Crowley, what is so bad?

Originally posted by Cug
Dang Tamahu, you are really making this hard.

I'm not trying to have a discussion with the person who posted that on the other forum. I'm not trying to have a discussion with S.A.W. either. I'm trying to have a discussion with you. It's kinda hard when 90% of your posts are quotes of others.

It's because when there is info availible to quote, that can explain better than I can, I'll utilize it.

Either way you're going to be reading info on a computer screen, whether it's from me or someone else.

It's not like we're talking face to face.

This is one of the major downsides of the internet; and is why I'll be trying to wrap up everything that I've been posting on here, so that I can engage sentient beings more heart-to-heart(but I keep seeing topics that make me want to throw my, or someone elses "two cents" in ).

On the other hand, the internet is extremely valuable in these times, as it makes info availible to those who would not otherwise have access to it.

So instead of being addicted to posting on the internet all the time, it would be better for people to engage 'real life' more, and just post from time-to-time and make their posts "half-short and twice-strong".

Quoting the Masters is a good way to do this(instead of our subjective opinions), as a single sentence from them will usually contain much more, than what the average intellectual animal can say in a hundred.


Anyway...

Never even met the dude, so how could I have anything against him personally?

It's kinda the topic of this thread yaknow? "Crowley, what is so bad?" and all that.

I'm not so much concerned about him "being bad" or not.

As I said, it is many of his misleading teachings that I'm concerned with.


Does this make my posts off-topic?





[edit on 18-8-2006 by Tamahu]

Crowley was working with the British as a spy against Germany. For example, he taught Churchhill the "V" symbol to counteract Hitler's "Martin Luther Salute".

The "V" symbol (with the index finger and the middle finger extended) did not just coincidentally appear during WW2. Crowley's style was to embraced Jahve, rather than throw an ink pot at him.

(Edit, deleted my post) - I made an error by confusing him with someone else. My appologies for the confusion.

[edit on 20-8-2006 by corsig]

Why do you think Crowley was a Satanist?

How did he bring it into the limelight?

Hi Cinosamitna

Originally posted by Cinosamitna
Crowley was working with the British as a spy against Germany. For example, he taught Churchhill the "V" symbol to counteract Hitler's "Martin Luther Salute".

The "V" symbol (with the index finger and the middle finger extended) did not just coincidentally appear during WW2. Crowley's style was to embraced Jahve, rather than throw an ink pot at him.

Interesting.

How does this, in a little more detail, relate to Adolf Hitler working for the Zionists and Dag-Dugpas(Black Lodge)?

Both the British and the Nazis were ultimately under control of the Zionists, in order to establish a "Jewish Homeland" or state of "Israel" in Palestine, no?(we know that real Jews oppose Zionism and Nazism)

Hi Tamahu,

Yes, Jewish people particularly the orthodox Jewish people were very opposed to the Zionists’ plans and also to the Jesuits. To break it down in the most simplistic terms, we should be comparing religion with race. True orthodox Jewish people (regardless of their race) are people who do not use any race related issues to their advantage. In this category, we may also include those Jewish people who wish to not be religious in any way and who like the vast majority, haven’t any clue as to what is truly going on.

It's interesting that Herzl and Marx were both considered non-orthodox people, with the later often referred to as an 'atheist'. Both men were very much concerned with RACE and seemed to mock religion. Marx also made several anti-Jewish remarks which offended many people. And Herzl used to say that the Jews are like animals and those who dare not cut off their locks and shave their beards are to be treated as second rate citizens, not even being permitted the right to vote! Herzl (who has streets named after him in Israel) incited several hateful remarks about the Jewish Orthodox people. During WW2, only the secular Jews were granted transport out of Germany and other areas and the orthodox Jews were usually left behind.

As you may know, both Marx and Herzl were black adapts who pretended to be secular or atheistic. Their purpose was to destroy the integration of the Jewish people (who longed for Europe) and ghettoize them as a new people who would be ONLY race concerned and thus controllable by the ‘Olympians’, in Britain. The Zionists are being used (as they are today in Lebanon) to further the plans of the “Venetians” mostly in Britain, Italy and USA. These people see themselves as “British-Israel” and although they are not coming from the “Tribe of Joseph” or even the “Tribe of Judea” they sit upon the thrones as imposters. Also, the main target was Germany – being a strong Lutheran nation and Republic which Britain and France despised. The true orthodox Jewish people were never interested in RACE and so they have always been targeted; even today in Israel, the Orthodox are looked upon as ‘demons’. But now it is difficult to separate the true Orthodox with other groups like Chabad Lubavitch whose tenants are supposedly orthodox in nature but are they really spiritual in nature?

The true evil doers are hiding behind the materialism of being secular - which Blavatsky and others regarded as being the Jesuits/Dugpas/Zionist plan from the very beginning. For example, Adam Weishaupt himself was a Jesuit, yet ‘always’ remaining a Jesuit, and a Jewish Cabbalist who despised the Catholic Church. The Jesuits infiltrated Freemasonry, not the other way around and the church today teaches that Jesus was a Jew, a huge lie yet the church teaches it because the Jesuits have so bastardized the understanding of Essen or Nazarene – into meaning “Jewish”. However, this is not the fault of Jewish people - today’s Judea-Christians (basically offspring Frankest’) are nothing short of a disaster. They will defend Israel no matter, as they see Jesus as a Jew!

Now keep in mind that Hitler was very angry after the sanctions were destroying Germany and as an adept, he understood correctly at the beginning before he fell into the Abyss. Hitler was a strong supporter of Marin Luther and read Luther's powerful exposures. One was titled "On the Jews and their Lies" which Hitler used as a justification for hating Zionists. Hitler also was very well connected to the Catholic Church but later on in the 1940’s, he started to uncover the Jesuits plotting and this brought about the Catholic Action Movement. Hitler was forced into working with Jesuits at times though, but he later began shutting down all Jesuit affiliated lodges, churches, temples including Freemasonic lodges which he claimed had been corrupted by Zionist or Jesuits and he stated that the true meaning of Theosophy and of Freemasonry and of the Catholic church existed no longer. He strongly opposed the Jesuits and that is why he adopted the Martin Luther Salute which is so well known and popular – even today. Martin Luther used it to free the Christians and Masons from the wrath of the Jesuits. Luther, 4 years before his death, wrote about the Jews, as he felt they were basically as big of an issue as the Jesuits were.

Many false quotes appear on the web regarding Hitler. One particular quote is of Hitler praising Ignatius Loyola! This is pure nonsense though, as even Blavatsky herself, who spoke so bluntly about the evil of the Jesuits hinted that the Jesuits were founded by Evil Jewish Cabbalists. Since Hitler was also a student of Blavatsky’s, (and a Freemason before withdrawing his membership) he would not have ever praised Loyola – IMO. Also, the Theosophical movement has been infiltrated by false Theosophists, such as Bailey, Besant, Ledbetter, Crème and others who came along after Blavatsky’s death, and subsequently led to Steiner’s separation. Hitler was also aware of this infiltration but for some reason did not seem to notice the Jesuits until later on. As Hitler’s power grew, so did his hatred for Zionists and he met several bankers calling themselves “Christians” who wanted to do away with the Jewish problem,. These were Zionists funding Hitler and Hitler had little clue that they were using him.

The Dugpa Red Hats in Bhutan were also supporting Hitler against the Jesuits and Zionists but the Dugpas agenda was also to destroy Germany (destroy Christianity) and thus they used Hitler to help kill off, or force out all the Jews which only furthered the plans of Zion pushed by the Jesuits and the Zionists. That is why the Dugpas in Bhutan are often regarded as ‘Zionists’, as they supported the VERY same goal in the end – with the creation of Israel, separation of the Jewish people and the destruction of Russia and Germany. As for Aleister Crowley’s involvement, he was nothing more than an Ill-famed magician sought after by Churchill and others to help them destroy Germany and he taught them the druid “V’ mantra to counteract Hitler’s Lutheran Salute. Crowley simply used the Hebrew Tree of Life for his own selfish and perverted desires.

Cinosamitna

Thanks for the reference material to study Cinosamitna.



For now I'd like to address just a few points.

Originally posted by Cinosamitna
During WW2, only the secular Jews were granted transport out of Germany and other areas and the orthodox Jews were usually left behind.

So even though the Zionists, at the top levels, actually believe in and worship the inverted Tetragrammaton: Yahve(chief of demons); they use secular Zionists(who call themselves "Jewish")-who could care less about any kind of worship-to achieve their ends?

The Zionists are being used (as they are today in Lebanon) to further the plans of the “Venetians” mostly in Britain, Italy and USA.

In Lebanon?

The true evil doers are hiding behind the materialism of being secular - which Blavatsky and others regarded as being the Jesuits/Dugpas/Zionist plan from the very beginning. For example, Adam Weishaupt himself was a Jesuit, yet ‘always’ remaining a Jesuit, and a Jewish Cabbalist who despised the Catholic Church.

Would you say that Adam Weishaupt and Athanasius Kircher were White Adepts?

The Jesuits infiltrated Freemasonry, not the other way around

I believe that a FreeMason and Theosophist, J.D. Buck(who claimed to be support the White Lodge), wrote something about this as well.

"This article was published in the July, 1907 issue of "New Age" published by the Supreme Council of the Southern Jurisdiction Scottish Rite and is about the Holy Roman Church's aim and object to gain political power in America. Freemasonry is a bitter foe to all forms of tyranny and oppression: religious, political, and social. It's no surprise therefore, that the "Holy Roman Church" has issued many "Papal Bulls" against the Freemasons and has, through its army of Jesuits, endeavored to suppress Freemasonry around the world. Here's a 33rd Degree Mason who fights back. "

and the church today teaches that Jesus was a Jew, a huge lie yet the church teaches it because the Jesuits have so bastardized the understanding of Essen or Nazarene – into meaning “Jewish”. However, this is not the fault of Jewish people - today’s Judea-Christians (basically offspring Frankest’) are nothing short of a disaster. They will defend Israel no matter, as they see Jesus as a Jew!

The Christ


...The Nazarene, Jesus-Iesus-Zeus, is the modern man who totally incarnates the Universal Christic Principle. Prior to Jesus, many Masters incarnated this Christic principle of Fire.

The Rabbi of Galilee is a God, because he totally incarnated the Cosmic Christ. Hermes, Quetzalcoatl, Krishna are Gods because they also incarnated the Cosmic Christ...







...Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier and a Hebrew woman. The Great Hierophant was of medium stature and with fair skin, lightly tanned by the rays of the Sun. The Great Master had black hair and a beard of the same color. His eyes were like two ineffable nights. The word Nazarene comes from nazar, meaning "a man with a straight nose." Jesus did not have the hooked, Jewish type of nose. The Great Master had a straight nose. This is typical of the white European race. Jesus was only Jewish on the side of the Hebrew Mary; however, on his father's side he was of the white Celtic race. His father was a Roman soldier. The priestess wife of the Master Jesus was also of white race and had great esoteric powers, as she demonstrated when travelling with the Nazarene through the countries of the Mediterranean in the lands of Europe.

Jesus was a complete man. Jesus was not the castrated one who many religions depicted. Jesus followed the Path of the Perfect Matrimony. Jesus formed the Christ within himself by practising Sexual Magic with his wife. What we are stating will shock fanatics. Nevertheless, when scientists have the Akasic records of nature in their power, then these people will see that we were right, because they will be able to see for themselves the life of Jesus by means of ultramodern television (it does not matter what name will be given to those devices in that age)...

So the Hebrews were in a sense a 'white'-skinned type of race too though right?(perhaps mixed with Arab Semites)

This is probably why the Nation of Islam and Nation of Gods and Earths say that Moses was half "grafted"(Hebrew) and half Original(Khemetian).

Luther, 4 years before his death, wrote about the Jews, as he felt they were basically as big of an issue as the Jesuits were.

Eliphas Levi wrote some interesting things about Martin Luther.

Was the Roman Catholic Eliphas Levi a Jesuit as well?

Rudolf Steiner, Samael Aun Weor and Blavatsky do see him as an White Adept; however along with some corrupted elements.

Also, the Theosophical movement has been infiltrated by false Theosophists, such as Bailey, Besant, Ledbetter, Crème and others who came along after Blavatsky’s death, and subsequently led to Steiner’s separation.

Samael Aun Weor-although not classifying him as an Adept-never said that C.W. Leadbeater was a fake(and even recommends a couple of his books).


I've also heard that Rudolf Steiner was assassinated by the Nazis.

The Dugpa Red Hats in Bhutan were also supporting Hitler against the Jesuits and Zionists but the Dugpas agenda was also to destroy Germany (destroy Christianity) and thus they used Hitler to help kill off, or force out all the Jews which only furthered the plans of Zion pushed by the Jesuits and the Zionists. That is why the Dugpas in Bhutan are often regarded as ‘Zionists’, as they supported the VERY same goal in the end – with the creation of Israel, separation of the Jewish people and the destruction of Russia and Germany.

Right, the goal being the creation of the Israeli(false Israel) state in Palestine.

As for Aleister Crowley’s involvement, he was nothing more than an Ill-famed magician sought after by Churchill and others to help them destroy Germany and he taught them the druid “V’ mantra to counteract Hitler’s Lutheran Salute. Crowley simply used the Hebrew Tree of Life for his own selfish and perverted desires.

A Druid salute?


Samael Aun Weor taught that the Druids were originally White-Magicians(although Buddhists with dark-skin, as pointed out by a Druid/FreeMason named Godfrey Higgins, who is respected by Henry Olcott, H.P. Blavatsky and Manly P. Hall).

So is this "V" mantra an invention of later black-magician Druids?(who were probably European peoples who eventually replaced the Buddhist Cush-ite/Celtae who originally inhabited Britain/Ireland)





Regards







[edit on 22-8-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Cinosamitna
Also, the Theosophical movement has been infiltrated by false Theosophists

As Thelema has been infiltrated by false-Prophets:



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The Gnostic Catholic Church is entirely different from the Roman Catholic Church. The Gnostic Catholic Church is the religious body for Thelemites (disciples of the religion instituted by Aleister Crowley, the Thelemic Prophet). The Gnostic Catholic Church ordains clergy, celebrates the Gnostic Mass, baptizes communicants, performs weddings, and other sacerdotal functions similar to Christian churches.

Well perhaps we both have our biases... but please, lets' consider a few things before giving A. Crowley more credit than he deserves.

The Catholic Gnostic Church rituals of Thelema were not invented by the clever Hanasmuss Aleister Crowley, even though he popularized them.

The original O.T.O. practiced them before A. Crowley ever joined; and also, that Arnold Krumm-Heller's Fraternitas Rosicruciana Antiqua(F.R.A.) practiced them as well.

These same rituals had to have been practiced in the Egyptian Masonry of Cagliostro too.



Again:

LINK:

"The phrase: "Whosoever calls you Thelemites will not commit any injustice so long as he knows the word with perfection," belongs to the Gnostic Church and is not the property of Aleister Crowley or anybody else!

And if Aleister Crowley betrayed his oath by printing the sacred rituals of the Gnostic Church for the public that is not our problem, but his! The Cosmic Law already heard his case and sentenced him."




"In the superior worlds there is a Gnostic Church, the Cathedral of the Soul. In this cathedral rituals are carried out Fridays and Sundays at dawn or whenever necessary for the good of humanity. Many devotees gather at the Praetor in Astral Bodies. There are also some athletes of the Jinn science who carry their physical body to the Praetor. Thus, all of these devotees have the fortune of receiving the bread and wine…

The Gnostic Church preserves the entire Secret Doctrine of the Adorable Savior of the world. The Gnostic Church is the religion of happiness and beauty. The Gnostic Church is the virginal trunk from which Romanism and all of the other sects that adore Christ came forth. The Gnostic Church is the only church that preserves, in secret, the doctrine that Christ taught from his lips to the ears of his disciples...

We must not forget that there are rituals of Light and of Darkness. We possess the secret rituals of the Adorable Savior of the World.

Neither we scorn nor do we underestimate any religion. All religions are precious pearls linked on the golden thread of Divinity. We only affirm that Gnosis is the flame from which all religions of the Universe come forth. That is all."


- Perfect Matrimony by Samael Aun Weor

Originally posted by Cinosamitna
Also, the Theosophical movement has been infiltrated by false Theosophists

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Tamahu
The term "Thelema" was used by some of the Gnostics and Church Fathers hundreds and hundreds of years ago as well.


And by Francois Rabelias:


en.wikipedia.org...

We, the Gnostics, can visit Nirvana even with our body of flesh and bones.

Obviously, modern Theosophists will laugh at us because they know naught about these things.

The unique thing that they have in their heads is an arsenal of theories. But in practicality, they are nothing but eunuchs of understanding, morbid mystics, and fornicating sybarites.

I still remember a Theosophist who was a member of a Black Lodge. How terrified he flew away from a park in Cartagena(South America) when I told him that he was consciously working in the astral plane(???). This is the breaking point of negativity from Theosophists. They horrify themselves simply with thinking of awakening the consciousness.

They are only interested in having their heads filled with “cockroaches” and in living their life asleep. Nevertheless, they say that some day they think they will enter Nirvana. Foolish boasters of wisdom, know that only those who have already passed through the High Initiation, only those who have given their last drop of blood for this humanity, will enter into Nirvana.


All men long for the High Initiation; yet, they can only reach the altar of the High Initiation with the virile member in the state of erection (explanation in next chapter).

Therefore, the Gnostic always lives heroically, always triumphant and always a rebel, like the heroes of Rabelais, who knew nothing of weakness.

The Gnostics yearn for Nirvana, but they know very well that they carry Nirvana within their sexual glands. Thus, they want to Self-realize it within themselves by means of courage.


- Samael Aun Weor's The Revolution of Beelzebub

[edit on 22-8-2006 by Tamahu]

Thanks for the reference material to study Cinosamitna.

You’re most welcome Tamahu and it’s been a great honor reading your posts. I will do my best to address you below.

So even though the Zionists, at the top levels, actually believe in and worship the inverted Tetragrammaton: Yahve(chief of demons); they use secular Zionists(who call themselves "Jewish")-who could care less about any kind of worship-to achieve their ends?

The Zionists who worship Jahve are using both the Christians and Jewish people’s belief in a “chosen race” to further their agenda. They are also conducting ritual human sacrifice via wars and through Talmudic blood ritual. On the other hand, even though the secular peoples (not actively involved in any black magic) may have no interest in religion, they do tend to follow or get swept into the false belief system by identifying themselves as being ‘racially’ Jewish and this is being used as a political force today. Christ said there should be neither Judean, nor Gentile and those people who wish to bring about a following of racial tendencies are following the Commandments of Jahve – whether they know it or not. Those Christians (Judeo-Christian) who wish to bring about Christ into flesh (whether they know it or not) are supporting Jahve (in varying degrees) and I believe Crème sells this idea in another fashion.

In Lebanon?

Since the invasion into Lebanon, people are looking toward Israel being the sole cause of the war, in that they are a Zionist state. However, even though Arial Sharon claims he is in charge, his power is limited to the various lobbies, (AIPAC) media and other facilities in America. The ADL, believe it or not, is not anything like AIPAC. The ADL is subservient to the Queen of England and through British-Israel and not the Jewish people, even though they create the illusion of being only a Jewish agency. The real power lies out of London and as we are now seeing a rise in anti-Jewish sentiment, we must be cautious to avoid placing the full blame upon the Jewish people who often mistakenly now call themselves “Zionists’. The reason for this advisory is that the Jewish people calling themselves Zionists are the “patsies”, for the true “Dugpa” Zionists and these Dugpas are ruling out of London, Italy and the USA mostly. The British gave Israel to the political Zionists to further replace the Suez Canal and thus bridge the East and West together – this is the true political intention behind Rothschild supporting the Talmudists in Eastern Europe but as you know, the more sinister agenda is not about money. As for Israel, the IDF soldiers are for the most part ‘secularist’ but they still do tend to see themselves as “chosen” and this makes the whole of Israel look sinister based upon the latest political actions. People also focus (including me) on Rothschild being a powerful member but there are families more powerful and barely known, including the Venetian Italian family of Thurn Und Taxis and others less well known. Families like Rockefeller are Tier 2 or 3 and also subservient to the RIIA, which is subservient to the Roundtable group (Rhodes Scholars), which is subservient to the 300 families like Rothschild, Taxis, with the head being Queen Elizabeth II.

Would you say that Adam Weishaupt and Athanasius Kircher were White Adepts?

Adam Weishaupt was a black adapt and Karl Marx “Mordechai Levy” and Friedrich Engels, were basically carrying out the plans of Weishaupt, and Weishaupt’s group is just one faction of the ‘Elders’ councils. The UN charter is proof of these plans set about today. Athanasius Kircher, I’m not sure if he was a black adapt but I will tell you that both John Robison and Augustin Barruel were certainly not “white adapts” and should be viewed with great suspicion. Both of their works are still being used today to attack Freemasonry as evidence that it was infiltrated by the Illuminati and they do speak the truth in this regard. However it’s not what they say, as much as it is what they do not say. By lying through omission, they fail to tell us that it was the Jesuits who infiltrated Freemasonry and both John Robison and Barrel were also Jesuits – Robison being a scientist himself. Jesuits have always been at the forefront of materialism, which is a double edged sword at times and subsequently, they are behind most of the phony UFO information today, via the ‘NRO’ or National Reconnaissance Agency.

I believe that a FreeMason and Theosophist, J.D. Buck(who claimed to be support the White Lodge), wrote something about this as well.

Interesting quote! Yes, he said it quite well and sadly, we now have 50 million plus evangelic Judea-Christians who tend to think otherwise. Judeo-Christian being a term coined by Jacob Frank, another black adapt following the footsteps of Zevi.

So the Hebrews were in a sense a 'white'-skinned type of race too though right?(perhaps mixed with Arab Semites)

This is probably why the Nation of Islam and Nation of Gods and Earths say that Moses was half "grafted"(Hebrew) and half Original(Khemetian).

Correct, those whiter skinned Hebrew people were made up of British-Israel ‘unicorn logo’ or the 10 Northern Tribes of Joseph and the British peoples, Irish, American, Canadians, Scottish and others are ‘never’ supposed to know about this. The British flag also reveals this fact. The 2 tribes of Judea are the darker skinned Hebrew people ‘lion logo’ and most of them today are the Sephardic Jewish people, or the Muslims (however many of them are also coming from Ishmael.) The Greeks-Romans are coming mostly from “Japheth” (I believe)? Therefore, many white people could potentially claim Israel – if they wanted to be racists (mind you) because the Covenant is a spiritual togetherness, not a land. The 10 northern tribes of Israel plus the 2 southern tribes of Judea equals the 12 Lost Tribes of the Kingdom of Israel. But none of this matter – race does not matter and the imposter Queen is not even of the Tribe of Joseph!

Eliphas Levi wrote some interesting things about Martin Luther.

Was the Roman Catholic Eliphas Levi a Jesuit as well?

Rudolf Steiner, Samuel Aun Weor and Blavatsky do see him as an White Adept; however along with some corrupted elements.

Levi was certainly of the White Lodge. I don’t think he was Jesuit (??) but he was a Catholic Priest until his later years. However, even if he was a Jesuit it would be understandable, as many Jesuits (for example: Malachi Martin) were a God-send to us all and have done a great deal to assist humanity. Also, many Jesuits are low level and not aware of the issues.

Samael Aun Weor-although not classifying him as an Adept-never said that C.W. Leadbeater was a fake(and even recommends a couple of his books).

Steiner wanted to remain separate from them after he caught them involved in Tantric mantras and later on (after his death) appeared with his ether body to another Christian mystic living in Cyprus warning him to not meet with Bezant, unless he wanted to end up like Krishnimurti. Perhaps, Leadbeater still has some good teachings mind you, and could this be the case why S.A.W recommended a couple of his books?

I've also heard that Rudolf Steiner was assassinated by the Nazis.

Yes, and it must have been torture as Steiner foresaw it all in advance. The Thule society sent their agents to burn down his Goethetorium and made several attempts to kill him with bombs, although he did escape unharmed. But later on they poisoned him and he eventually died in his sleep.

Samuel Aun Weor taught that the Druids were originally White-Magicians(although Buddhists with dark-skin, as pointed out by a Druid/FreeMason named Godfrey Higgins, who is respected by Henry Olcott, H.P. Blavatsky and Manly P. Hall).

So is this "V" mantra an invention of later black-magician Druids?(who were probably European peoples who eventually replaced the Buddhist Cush-ite/Caeltics who originally inhabited Britain/Ireland)

Yes, you are correct. Jupiter-Sabazios were the first cults to use it and they adopted it from the Druids and it later became a form of black magic. The ‘V’ is often considered to be the counter ‘En-Volt’.

I have to agree with S. A. W in that many of the lodges in the material are not in a proper form. An example of this is the alteration of the degrees of Freemasonry. teachings of the churches and temples, etc all reflect that perhaps it is time for us all to seek the temple of heaven inside, and not outside of us.
Regards Cinosamitna

I'll have to address the rest later, but for now...

Originally posted by Cinosamitna
Adam Weishaupt was a black adapt and Karl Marx “Mordechai Levy” and Friedrich Engels, were basically carrying out the plans of Weishaupt, and Weishaupt’s group is just one faction of the ‘Elders’ councils. The UN charter is proof of these plans set about today. Athanasius Kircher, I’m not sure if he was a black adapt but I will tell you that both John Robison and Augustin Barruel were certainly not “white adapts” and should be viewed with great suspicion. Both of their works are still being used today to attack Freemasonry as evidence that it was infiltrated by the Illuminati and they do speak the truth in this regard. However it’s not what they say, as much as it is what they do not say. By lying through omission, they fail to tell us that it was the Jesuits who infiltrated Freemasonry and both John Robison and Barrel were also Jesuits – Robison being a scientist himself. Jesuits have always been at the forefront of materialism, which is a double edged sword at times and subsequently, they are behind most of the phony UFO information today, via the ‘NRO’ or National Reconnaissance Agency.

Weren't Goethe, St. Germain, Cagliostro and Mozart(White Adepts) all members of The Bavarian Illuminati?

Weren't Goethe, St. Germain, Cagliostro and Mozart(White Adepts) all members of The Bavarian Illuminati?

I was not at all aware of this, Tamahu. If you have heard this somehow, may be there is some truth here.

Though I was taught that they most certainly were "illuminated" but not necessarily a part of the political movement of the Bavarian Illuminati. One need only study what Weishaupt said about the Catholic Church and that should separate Great men like Goethe, St. Germain, Cagliostro, Mozart etc. from the more diabolical plans of someone like Weishaupt. I also read that Goethe's work was in slight opposition to F. Bacon's, but Bacon was never diabolically endured like Weishaupt even if slightly mislead at times.


[edit on 22-8-2006 by Cinosamitna]

Dear All,

don t you think this is funny all these masons trying to justify their beliefs...

personnaly i do.

raise your voice to forbid their movement....or should i say religion...they worship jabulon i f i am correct

Originally posted by Cug
Why do you think Crowley was a Satanist?

How did he bring it into the limelight?

One can know it simply by reading Liber Samech. www.rahoorkhuit.net...



Here is a tiny quote from it:

Thou spiritual Sun! Satan, Thou Eye, Thou Lust! Cry aloud! Cry aloud! Whirl the Wheel, O my Father, O Satan, O Sun!"
SOTOU "Thou, the Saviour

I have read many of his writings and am wondering if his religion has any validity or is it just a major time filler.

Originally posted by Cinosamitna


Though I was taught that they most certainly were "illuminated" but not necessarily a part of the political movement of the Bavarian Illuminati. One need only study what Weishaupt said about the Catholic Church and that should separate Great men like Goethe, St. Germain, Cagliostro, Mozart etc. from the more diabolical plans of someone like Weishaupt.

The abovementioned gentlemen did not consider Weishaupt's ideas "diabolical", and supported him fully. Mozart's opera "The Magic Flute" is a pro-Illuminati tour de force, and Goethe held a seat on the Illuminati's High Council (as did Germaine).

A generally fair account of the Illuminati from a Catholic perspective can be found here.

Originally posted by Cinosamitna


Adam Weishaupt was a black adapt and Karl Marx “Mordechai Levy” and Friedrich Engels, were basically carrying out the plans of Weishaupt, and Weishaupt’s group is just one faction of the ‘Elders’ councils. The UN charter is proof of these plans set about today.

How exactly is that? What does Weishaupt's plan for a democratic republic in Bavaria have to do with Marx's theories of class struggle? (and by the way, his birth name was Karl Heinreich Marx, not "Mordechai Levy").

Marxist thought is a product of the Industrial Revolution, which was not even underway when the Illuminati flourished, and neither Weishaupt nor the other Illuminati members were socialists. Marx's ideas stem from the rampant poverty that covered Europe during the initial period of industrialization, and the U.N. Charter mentions none of that. Marx saw the widening gap in wealth between the capitalist class and the proletariat, and simply noted that history proves that whenever there's a hungry majority around, they usually and eventually rise up to overthrow their oppressors.

I havnt got the time to read the entire thread however as far as crowley goes what concerns me is not the practise of sex magic or anything like that, his names etc but that I remember reading from a good source many years ago a quote from Crowley saying he was very much like the present Bohemia grove type into SACRIFICING CHILDREN and using the energy of Orgasms at the precise moment of death to take on the energy of the sacrificed child.

I did read this quote from a good source in a published book, I dont remember the author however the book was called Magic and the Tarot, and the Author was a practicing majician (of the golden dawn type), so he was leaning towards not just blasting crowley but on his "wavelength"

Very scary stuff if true and enough for me to not to like the guy!


Regards Elf

ps I would advise all who look into or want to research these subjects to do sooo very very carefully and hopefully with an experianced guide in the "white" form of such activities, not because of the external effects, eg turning into a frog os such nonsence but the inner effects on your psychology that can and have been for some catastrophic....as shakespeare said "theres more to heaven than we will ever know"

[edit on 23-8-2006 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
I havnt got the time to read the entire thread however as far as crowley goes what concerns me is not the practise of sex magic or anything like that, his names etc but that I remember reading from a good source many years ago a quote from Crowley saying he was very much like the present Bohemia grove type into SACRIFICING CHILDREN and using the energy of Orgasms at the precise moment of death to take on the energy of the sacrificed child.

Neither Aleister Crowley nor the participants in the Bohemian Grove sacrificed children.

Crowley's reference to "human sacrifice" in his writings concerned coitus interruptus, where the ability to create a child per sexual intercourse is "sacrificed" for the purpose of using the elements for magical purposes.

The abovementioned gentlemen did not consider Weishaupt's ideas "diabolical", and supported him fully. Mozart's opera "The Magic Flute" is a pro-Illuminati tour de force, and Goethe held a seat on the Illuminati's High Council (as did Germaine).

A generally fair account of the Illuminati from a Catholic perspective can be found here.

Thanks for the information Masonic Light. I was not aware that Goethe, who opposed the scientific approach of testing through hardcore trial and error, was a member of Moriah Conquering Wind, aka the Bavarian Illuminati.

I'll have to investigate this further. As for Mordechai Levy: if one accepts that Marx was merely interested in class struggle, then I agree with you fully.




[edit on 23-8-2006 by Cinosamitna]

i have read most of crowleys books ie. "magick: in theory and practice , little essays toward truth, the book of lies, 777 and Other Qabalistic Writings ,The Book of the Law, and just essays he wrote most of his work has to do w/ mans i dont want to say religion but mans spirituality. his work was basically his philosophy. nothing was infact terrible about him only the church aimed him as a terror b/c he thought himself to bo the the chosen one he thought he was 666 the beast

Originally posted by Cinosamitna


Thanks for the information Masonic Light. I was not aware that Goethe, who opposed the scientific approach of testing through hardcore trial and error, was a member of Moriah Conquering Wind, aka the Bavarian Illuminati.

Actually, Goethe changed his scientific views during his career, abandoning the strum und drang movement, and adopting the neo-classical. He once famously said that "As a poet, I am a pagan; as a scientist, I am a pantheist".

I'll have to investigate this further. As for Mordechai Levy: if one accepts that Marx was merely interested in class struggle, then I agree with you fully.

Marx begins Chapter 1 of the Communist Manifesto by saying:

The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

That's a pretty bold statement, yet his argument that follows is a strong one. Marx believed that as society continued to evolve, class antagonisms would disappear. Therefore, the communist revolution, at least in classical Marxism, would not necessarily have to be a violent one (as the Industrial Revolution was non-violent).

Marx's major idea is that the two opposing classes would reshape themselves naturally, as more and more petty bourgeouis capitalists were reduced to proletariat status, while wealth became more and more concentrated in the hands of fewer tycoons. Marx's predictions in this regard have come true, considering the fact that in the US, over 95% of the nation's wealth is controlled by the top 5% of the population in regard to personal wealth.