What does the flag mean to you?

To me, flags are nothing more than relics of our medieval history - they are a banner for the patriot to rally to, and a symbol for the elite to ward away those who would harm those who follow that flag.


Very little has changed over the past 600 years when it comes to foreign politics, things just got bigger.

reply to post by Darth Logan


I did not say I wanted to burn the flag...but that I would, gladly, if it no longer stood for freedom or liberty - which IMO, we're almost there.

It boggles the mind how people cannot see that the flag is a symbol of an ideal. If the ideal is diminished or destroyed, does the flag have value? I would argue that the remaining value would only be sentimental.

edit to add: Those soldiers are fighting for freedom and liberty. Exercising my freedom of speech rights by burning the flag to express my dissatisfaction is the ultimate proof of victory for those soldiers. If I lose my rights, they have fought in vain.

[edit on 17/3/08 by kosmicjack]

The American flag stands for the fact that cloth can be very important. It is against the law to let the flag touch the ground or to leave the flag flying when the weather is bad. The flag has to be treated with respect. You can tell just how important this cloth is because when you compare it to people, it gets much better treatment. Nobody cares if a homeless person touches the ground. A homeless person can lie all over the ground all night long without anyone picking him up, folding him neatly and sheltering him from the rain.

Source What The American Flag Stands For

I thought this had alot of truth to it, but Dave's remarks still ring true. If not for the blood and life lost for our country by our soldiers then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The flag is just a flag and should never be more important than human life itself. But just like a team countries have mascots and the flags are them. But the team is what counts the most.

[edit on 3/17/2008 by Solarskye]

reply to post by Wilsonfrisk


You don't have to pay income taxes.The IRS cannot require and cannot legally win a case if you take them to court for nonpayment of Income taxes. But it is unfortunate you do have pay property taxes.

reply to post by lilwolf


The flag is a symbol of national pride and should not be disgraced by anyone in any way. I think flag burners are twisted ego trip nutjobs who crave for attention. I would also love to see zero U.S. soldiers in the middle east and everywhere else for that matter. Stop the NWO and all that other good stuff.

Originally posted by Wilsonfrisk

Originally posted by psychedeliackI am not forced to do anything but follow the laws, and that is only asked of me.

You don't pay income tax? Property tax?

I would if they asked me to.
Is it illegal to be a bum? No, its not. people take part in VANITY out of free will. No one is forced to work and live in a house, but if you want to, there is a price to pay, its called money and taxes.

I guess I would be a bit perturbed if I had some land that was owned by my family since before the government made up taxes and then they went and tried to make me pay for land Id been on for free forever until then. Wait a second, what about the native americans?

[edit on 3/17/2008 by psychedeliack]

reply to post by kosmicjack


Im sorry, I misunderstood your post. I do apologize.

to me, the flag means nationalism & nation building

Originally posted by Darth Logan
reply to post by Wilsonfrisk

 

You don't have to pay income taxes.The IRS cannot require and cannot legally win a case if you take them to court for nonpayment of Income taxes. But it is unfortunate you do have pay property taxes.

Surely you heard about Ed Brown? And Gordon Khal, less recently?

www.youtube.com...

They will in fact kill or imprison you for not paying income tax.

Though people have got off before as well. You have about a 50/50 chance of getting put in prison or murdered.

The flag means a lot to me, but I will probably still PO a lot of people before I'm through with this statement.
I am a 7 year disabled vet of the first Iraq war.

The flag symbolizes America, the ideal America which did not even exist when I was growing up. It is a symbol which a lot of men decided was worth fighting and dieing for.

Even wiser men understood that it was a symbol which the things it represented were worth fighting and dieing for.

If you did not see the difference please re-read the above, until you do.

For the first group I respect your sacrifice and your commitment. But you are too easily subject to manipulation. When the majority of those who can be called to action are swayed by the symbol to abandon the things the symbol represents, they have become their own undoing.

Respect the symbol, cherish the ideal, and do not allow others to confuse the two.

Nothing PO's me more than when some spin doctor justifies our fighting men suffering and dieing because it would be an insult to those who died before them, if we considered the lost lives to be wasted.

It is at that point that the familys of the fallen heros should tar and feather the politicians and spin doctors. Because this is only an excuse to expend more young mens lives like so many bullet casings. If a mans life was wasted, hang the bstard who wasted it. Do not send more good men to die for this stupid justification. If they have a good justification for men dieing make them state it clearly.

To honor them is to value their lives. To value their lives is to preserve their lives for nobel action. Not to squander their lives as a rational for justifying the deaths of others already squandered.

I have heard this argument a number of times in my life. And I loathe it. This line is pulled out along with the flag waving with every military action.

I am not referring to any particular time this has occured, I am not making judgement of the expendature of American lives in any particular action. I am just talking about rational preservation of values, and not being led like a bull with a ring through it's nose.

Keep your eye on the meatball or someone else will eat your lunch.

People that are ashamed of the flag are not being very objective.
We lose what we abuse, so by hating and burning the flag you are abusing a freedom that you will eventually lose. How ironic.

The plain and simple flag is the original symbol of this country that represents everything America stands for, democracy & freedom.

I think the haters are confusing the simple version with one that has replaced it.
I am referring to gold trim-fringed flag and the golden eagle on the flag pole top.



Get That Gold Fringe Off My Flag

reply to post by Alxandro


Alxandro, Please provide information on who is doing this to flags.

I understand your point in general, but I think you should provide more detail on the degree of actual use of the fringed and eagled flag.
Has this become common practice?

Thanks, nice post. It's very curious that this would be done. Perhaps it is being done in other countries where we have our flags manufactured.

Not that we should ever export the manufacture of our flag.
And not to say that the majority are not made outside the USA.

I really don't know who is doing this to the flag much less why it is even being allowed to happen. Seems like it has become the norm now since these flags are now everywhere. It's as if they were gradually modified over time right under our noses.
Funny how we tend to take things for granted.

I'll see what I can find on this.

Actually the flag doesn't mean squat. Its just a symbol, and like all symbols it means what we decide it means.

As it stands any and every two bit politician wraps him/herself in it to make themselves seem more patriotic and loyal.... no matter how slimy they are and no matter if they oozed out from under the Republican rock or from under the Democratic rock.

We have done much good and much evil under those colors but just because someone waves it in my face doesn't mean I am going to jump up and salute it.

I am much more interested in the ideals we profess and the disconnect between them and our actions than I am the flag or any other national symbol.

Also considering that flags are required by law to be made from flame retardant materials the whole burning the flag issue is just a knee jerk ploy exercise to get people all riled up and it works every time...

somewhere in the background Pavlov's dog is drooling.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by grover]

To some it may be nothing more than a piece of cloth.
I am not one of those people.
Do I disagree with my Commander In Chief and his policies? Yes I do.
What does the flag mean to me? When I see her flying I get goosebumps. It means that I can live in freedom. Yes I said freedom. While some may complain that they have no freedoms, I ask that they take a look at what freedoms they do have. I can within reason do whatever I want, whenever I want. My grandparents from both sides of my family came to America from a foreign land. The land of opportunity. They knew that the flag symbolized the opportunity they had to make their lives better.
When I see my flag I thank god that I have the freedoms she symbolizes. I salute to every brave man and woman who fought to defend her. I would gladly die to defend her.
Ask a mother who has a folded flag to remember a fallen child what the flag means.
When you see a flag at half mast, it is to honor someone who has fallen.
The flag is more than a couple of colors painted on a sheet. It symbolizes everything I believe in, and stand for.
I love my flag, and treat her with honor.

reply to post by lilwolf


i think what most flag protesters detest is how it is used to seperate and divide people. for each of us...well, at least me...the american flag has a very different and sometimes emotional feeling attached to it. but i would instantly hate a person that would use the flag to question a persons loyalty to this country. being 55, i had friends that came back for vietnam pretty screwed up, but they fiercely defended the flag, because it was the symbol of home and the loved ones they left behind. and it helped save their sanity from the nightmare of that conflict. so for the people that do protest the flag, consider your fellow american that put his personal life on hold, his physical life in jepordy, and had to push the mental scares down the "rabbit hole". that said...for a politician to wrap himself in the flag and use it to denigrate and label a person as un-american, just to forward his own agenda, cheapens what our soldiers, have and are, fighting for. and that...is what we, as civilians and military together, should be d-mn p-ssed off about.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by jimmyx]

i have to admit i used to be fairly nationalistic, but recently, perhaps because of the worldwide calamites, i've realized that we are all truly one, and not only humans but the rest of creation too, i wish i woke up to this sooner so that I could have spent more of my days "in perfect consideration" of nature... but I still thank God for waking up even at this late date, there is still a chance for me and others to live and walk on his very narrow path...

reply to post by bitbeam


Good for you. Its so much easier to hate... its so much easier to look the other way... its so much easier to blame someone else...

Accepting the reality that we are all one and what happens to one happens to all is much harder...

In the long run only ideas keep up apart.

I wasn't going to post in this but what the hell..

I used to think the flag meant a lot to people i guess it does..

To me after looking at the 4th of July fireworks in Pgh and the music they had all patriotic stuff.. Anyway the point is this..

While listening to that music and knowing what is going on(THANKS ATS FOR THIS) I can literally see that the flag our constitution and everything else that you people are talking about fighting for has gone straight to hell..

I was thinking when my kids grow up and listen to those patriotic tunes they will think these exact thoughts.. "WTF ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT!!! WE ARENT FREE!!! WHY DID PEOPLE WANNA COME HERE!!!"

That's all I can see... What America meant before I would love to see cause really today it don't mean a damn thing.

I dont want you guys to flame me.. Altho my sig says something else.. I am saying this as a person looking at all aspects.. The conviction in the music them people did and seeing today.. You really dont see what they did...

All of the sudden complete idiots began to wave my flag. I don't want it anymore. It links me to them.