What's the significance of the hand sign with first & last fingers extended?

pretty much

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
pretty much

I met a satanist about a year ago, and he was telling me some of the ins and outs of his religeon. Anyway, he explained to me, that satanist use the symbol for there guardian demons and to let other satanist know there not alone. When at a public gathering or a resteraunt they keep there index and pinky fingers hanging over the tables edge as a sign that others may know who they can talk to about satanism. The satanism symbol was very differnt from the I love you symbol, as it didn't hold the thumb out, the thumb was tucked in by the 2 middle fingers. He was trying to explain to me that instead of guardian angels they had guardian demons that they believed in and they were always behind them ready to leap into action if they needed it.

Who says you can't be older and have invisible friends?

I can't imagine bush and company using this in public if they are satanist, but hey they may have knocked down the world trade center, and are working on world war III, so why not give leave a few *#@& You symbols laying around for the world

I've always been a fan of this hand sign more than rock on. Also, it's pretty hard to get "satanic" out of "hang loose."

i still think its weird that Rock Stars (rock a title for God in the bible, star for angel) are also Idols (obvious connotation) who play at a concert (a large ceremonial gathering), utilize negative symbology (upside down pentagram)

and have large crowds making a devil / rock and roll sign (btw rolling away the rock is why they call it that), with long hair (symbolizing a veil or vamprisim), headbanging (bowing to the Idols repititiously) while the entire crowd is being effected with virbrations (eastern religions say everything is vibrations) emminating from loudspeakers.

and its has an overtly punk/anarchist / devil theme to it. The band names already being mentioned as KISS (knights in satans service) etc... (by itself kiss might refer to kiss of death, roses/troubadores).

but not to get all offensive on Rock , bubble pop is by far the greater of the evils (no im not joking, its WAAAY worse). The thing is that most people would never come to these conclusions, therefor the hidden becomes irrelevant. If the music sucked, people wouldnt listen too it, only the good hits are remembered (although constant media barrages condition tastes. And in no way does that excuse bubble pop).

*edited a grammatical error.

[edit on 2006-7-5 by NuTroll]

Originally posted by Jeff Alder
I've always been a fan of this hand sign more than rock on. Also, it's pretty hard to get "satanic" out of "hang loose."

i was under the impression that "the wave" was symbolic of transhumanism enlightenment of an entire population, and that by "hanging lose" or riding the wave one was advancing the cause or knew alot about it.

Originally posted by NuTroll


and have large crowds making a devil / rock and roll sign (btw rolling away the rock is why they call it that),

Actually, "rock and roll" was a slang term for sexual intercourse first used by jazz musicians in the 1950's. That's why they call it that.

with long hair (symbolizing a veil or vamprisim),

What does long hair have to do with vampires? I don't remember Bram Stoker ever saying that Count Dracula was a hippie, or that he played Woodstock.

and its has an overtly punk/anarchist / devil theme to it. The band names already being mentioned as KISS (knights in satans service) etc... (by itself kiss might refer to kiss of death, roses/troubadores).

But, as I've already mentioned, Kiss doesn't stand for "Knights In Satan's Service". They were going to play a gig in the early '70's under the name F***. The venue refused to bill them that way, so they switched it to Kiss.

rock, also had a religious connotation . the usage of rock and roll meaning sex is synonymous with the meaning i put in my last post. The usage of Sex as a rapture goes back to the old genesis 3 story.

from wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org...

the scene of the first fusion of heavily rhythmic African shuffles and sand dances with melody-driven European genres, particularly the Irish jig. Rocking was a term first used by black gospel singers in the American South to mean something akin to spiritual rapture. By the 1940s, however, the term was used as a double entendre, ostensibly referring to dancing, but with the hidden subtextual meaning of sex; an example of this is Roy Brown's "Good Rocking Tonight."

The vamprism connection of long hair is hair's symbolic of a veil on a bride/woman (corinthians 11). Combination of long hair on a man is a way of an expressing an idea i think goes back to crowley, that by combination of male/female in one person could be used as a subsitute method of magick. of course magick and magic would play a heavy role in a concert (symbols all over the place, manipulating crowd energy etc...). I think hair also symbolizes angels/ power (like the wings on tyrael, a character from diablo 2 by blizzard entertainment), but i was unable to find the link.

Even if that name was not originally intended to be an acronym, why would that myth have survived down to 2006? also from wikipedia

Stanley is credited with coming up with the name and the logo, while Frehley came up with the idea of making the "SS" look like lightning bolts, because he said that it "looked cool." The letters happened to look similar to the insignia of the Nazi SS, or Waffen-SS, a symbol that is now illegal to display in Germany. Therefore, in Germany, all of the band's album covers and merchandise used a modified version of the logo, in which the "SS" looks like a backwards "ZZ

if that was intentional, it explains the neo nazi and overtly devil themes in rock, which can again be traced back to sex magick and crowley. If they could design a logo based of nazi, i dont know why its so hard to believe they couldnt pick a name with that acronym in mind.

Originally posted by NuTroll
i was under the impression that "the wave" was symbolic of transhumanism enlightenment of an entire population, and that by "hanging lose" or riding the wave one was advancing the cause or knew alot about it.

That could very well be, but as far as I knew it was a surfing term that meant to take it easy and relax, because everything works itself out in the end.

Originally posted by NuTroll

The vamprism connection of long hair is hair's symbolic of a veil on a bride/woman (corinthians 11). Combination of long hair on a man is a way of an expressing an idea i think goes back to crowley, that by combination of male/female in one person could be used as a subsitute method of magick.

Actually, long hair on men has been pretty common throughout history, at least until the spread of the Roman Empire, as the Roman men were generally clean shaven and kept short hair. When I was a kid, I wore my hair extremely long. This had much more to do with my involvement in rock n roll than in any Crowleyan androgynous theories.

Besides, Crowley, for the most part, shaved his head after he started going bald, and never wore long hair. I therefore can't contribute any "long hair theories" to him. Interestingly, though, Albert Pike wore both his hair and his beard quite long; he looked much more like a member of the Allman Brothers than a philosopher and attorney.

Even if that name was not originally intended to be an acronym, why would that myth have survived down to 2006?

There are myths that have been around much longer than that.

Stanley is credited with coming up with the name and the logo, while Frehley came up with the idea of making the "SS" look like lightning bolts, because he said that it "looked cool." The letters happened to look similar to the insignia of the Nazi SS, or Waffen-SS, a symbol that is now illegal to display in Germany. Therefore, in Germany, all of the band's album covers and merchandise used a modified version of the logo, in which the "SS" looks like a backwards "ZZ

if that was intentional, it explains the neo nazi and overtly devil themes in rock, which can again be traced back to sex magick and crowley. If they could design a logo based of nazi, i dont know why its so hard to believe they couldnt pick a name with that acronym in mind.

Ace was the only member of the band who wasn't Jewish. I tend the think the Nazi SS similarity was done on purpose as a jibe against the other members. We can't forget that infamous interview when Ace showed up drunk, mentioned that the other guys were Jews, then gave the Nazi salute (after which he was roundly scolded by Gene on live TV).

However, since Paul is Jewish, and is the one who named the band, I hardly think he's a neo-Nazi. Paul is interested in eastern mysticism, while gene is an atheist. Therefore, it is unlikely that they would consider themselves "in Satan's service".

whether or not crowley shaved his head is kind of irrelevant. Im linking the idea of combination of divine male / female by crowley with angel/viel/woman to long hair. Butt length hair on a guy isnt that common, maybe shoulder length would be considerd long by todays standards.

the nazis were obsessed with eastern religion, and KiSS is not an isolated example of neo nazism showing up in rock or metal.

[edit on 2006-7-7 by NuTroll]

Originally posted by NuTroll
Butt length hair on a guy isnt that common, maybe shoulder length would be considerd long by todays standards.

Maybe, but Kiss's day was in the '70's, when it was relatively common.

the nazis were obsessed with eastern religion, and KiSS is not an isolated example of neo nazism showing up in rock or metal.

First, I can't completely agree that the Nazis were obsessed with eastern religion. They were, however, obsessed with power. Some of the Nazis, especially Himmler, had studied eastern religion, but on the whole it was frowned up because of their non-Germanic origins. The Nazi religion was that of the divinity of the state.

Also, I can't consider Kiss to be any example of neo-Nazism. Three of the four members were Jewish, and Ace's Nazi allusions were done tongue-in-cheek. Blue Oyster Cult were also accused of having Nazi sympathies, mostly because of their song "ME262" on the Secret Treaties album, which tells the tale of a Luftwaffe bomber pilot. However, it was a concept album exploring what BOC saw as the occult forces at work behind World War II.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by Masonic Light]

ill agree with the exploration of occult forces in WWII. but there are plenty more examples of metals involvement with "death"

I think a good book was written by Peter Levenda, Unholy Alliance : A history of Nazi involvement in the Occult. It explains (among other things)the sanskrit Aryan bloodline theories of the nazi , himmlers expeditions, the nazi logo (sun symbol, and why it turns to the right vs the left), the volkisch (sp?) folklore movement and the thule society.

It was not frowned upon at all

Originally posted by NuTroll
ill agree with the exploration of occult forces in WWII. but there are plenty more examples of metals involvement with "death"

I don't much about metal, I'm a flower child.

I think a good book was written by Peter Levenda, Unholy Alliance : A history of Nazi involvement in the Occult. It explains (among other things)the sanskrit Aryan bloodline theories of the nazi , himmlers expeditions, the nazi logo (sun symbol, and why it turns to the right vs the left), the volkisch (sp?) folklore movement and the thule society.

It was not frowned upon at all

It's important not to confuse those things of the Nazis with eastern mysticism. Eastern thought is white light: its mysticism is that of benevolence, selflessness, and wisdom. Nazism is the exact opposite. The Nazis were to mysticism what the devil is to Christianity.

A lot of Nazi occultism, if not all of it, came from the aforementioned Thule Society, which was a perversion of Theosophy. Thule, like the Nazis, considered the Germanic people to be superior, and therefore pretended that the eastern Adepts were "inferior races" and that their knowledge was "corrupted".

Originally posted by Jeff Alder
I've always been a fan of this hand sign more than rock on. Also, it's pretty hard to get "satanic" out of "hang loose."

i wasn't talking about the hang loose sign, i was talking about the pinky and index fingers as being the only ones extended. no thumb, no hang loose, no shaka da kain brother, no surfer stuff.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by NuTroll
ill agree with the exploration of occult forces in WWII. but there are plenty more examples of metals involvement with "death"

I don't much about metal, I'm a flower child.

I think a good book was written by Peter Levenda, Unholy Alliance : A history of Nazi involvement in the Occult. It explains (among other things)the sanskrit Aryan bloodline theories of the nazi , himmlers expeditions, the nazi logo (sun symbol, and why it turns to the right vs the left), the volkisch (sp?) folklore movement and the thule society.

It was not frowned upon at all

It's important not to confuse those things of the Nazis with eastern mysticism. Eastern thought is white light: its mysticism is that of benevolence, selflessness, and wisdom. Nazism is the exact opposite. The Nazis were to mysticism what the devil is to Christianity.

A lot of Nazi occultism, if not all of it, came from the aforementioned Thule Society, which was a perversion of Theosophy. Thule, like the Nazis, considered the Germanic people to be superior, and therefore pretended that the eastern Adepts were "inferior races" and that their knowledge was "corrupted".

Okay, I've been on a wild chase through dozens of sites, and i'm back to report that:

It looks like the gesture has 6 or so meanings, BUT there is a significance to: right or left hand, palm facing or palm outward; fingers over thumb or thumb over fingers (the extended thumb is a completely different symbol).

So IMHO (except my opinion is never humble) the pop culture co-opting of this ancient sign just muddied the waters.

To those within cults, the specifics of usage distinguish a member from a non-member just like the secret Masonic handshake and hand signals.

So why do people that are not from Texas Salute teh longhorns?
Like tony blair for example Im sure he has never in his life watcheda Longhorns game.
I found many pics of these prominent people throwing up the ole II Cornuto - Diabolicus

they arent the devils horns. it was popularized by ronny james dio, the ex singer of black sabbath and actuall singer of the band DIO. It´s an old italian sign used by weird grandmothers to repel bad spirits.