiers have been charged with rape and murder and a fifth with dereliction of duty in the alleged rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya, the military said Sunday.

The five were accused Saturday following an investigation into allegations that American soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division raped the teenager and killed her and three relatives at her home south of Baghdad.

Ex-soldier Steven D. Green was arrested last week in North Carolina and has pleaded not guilty to one count of rape and four counts of murder.

The U.S. statement said the five soldiers still on active duty will face an Article 32 investigation, similar to a grand jury hearing in civilian law. The Article 32 proceeding will determine whether there is enough evidence to place them on trial.

One of the soldiers was charged with failing to report the attack but is not believed to have participated in it directly, the statement said.

Finally Some Justice.

I truly hope he gets the Highest Pentaly possible.

Actually, there is no justice yet. Only after they are found guilty or innocent will there be an approach to justice.

If they are guilty, there is still no way to make the victim whole or to truly atone for what was done, so justice would have to be purely symbolic, and could in no way come close to what they deserve.

People do not hate America the only thing that people hates is the hypocrisy of the way our own elected officials seems to disregard information and facts to make it look less horrible and the lengthy way that they act upon facts.

The soldiers did the deed and they need to be exposed for what they are.

No, no all soldiers are criminal rapist and sadist but they are out there and is not accountability for heinous act until somebody talks.

Meanwhile everybody else seems to cover each others back side, the more our soldiers stay in Iraq more heinous acts will be perpetrated by the sick few.

Still it will no be just the few the ones to be pointed out but rather the whole military will be deemed criminal and dangerous by the same people that they are suppose to be protecting in Iraq.