Freedom To Fascism - America's Destiny? - May 2008 It BECAME LAW!

Break it down to it's most basic elements to see if it washes:

Let us say that some American decides to forgo cash and barter for all his needs instead. he raises..chickens, let's say, and he trades his eggs and chickens and chicken related products he makes himself on his land for the things he needs in life. he never makes any ' money ' and has no use for treasury notes.

Is there a law that says that this man must give X amount of his chickens to the IRS every year? Is there a law that says that he must give a percentage of whatever he used for living to the IRS as a legal obligation every year?The answer to all those is NO. Taxes are for PROFIT, free money, not the fruit of the labor of the citizen.

A human being has an innate right, an inalienable right, to the rewards for his sweat and effort. Labor is a right, not a pivilege, and cannot be taxed or taken legally. We do NOT " OWE " the IRS anything unless we fit the very narrow categories that the law specifies: Government employees, foreign corporate money, etc. Some ask: Where would we get the money to fund the government? From the foreign deals that now go untaxed. from the proper and legal ways, NOT from buffaloing the people into thinking they have legal obligations when they do not.

No chickens owed, no money owed. If you hit the lottery, you get free money and for some reason the government finds a way to collect it right on the spot, and you get the rest: it is thievery, but try and beat that one..free money gets taxed. But labor is NOT taxable. the prof?

Here it is: there is NO LAW that requires employers to get those W forms filled out: it is a VOLUNTARY relationship and can be withdrawn at any time. read the form: it says that the employee voluntarily agrees to have a portion of his salary taken and given to the IRS!! How nice of all those people to do that!! No law requires it, and no law requires that the employer get it. That proves the case: if it is a VOLUNTARY relationship, it cannot be a coercive one, can it?

reply to post by eyewitness86



In respect to the article in the US constitution that states that CONGRESS has the right to collect taxes in any way they please, congress does not collect taxes, the IRS does.

I think that the original purpose of the consititution was to leave an elected body in charge of collecting taxes, and if they get out of line they can be delt with come election year.

the People have no power over the IRS policy and laws, nor do we here in canada, but that is a different story. We are so down the tubes here i think it might actually be perfectly legal to tax income.

Originally posted by tom goose
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

In respect to the article in the US constitution that states that CONGRESS has the right to collect taxes in any way they please, congress does not collect taxes, the IRS does.

I wish more people would realize this before saying "income tax is illegal"

The IRS/Federal reserve is a private organization owned by private/public banks, thus, the government is not taxing people, the IRS is.

Think of income tax as a "fee" the IRS charges to be able to use their dollars, which is the accepted currency within the USA.

If you do not wish to use dollars, and never in your lifetime use dollars, I do not see how a person can be taxed. However, as soon as one uses an IRS dollar for a unit of trade (a unit of trade legal in the USA- the IRS dollar), they are liable to be taxed for their income of that dollar.

The constitution does not say that congress does not have the power to pass a law that says that a person must pay taxes to the IRS after using the IRS's dollars, they are simply upholding what any private company would want (to paid for their services)


and just as a side note to the OP- hasn't the ReadID act been extended to 2009 for some states, and extended even further to those born before 1964?

[edit on 24-1-2008 by aaaauroraaaaa]

Originally posted by Astronomer70
Who originated & published that scare video and for what purpose?

the movie was made by Arron Russo
Academy Award Movie director and political activist.
he made such movies as
The Rose
Mask
Trading Places
he died of cancer last year

hmmm.... All I can say is..... I know why those 3 UK police aren't alive anymore...

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


Personally, I do not think Fascism will be our outcome.. its an over used scare word that pushes fear into people, no more so then the communist days when every one was affraid of Commies..


However....


I do see the US being led down a natural path towards consolidated power among one branch of government (executive..)

I don't believe this is being pushed by Republicans, nor Democrats, but by the collective path of all governments, that no government will ever willingly give up power for the sake of appeasing the masses, or for the sake of doing such for no reason. All governments however will consolidate and create power, taking away from either other branches of the government or from the people themselves.

This is a natural process, and through each administration the consolidation will rapidly accelerate.. the next President, be it a Rep or Dem, will be more powerful then the next.

Each party is essentially the same, big government, over spenders, war mongers, and each side cares little for the average person, being so far detached from reality they have their head up their #.

However, I don't see this as all of a sudden they are taking our guns (i could never see a Republican doing that anyways) and put us on cattle carts and take us off to prisons..

More likely a gradual reduction of rights, larger government presence in the average life, higher taxes, more secularization, removal of guns is possible..

Notice many things are not true conservative ideas, but rather liberal type ideas.. not says Dems are the real problem, I believe both parties want the same out come.

Which is why the only way to save the country is to vote in a 3rd party!

Drop a Frog into boiling water and he will jump out emediatly,
Put a frog into cool water and gradually raise the temperature to boiling and the frog will stay in untill it dies.
This is what is being done to us.

Originally posted by Maya432

Originally posted by Astronomer70
Who originated & published that scare video and for what purpose?

the movie was made by Arron Russo
Academy Award Movie director and political activist.
he made such movies as
The Rose
Mask
Trading Places
he died of cancer last year

Aaron russo did not direct those movies,
Trading places -John landis
The Mask-chuck Russell
the Rose-not sure,but i know Bette Midler is in it.

This is a perfect example of why people need to check your facts.Look it up for yourself.I own the mask and trading places thats how i know.

Now about taxes.The IRS and the FED are indeed private entities and thats where our arguement is.Congress has the right to tax NOT private companies.Im going to look into the canadian side of it.

Further more about taxes who audits the IRS to ensure they arent abusing the system?Who audits the FED to ensure they arent abusing the system?Both arent part of Congress therefore subject to an audit.This is where you the american citizen get them in their own trap!Audit every member of congress every single year-mandatory for every level of govt and their employees.If you want to run for Congress you open the books on your income every single year.

These are questions people need to ask there reps in Congress either via email or snail mail.Do it and see what your response is.More importantly get this question out to people who dont have internet access.If they blow you off post it across the net for the world to see and expose the corruption and lies.I know ill be talking to my rep here in canada and they better pray Revenue canada is part of our govt and not a private entity.

Originally posted by xpert11

I have a simple question for those who oppose Federal income tax in the US.
Without federal income tax how do you fund the US military ?

Have China print 1,000,000,000 anti-Bush T-shirts and let pitchman Billy Mays sell em at $19.99 a pop on late night gadget channels. Throw in a Mcknife... and sex tape of Mr. Haliburtons daughter and you got money to fund the war for the next - 100 years!

I'm not talking about pork projects I am talking about funding the US military proper.

"Shock & Awful"?? Your whole proper situation has become a stinking, blood soaked "Bowl of human Chitterlings"

[edit on 8-6-2008 by Level X]

The income tax is a fairly new invention. The government got along fine without it before. So it can do it again. My suggestion is that it should go into the energy business and supply us with all of our energy needs. It can sell us the energy. They could put up Geothermal plants in Yellowstone to power the entire US.

It is history repeating itself over in the US regardless of what our fore fathers wanted. For the People by the People has been replaced with for hidden agenda by the politician. I don’t believe there is a single politician that has a passion of making a difference. Even the green candidates drive SUVs. When McCain can win the republican nomination with an average of 35-40% of the individual states vote that leaves out 60-65% of the citizens for the Republican Party vote out. I believe you could arrange a group of politicians to all pretend to be the same, such as Huckabee, Romney, Thompson and Paul, to get a liberal republican in office without breaking the law. One should have to carry a minimum of 51% of the states vote or they don’t win the state. If you have what we had in SC the top two should have a runoff. More things need to be done to get the peoples will.
All I can say is the future for the US without intervention from above is very dim. I love this country and what it stands for but the crooks are in office in all branches and both parties.

Originally posted by Justice11
Further more about taxes who audits the IRS to ensure they arent abusing the system?Who audits the FED to ensure they arent abusing the system?Both arent part of Congress therefore subject to an audit.This is where you the american citizen get them in their own trap!Audit every member of congress every single year-mandatory for every level of govt and their employees.If you want to run for Congress you open the books on your income every single year.

These are questions people need to ask there reps in Congress either via email or snail mail.Do it and see what your response is.More importantly get this question out to people who dont have internet access.If they blow you off post it across the net for the world to see and expose the corruption and lies.I know ill be talking to my rep here in canada and they better pray Revenue canada is part of our govt and not a private entity.

If you use snail mail no matter how respectfully worded - with your signature on it - be prepared to be harassed usually in the form of an audit by the IRS...make sure you have all your ducks in a row, your t's crossed and your i's dotted so to speak before you speak truth to power...

I don't know why Americans get so annoyed with things like this I really don't. State VS Fed law - what is so wrong with central government. Big central government isn't so far away from big state government (big gvt been bad in any case in my opinion). If you want everything to be decided at state level - then start campaigning to break the union and go back to independent nations.

Taxes are a fact of life - this doesn't concern me so much as the fact that the perps of the recent credit crunch are allowed to go unpunished while society pays the price (this being one of those prices).

This post doesn't reflect the true nature of the problem - its just the govt taking action that in all honesty it has to do now... else the bankers pay...

America uses similar Nazis brutality and propaganda but calls it something else. That’s the only reason America gets away with this crap, the hierarchy distorts and confuses people so much that no one knows the real truth unless they go looking, and a majority don’t even know to look. They trust their government without question because the government discussed in classrooms and the media is an entirely different entity, it is completely fiction. We live in a country built on adult fairy tales.

[edit on 10-12-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by Dutty_Rag

Taxes are a fact of life

I think it’s the lies that upset people. I have no problem paying taxes, but many disagree on how they should be paid, how things should be taxed, and how our government handles our money. And the lack of transparency, the lack of our ability to know everything they do with our money.

reply to post by ProjectChaos


I don't need to see a movie to realice the working people and small businesses are the real slaves in united states . socking blood out of my vens each second of the day . I was fooled for many years and blindfolded. :I am very disapointed

reply to post by jimmyx

You also failed to say if 'You' were one of those who 'Would'. . . Risk. I myself feel that it will become inevitable. . . 'Freedom ISN'T Free'