The Necronomicon facts or Fiction?

Originally posted by Enyalius
Hmmm...Nostradamus has nothing to do with the Necronomicon at all. Except that they both have fiction working for them

LOL! Oh my gosh. I am SOOO embarrissed! I thought the post was asking about nostradamus. LOL

Alright everyone... delete my dimwitted replies from your minds!

I thought the Miskatonic still held the original copy of the necronomicon. Do they not?

I've just read the book of Necronomicon by simon and it's interesting....

Whats more interesting is the copy of Solomons Key that I have.....it's way powerful stuff and shouldn't be taken lightly...

Originally posted by Pictnation
I've just read the book of Necronomicon by simon and it's interesting....

Whats more interesting is the copy of Solomons Key that I have.....it's way powerful stuff and shouldn't be taken lightly...

You know that brings up a interesting fact (well IMHO).

The Greater and Lesser Keys of Solomon are just as "fake" as the Necronomicon.

The Greater Key of Solomon is a magical system (probably) written sometime in the 1200-1400's but given a history that dates back a long time ago.

The Lesser Key of Solomon is a magical system (probably) written in the 17 century but given a history that dates back a long time ago.

The Necronomicon is a magical system written in the 1970's but was given a history that dates back a long time ago.

The only difference between the real systems of the Keys of Solomon and the fake Necronomicon is the time that they were written. Age seems to add validity to magical systems, that's probably why they were given fake histories in the first place. I suspect that in 500 years the Nec will be just as valid as the other grimoires.


LOL oops! I might of went too far across the occult nerd line for this forum

Indeed Cug, you went to far for most people here

But it does bring up a similar question to "Who initiated the first witch" when a witch asks if they have to be a part of a coven or not in order to be a "real" witch. The same principle applies to many magical systems, they were invented one time or another. Same for many religious belief systems.

This is also a nice area for Chaos magic, you can create anything you like to work with whether it be using pokemon as correspondence to elementals and have one as a servitoror or invoke a rock idol like Elvis.

The validity of a magical system is not how old it is, but if it works.

Originally posted by Enyalius

Originally posted by dnero6911
Okay there Ash ... lol

Hey Cug, Chaos magic is simply using things that are unrelated and relating them... thats all chaos magic is,... simply that is..

You crack me up. Cug can I have this one?

..........
[edit on 28-6-2006 by Enyalius]

.... I would urge you not to laugh at my understanding... I know what chaos entails... but trying to explain it to someone who can't grasp the concept that was an appropriate answer, notice how I said simply... it's a magic of no control, no controller, no rules, and no ruler... my example of relating unrelated things is just explaining how everything is interconnected when thinking "chaotically"

Originally posted by Cug


Sure they would, you could think of as a form of Chaos Magick.

Shoot I know someone who evoked the powerful entity Yogi Bear and charged him to do a task*. It worked, but it's hard to do, you basically have to make him "real" in your mind.

*He was losing weight from chemo, so he evoked Yogi to give him an appetite.

[edit on 6/28/2006 by Cug]

Chaos magick is a completely different story.

I should rephrase it to mean: no occultist of established practice and tradition would take it seriously.

Ive read it, and I think its insane, but also cool at the same time

The Necronomicon is pure fiction, plain and simple.

The Simon versions of the Necronomicon are pure money making schemes, Avon publishing I believe picked it up for the paper back version and continues to profit off it.

I believe there were an originol hard cover printing of 666 copies, sexy book, used to cost $50 and thats when most books didn't cost that much (unlike today).

There are a known six different versions of the Necronomicon, at the bare minimum, with a recent publication of yet another, which again is pure fiction, it might make fun reading if you are into the Al-Hazred legend since it follows his fabled journeys.

Now...if you CHOOSE to use the Simon version for magick then you are actually using babalyon mythology, and a convoluted one at that.

If you CHOOSE to use any system of symbols and entities it is only the power of your own mind and strength of your own beliefs that get the job done.

The symbols and supposed entities in and of themselves do nothing alone, they have not been sitting on their butts in an alternate dimesnion for millenia waiting for Merlin wannabes to give them employment.

This holds true across the board.
Any non corpreal entity is only a symbol of focus for you, something to give
a personality to because your brain likes that more than talking to the wall.
A little research will show new agers even give names and personalities to their pet rocks, ie, crystals. Do you really think a little gnome is living inside there with nothing to do but make you feel better? Maybe you do believe that, shame on you.

Also, the Necronomicon discussion has been done at least once before here, please use the search feature before cluttering up ATS with more inane questions about fictional material.


Else we will see "Wonderland...fact or fiction", "Tattoine, really the butthole of the galaxy?", "Who believes in the big bad wolf?", and "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar? Not me"

Originally posted by Enyalius
This is also a nice area for Chaos magic, you can create anything you like to work with whether it be using pokemon as correspondence to elementals and have one as a servitoror or invoke a rock idol like Elvis.

Brilliant.


I conjure the forces of Elvis Costello, in the mighty name of the 18,500th person in this
years local yellow pages, to invoke the spirit and mind of Carlos Sagan. Meeelions and Meeelions and Meeelions of Stars I am you are!

If it works, it works.

I choose you Cthulhu!

[edit on 28-6-2006 by Legalizer]

Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
I thought the Miskatonic still held the original copy of the necronomicon. Do they not?

so the fictional university [ miskatonic ] , in the fictional town [ Arkham ] , " still holds " the fictional book [ necronomicon ] .

glad we cleared that up -- its good to know its still " safe "

at least till the stars are right

Ia Ia Cthulhi Fataghn !

Originally posted by Cug

The only difference between the real systems of the Keys of Solomon and the fake Necronomicon is the time that they were written. Age seems to add validity to magical systems, that's probably why they were given fake histories in the first place. I suspect that in 500 years the Nec will be just as valid as the other grimoires.


LOL oops! I might of went too far across the occult nerd line for this forum

The same could easily be said for any ancient religon Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc.. and any new modern Cult like the Raelians.

Though I doubt in 500 years the Raelians will be considered a mainstream religon any more the Simons necronomicon will be considered a authentic grimoire developed in the mysterious 1970s

All wrote over there is pure fictional but mybe is based on something of real, not of course as he said; from a manuscript (or anything similiar) because in base of my knowledge i don't know if it was ever found or it had ever concrete news about it
At the end, we could see necronomicon like the message before an episode of Law & Order: facts real wrote on fictional characters, locations and other particulars

[edit on 29-6-2006 by L3X]

I thought this was an interesting thread.

I suspect that in 500 years the Nec will be just as valid as the other grimoires.

Especially that part. Isn't it funny how things like this gain more validation the older they get and the more discussion takes place around them? In 500 years the questions will have gone back and forth so many times as to the validity of this book and the waters will have become so mudied that people will be even less sure whether it's real or not than they are now!

What I find even more interesting is when you apply this pattern to a lot of other topics found on this board.

Thats funny how you people "flame" the choas believers (I'm not one of them) but its not that nice IMO.

I bet they do thesame on there forum about us......

So lets put aside who's wrong or right but focus on the fact if the original work of Simon that has been translated 3 times and got lost so now we got a "bible situation" out here (who got the meaning of the original words right and did the romans change the content).

And focus on the main issue was Simon a crazy old fool with a vivid imagination and on drugs?

Or is he a real thing?

Dont forget books are written by humans and making mistakes is a human aspect (Even bible has them)

So dont start comparing him to Harry Pothead cos of a few floas in the text (the original got translated to Latin in 1228 (first translation of 3)

The Arabic original was lost as early as Wormius' time, as indicated by his prefatory note; and no sight of the Greek copy -- which was printed in Italy between 1500 and 1550 -- has been reported since the burning of a certain Salem man's library in 1692. An English translation made by Dr. Dee was never printed, and exists only in fragments recovered from the original manuscript. Of the Latin texts now existing one (15th cent.) is known to be in the British Museum under lock and key, while another (17th cent.) is in the Bibliothèque Nationale at Paris. A seventeenth-century edition is in the Widener Library at Harvard, and in the library of Miskatonic University at Arkham. Also in the library of the University of Buenos Ayres. Numerous other copies probably exist in secret, and a fifteenth-century one is persistently rumoured to form part of the collection of a celebrated American millionaire. A still vaguer rumour credits the preservation of a sixteenth-century Greek text in the Salem family of Pickman; but if it was so preserved, it vanished with the artist R. U. Pickman, who disappeared early in 1926.

History of Necronomicon

Originally posted by Cug
The only difference between the real systems of the Keys of Solomon and the fake Necronomicon is the time that they were written. Age seems to add validity to magical systems, that's probably why they were given fake histories in the first place. I suspect that in 500 years the Nec will be just as valid as the other grimoires.

LOL oops! I might of went too far across the occult nerd line for this forum

Not at all. I think that was very enlightening. Invert the perspective and you get a very good idea, not only of how myths evolve, but why.

'Just as valid as the other grimoires.' Interesting use of ambiguity there.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Though I doubt in 500 years the Raelians will be considered a mainstream religon

Robot-Babes from beyond revealing mysteries to a frenchman is just as plausible as Zombie Jews offering crackers and wine.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Though I doubt in 500 years the Raelians will be considered a mainstream religon

Robot-Babes from beyond revealing mysteries to a frenchman is just as plausible as Zombie Jews offering crackers and wine.

Im not talking about how plausible each claim is that will prevent something like the Raelians cult or Simon Necronomicon from being widely thought as valid in 500 years.

Rather future knowledge and record keeping will prevent that from happening. If we had Global News, Internet records, video footage etc.. etc.. during the life of Jesus we could look back on his claims with ease and prove or disprove them.

500 years from now a simple net search on "Simon Necronomicon" will easily show you is was created in the 1970s contained a fictional storyline about a man known only as the "Mad Arab" and its author couldnt even get all of Sumerian mythology right in which he largely based his book.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

500 years from now a simple net search on "Simon Necronomicon" will easily show you is was created in the 1970s contained a fictional storyline about a man known only as the "Mad Arab" and its author couldnt even get all of Sumerian mythology right in which he largely based his book.

And a net search now for the keys of Solomon will easily show you the same thing about them.

Why would it matter when the document was created?

If it works for some people then it works for them. End of story.

Originally posted by Cug
And a net search now for the keys of Solomon will easily show you the same thing about them.

Why would it matter when the document was created?

If it works for some people then it works for them. End of story.

Your missing the point Im talking about the information and records when either book was written.

Record-keeping when the keys of Solomon was written quite franky sucked scholars cant even tell what century it was created let alone other background information about where it exactly came out who wrote it who made money if any off it.

That will never be the case for Simons necromoicon.

[edit on 29-6-2006 by ShadowXIX]