Hydrogen Pump in Service

A few months ago I was at a trade show here in Las Vegas setting up booths for Shell Oil company. At this show they revealed their new Hydrogen pump for cars. The sales rep told me they had one in service already in Washington DC. and that within 10 years they would create a "Hydrogen Highway" down both coasts to serve the most populated region.

Back in 1969, the University of Toronto was offering a Hydrogen conversion kit for $680.00. It included a new carbuerator, a nickle foam tank and a set of rear springs because of the weight of the tank. Hydrogen was available from Medical gas suppliers.

I always wondered why Hydrogen never took on... the danger [real], conspiracy of the oil boys[Nah... after all they could control it]. The Shell sales rep explained there were two reasons. One is the infrastructure needed to store and dispense the Hydrogen. It would be very expensive for a new startup company to place stations all across America.[Makes sense].

But the main reason was coming up with a safe and easy to use for self serve dispenser! [I never even thought about that] Hydrogen is very explosive and a small static spark would easily set it off.[remember the Hindenburg?] They claim their new pump is that safe dispensor. I saw it. Its easy to use!

Last week, Shell Hydrogen opened the first-ever hydrogen pump at a retail service station in Washington, D.C.

The event marked a milestone in an ongoing collaboration between Shell Oil Co., General Motors and the U.S. Department of Energy. The public/private coalition was created to demonstrate the viability of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and the refueling infrastructure that will be necessary to support them.

External Source

Here is a picture of it in operation.

Hydrogen Pump

And before all you conspiracy nuts[meant most affectionately] go jumping the gun about how Bush and his Oil buddies will squash this...[don't forget Shell IS one of those Oil buddies]... here he is filling up!!

Bush uses Hydrogen Fuel

[edit on 26-6-2006 by zorgon]

posted by zorgon

Shell Oil company revealed a new Hydrogen pump for cars. The sales rep said within 10 years Shell would create a "hydrogen highway" down both coasts to serve the most populated region. In 1969, the University of Toronto offered a hydrogen conversion kit for $680.00. It included a new carbuerator, a nickle foam tank and a set of rear springs because of the weight of the tank. Hydrogen was available from medical gas suppliers.

One [cause of delay] is the infrastructure needed to store and dispense hydrogen. It would be very expensive for a startup company to place stations all across America. But the main reason was developing a safe and easy to use for self serve dispenser!

Hydrogen is very explosive and a small static spark would easily set it off. Shell claims their new pump is a safe dispensor. I saw it. Its easy to use!

Last week, Shell Hydrogen opened the first-ever hydrogen pump at a retail service station in Washington, D.C.

[Edited by Don W]

I thought most retail gas stations were owned by private entrepreneurs? The mayor of Jax owns 20 or so retail gas stations. He is a multi-millionaire. At 300,000 gallons per month per station, and 2 cents per gallon profit, times 20 stations, he must make at least $120,000 a month, gross profit. The markup is closer to 10 cents a gallon, so I’m talking the owner’s share. I digress.

Point? If there was money to be made in opening a new hydrogen station, it would not take a new startup company to do it. 10s of 1000s of local “boys” would jump right in!

There must be a reason. Anything Shell can do, Exxon can do. Or Texaco. Or Occidental, and etc. Methinks Shell is trying to pull an ADM on Congress.

Back around the mid or late 1970s, my hometown of Louisville gas utility company opened a hydrogen station and bought a half dozen GM pickups outfitted for hydrogen. A lot of hoopla. Ribbon cutting. All that. Then, after a couple years, it was quietly closed. No ribbon cutting then. Conclusion? It did not work. Reason? My guess is it is too expensive to compress the hydrogen. Cryogenics. Too cold. A 50 gallon tank might weight 300 pounds and carry you 100 miles. Uh-uh.

The issue over making a safe customer operated pump smells of 3 day old fish. There is something afoot here and it sounds like money! Taxpayer’s money.

Believe me, if it worked, we’d have it.

Hydrogen fuel only makes sense if you get the hydrogen through renewable powered electrolysis and that means access to vast amounts of Sunlight, Wind, Tidal, and Geothermal energy. An H2 economy only make sense in certain places in the world. The Southwest US is a perfect place for an H2 economy, as is Australia. Other places will have to make do with Flexi-fuel hybrids, electric drive and mass transit.

Hydrogen is easely conbustable by a tiny spark when its in gasious form.
In liquid form its about as hard to egnite as any other currently used fuel.
All you need to make sure is that there is no leakage in the system.

Considering LPG has been around for quite some time too and I personaly never heard about a leak at either gasstation or a professionaly installed tank in a car, Hydrogen shouldn't be that much harder.

Originally posted by thematrix
Hydrogen is easely conbustable by a tiny spark when its in gasious form.
In liquid form its about as hard to egnite as any other currently used fuel.
All you need to make sure is that there is no leakage in the system.

Quite true. LP gas has the same issues and as you say there have been no problems. I am not sure if hydrogen evaporates faster than propane or not but you are right, Just make sure there are no leaks.


Funny though, no matter what you bring to this board there are those who doubt it, can't imagine why. You might think I was on a conspiracy board or something

But seriously, I will go buy some stock in Shell Oil... just in case... and as Las Vegas IS in the south west, where we just opened that solar power plant and are planning a windmill farm out in the desert... I think it will be money well spent.


But one last think about the leak. Remember it was a simple rubber o ring that caused the Space Shuttle to blow up. A billion dollar craft and many lives gone in an instant because of a little piece of rubber. Something to keep in mind

...and tell me what you think about this Hydrogen-based gas called Aquafuel. It bypasses the storage problem completely and acts more like propane then anything else. It's also much cleaner then Gasoline and almost as powerful.

Originally posted by donwhite

Point? If there was money to be made in opening a new hydrogen station, it would not take a new startup company to do it. 10s of 1000s of local “boys” would jump right in!

There must be a reason. Anything Shell can do, Exxon can do. Or Texaco. Or Occidental, and etc.

Well those local stations still need supply from the big boys. As to local "boys" jumping in, its more likely a lets wait and see if this goes kinda thing.

Same applies to the other big corporations. Could be patent issue... personally I think its been oil prices. Why go out on a limb with new tech when you have cheap oil? But now oil is climbing, but more important the people are screaming for alternatives. All the hybrids and talk of ethanol is at an all time high in public and coporate awareness.

I would give it a couple years, see where this goes, but we really need to do this. Tell those Desert Robber Barons in the Middle East to "take their oil and......"

But the other big corporations ARE involved! Below a few snippits from news articles taken from the search listings;

"Shell's work with GM will show that filling up the car with hydrogen..."

"Working with Shell Oil Company, BMW has developed a technology for dispensing hydrogen from a filling station's pumps into a car's fuel tanks. ..."

"In what could be a parallel to its purchase of many solar companies, the oil industry is buying in to hydrogen..."

"As a founding member of the California Fuel Cell Partnership, Shell Hydrogen has worked with the other energy members to build early the hydrogen infrastructure for the fuel cell vehicles. Shell Hydrogen is also participating in other significant ventures. Shell Hydrogen and GM have set up a partnership to make hydrogen and fuel cell vehicles a commercial viable opportunity." Source

"The public interest group, Public Citizen reports that the top five oil companies (Exxon Mobil, Shell, BP, Chevron Texaco, and Conoco Phillips) have made ..."Washington Informer

That sure looks like the other big companies are in on it to me

I want to see a steady source of hydrogen thats cheap to make and then ill purchase a hydrogen burning car

Originally posted by sardion2000
...and tell me what you think about this Hydrogen-based gas called Aquafuel

You almost had me there for a minute. I got as far as this...

This is a non fossil combustible gas which is produced by an electric discharge of carbon arcs within distilled, fresh, salt or other types of water, thus being essentially composed of Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon and their compounds.

Where do you get the Carbon out of water? never mind Hydrocarbons? Poluted water perhaps?

Hydrogen Fuel Roadmap

This is a link to a study on what you are discussing. It's pretty comprehensive and answers a lot of questions.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
This is a link to a study on what you are discussing. It's pretty comprehensive and answers a lot of questions.

58 pages! Why does the bleepin government always have to be so long winded? This is gonna take a while. Thanks for the find

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by sardion2000
...and tell me what you think about this Hydrogen-based gas called Aquafuel

You almost had me there for a minute. I got as far as this...

This is a non fossil combustible gas which is produced by an electric discharge of carbon arcs within distilled, fresh, salt or other types of water, thus being essentially composed of Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon and their compounds.

Where do you get the Carbon out of water? never mind Hydrocarbons? Poluted water perhaps?

Had you for what? I was being serious. The Carbon comes from Carbon rods or, as you put it, polluted water. Aquafuel is an adaptation of a newish sewage remediation technology which uses a form of electrolysis to break down the waste into usable fuel(which just so happens to be cleaner then Gasoline if reports are to be believed).

In the system above, simple Carbon rods extracted from a particular type of battery are used as electrodes in H2O electrolysis. The addition of Carbon to the equation changes the molecular structure enough to make a stable, combustable gas much like propane. I've actually been meaning to test this stuff out, but to do lack of time with studies and what not have not been able.(I even have access to emissions certification equipment)

Here is a page I cite often when describing this technology, I do not vouch for the accuracy of the information as there is little information(and interest) in this technology. I do hope to one day confirm for myself what is up and down in this realm of fuel technology.

www.blazelabs.com...

Not only do they describe it fairly well, they also show you how to build one yourself! Of course if you are going to do such a thing then take all the safety precautions necessary.





So basically how this works is you charge the Carbon cathodes(or the tungsten cathodes seperated mere millimeters away from Carbon feedstock) and let the thing bubble and "boil" until you can't collect any more gas. This process erodes the Carbon, which has to be replaced eventually. Distilled water seems to work the best(again if reports are to be believed)

Originally posted by sardion2000
Where do you get the Carbon out of water? never mind Hydrocarbons? Poluted water perhaps?

COH2 can exist. As to how to make it, I have no clue. But it is a very polar molecule according to my "sketch." Take a look at this terrible model I made.



Probably sewage is right. Lol, it is soluable in water.

Its been TWO YEARS since I posted this article... which covered a story from November 2005...

Recently their was a thread created talking about a "new" Japanese 'invention' A car that runs on water....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I posted the following posts in that thread, but felt since this thread was more appropriate for the update on this article, I am reposting them here. I feel strongly that this information is of great importance and needs to be supported...

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
That is still the case I'm afraid. Hydrogen is at a higher energy state than water - you will always have to add energy.

You forget one thing... oil dependency and shelling out at the pumps so the Saudi's can all drive a Mercedes and not pay one dime of income tax... thanks to us...

You CAN however make a deal with Canada and stick a couple of dams on a few rivers in the north... and build your hydrogen electrolysis plant right next to it..

You get tons of water... loads of FREE electricity one the initial cost of the dam is covered and can export electricity into the grid as well

There is one dam in Northern Quebec that zaps have of its generated power into the ground due to lack of costumers...

So why don't we do that and tell them Oil Sheiks where they can put their oil?

And don't try to tell me electricity 'generated' at a dam isn't free energy... The water is flowing downhill regardless of what we do... if we stick a waterwheel into it that sucks electrons out of the ether in the process so much the better

I mean just where did you think those electrons come from, Hmmm?

So once you build the plant and the dam... exported power will cover maintenance... Canada already offered to build THREE such dams on the same river... Quebec needs the revenue and the jobs... they already did the environmental study.... the creation of three new reservoirs in that region would not have a major negative impact, and would in fact provide more fishing grounds

But for some reason the deal fell through

And what are we talking now? More oil drilling in the arctic although we already stopped it three times to protect the Arctic Wildlife Refuge...

But now Herr Bush wants to drill again...because he says the Russians plan to tap into it from their side...

China wants to keep Tibet... because they found billions of barrels of oil and Exxon is already helping them build a pipeline...

If it wasn't for Shell Oil we wouldn't ever see Hydrogen at the pumps


You people want to see a price drop? Its very simple really...

BOYCOTT GASOLINE

Yeah yeah I know Americans will never do without their cars... BUT If you BOYCOTT EXXON and their partners and bought only Shell or other non Exxon affiliate...

Now THAT would have power... How long do you think Exxon's Shareholders will put up with that?

Why Exxon? Well for one they recorded recorded EVER quarter profits right after we went to 'war' with Iraq...

But I know Americans have become DOCILE SHEEP these days... no one will make this happen...

Why support Shell? Because THEY ARE GIVING US HYDROGEN

Stay tuned and I will show ya... because I know y'awl are to lazy to look it up

I have heard a lot of talk saying we will NEVER have Hydrogen at the pumps... and have seen many similar posts here at ATS...


The reasons given...
A) Too expensive to produce
B) To dangerous to carry in the tank
C) To dangerous for self serve stations (you do NOT want a static spark near this stuff and forget about smoking)
D) The Oil Companies won't let it happen...

I am sure there are more... but I think that is enough..

Well seeing that we are here to Deny Ignorance... let me see if I can make you all a little less 'ignorant'. And please to those saying 'it will never happen..." have you ever heard of GOOGLE?

Now I made a thread on this right after I saw the new Hydrogen pump released here in Vegas.. posted on 26-6-2006 @ 12:38 AM Got TWO responses... go figure... and now the Japanese are doing it, its front page news? HA America deserves it's OIL BARONS

Well I will try again... as Shell has been busy since...




Shell opened the first public H Station in Washington DC TWO YEARS AGO...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am going to print a letter from Duncan Macleod
Vice President Shell Hydrogen

About Shell Hydrogen
September 25, 2007

The development of hydrogen from its discovery as a chemical element to taking up a position as the most important source of energy of the future is a journey through the past and the future. A journey with ups and downs, with both loyal and lapsed fellow travellers, and in constantly changing circumstances.

Along this journey, Shell Hydrogen wishes to play a leading role and champion the realisation of a hydrogen-based economy. By actively collaborating with other market parties in creating an infrastructure for hydrogen that will enable this source of energy to become globally accessible for the everyday consumer. With this in mind, Shell has developed a clear strategy; a strategy that takes account of technical, economic and political developments, but at the same time is based on the company’s own ideas and its acquired expertise.

Who we are

Shell Hydrogen is a global business of the Shell Group with headquarters in The Hague, the Netherlands, and regional bases in Houston and Tokyo. Shell Hydrogen was set up in 1999 to pursue and develop business opportunities related to hydrogen and fuel cells.

Our goal

Our goal is to bring hydrogen into a retail setting. Shell already has a hydrogen platform of production nodes all over the world. Over 50 million tonnes are produced and consumed every year. Through existing and planned demonstration projects Shell Hydrogen is currently building up our experience in connecting these production nodes with our retail infrastructure. Bringing hydrogen out of its industrial settings into the everyday lives of people, to places where consumers can access it as a fuel for their vehicles.

Our strategy

We foresee the global hydrogen economy as a new structure in which hydrogen represents an important component of the portfolio of energy sources and fuels, and as a realistic alternative to the world's present wide-scale use of hydrocarbon fuels. The broad-based application of hydrogen offers a solution to current problems such as the dependency on finite fuels and uncertainty concerning energy supplies and air pollution Hydrogen could be a clean and abundant source of energy, to meet the world’s increasing demand. To actually be able to market hydrogen within the foreseeable future, Shell is operating along two channels. Firstly, Shell wishes to broaden its expertise, make the public more aware of the application and use of hydrogen by initiating and encouraging hydrogen-based projects. Secondly, Shell is actively supporting technological development essential for rendering hydrogen accessible to a broader market.

What we do

We work with partners to promote and support the development of the infrastructure and technical solutions that the world needs to make hydrogen a practical, safe and efficient fuel. We are actively involved in demonstration projects around the world. We are the only major energy company involved in fuel cell vehicle demonstrations in all three major hydrogen markets – Japan, North America and Europe. We are building new fuelling stations for hydrogen, or are adapting existing locations for that purpose. We are partners in two investment funds, supplying venture capital to early and latter stage companies in the hydrogen sector, to help develop the hydrogen economy.

Part of the Shell Group

Shell Hydrogen’s strength lies in being a key business of the Shell Group - an organisation that shares the hydrogen vision at its most senior levels. At the same time we are able to draw from the Group’s international experience in introducing new fuels. For more information, please visit projects.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Okay so they are based in The Hague, the Netherlands, which means more than likely they have strong Bilderberg Club ties... but at least they are offering us an alternative.. so perhaps the lesser evil....

continued...

Benning Road Station Washington DC

This was the first station I reported on two years ago... Here is Herr Bush filling up... (only problem is he forgot the nozzle I think he seriously needs new PR people )



Now when I present this it was ALREADY OVER ONE YEAR IN OPERATION

First hydrogen pump operates in public/private fuel program
(NOVEMBER 2004)

Shell Oil's projects to reduce carbon emissions include a hydrogen refueling station in Washington, D.C. President Bush visited the station on May 25, 2005, posing with a fuel cell vehicle prototype that runs on hydrogen.

Houston Business Journal
by Monica Perin Houston Business Journal
Friday, November 19, 2004

Last week, Shell Hydrogen opened the first-ever hydrogen pump at a retail service station in Washington, D.C.

The event marked a milestone in an ongoing collaboration between Shell Oil Co., General Motors and the U.S. Department of Energy. The public/private coalition was created to demonstrate the viability of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and the refueling infrastructure that will be necessary to support them.

The retail station will service a fleet of GM minivans operating in the nation's capital, giving legislators and policymakers opportunities to ride in and drive the alternative-fuel vehicles.

www.bizjournals.com...

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Bush Touts Hydrogen, Pushes for Energy Bill


The president gets a tutorial on fueling a hydrogen-powered car by Shell's Rick Scott.
(Photo by Paul Morse courtesy White House)

Environment News Service
By J.R. Pegg
May 26, 2005

WASHINGTON, DC, May 26, 2005 (ENS) - Hydrogen is "the wave of the future," President George W. Bush said Wednesday during a visit to a hydrogen fueling station in Washington, D.C.

The clean fuel offers the United States a road away from its increasing dependence on foreign oil, said Bush, who again called on Congress to pass a comprehensive energy bill.

"Congress has been talking too long about the energy bill," Bush said. "I'm getting a little tired of waiting … for the sake of energy independence, they've got to get me a bill."

www.thelivingmoon.com...

The car you ask?

HydoGen3 from General Motors

Here is a peek under the hood...



continued....

Shell Retail Hydrogen Station Reykjavik, Iceland Opened April 2003

The first Shell-branded hydrogen station at a Shell retail site anywhere in the world, was opened in Reykjavik, Iceland on 24th April 2003.



Hydrogen fueled bus Iceland...



www.thelivingmoon.com...

Showa Shell Seikyu KK Tokyo, Japan June 2003

Showa Shell Seikyu KK opened the first liquid hydrogen refueling station in Tokyo, constructed in partnership with Iwatani Corporation and the Tokyo Metropolitan Government in June 2003



www.thelivingmoon.com...

Tokyo Hydrogen Bus...




Wake up America or get left behind at the pumps...




continued...

[edit on 19-6-2008 by zorgon]

Hydrogen Buses Amsterdam, Netherlands

The Amsterdam transport company (GVB) will be testing three fuel cell buses in Amsterdam, The Netherlands as part of the Clean Urban Transport for Europe Project (CUTE).



Buses at refueling station in Amsterdam... well it IS their home port afterall



www.thelivingmoon.com...

Hydrogen Buses Luxembourg

Commercial only filling station... Luxembourg



www.thelivingmoon.com...







First hydrogen refueling station opens in Shanghai
November 15, 2007
Shell Oil Press Release

Shanghai, 15 November, 2007: China Ministry of Science and Technology, Shanghai government, Tongji University and Shell Hydrogen today announced the opening of the first hydrogen refueling station in Shanghai for fuel cell vehicles.

The Anting Hydrogen refueling station, located at the International Automotive City in Anting, Shanghai, will dispense compressed gaseous hydrogen for a fleet of fuel cell cars and buses operating in the Shanghai region.

The Shanghai government has already helped to deliver dozens of fuel cell vehicles operating in Shanghai, and this is planned to grow exponentially by 2010, including fuel cell buses sponsored by the Global Environmental Facility (GEF) through the United Nations Development Programme.

Tongji University is responsible for the development and operation of the new hydrogen station, with Shell contributing technical advice and part of the funding. The station also features an information centre on the hydrogen economy.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

www.shell.com...


SHANGHAI???

Well at least they haven't forgotten about US


White Plains Dedication, New York
November 13, 2007
Shell Oil Press Release

City of White Plains, New York
SHELL HYDROGEN AND CITY OF WHITE PLAINS DEDICATE HYDROGEN FUELING FACILITY

Shell will provide fuel for City of White Plains and GM vehicles

Houston, Texas - Shell Hydrogen LLC and the City of White Plains, New York, today dedicated a hydrogen vehicle fueling facility located in the city's department of public works yard in downtown White Plains.

The Shell Hydrogen facility will produce hydrogen from electricity generated from renewable energy provided through the New York Power Authority. "The City of White Plains has shown real leadership in cooperating on this project with Shell. White Plains' successful track record in introducing alternate fuels for city vehicles are a great fit with Shell Hydrogen's efforts to develop solutions to transportation and energy challenges," said Phillip Baxley, President of Shell

www.thelivingmoon.com...

www.shell.com...

continued....

BMW Hydrogen 7

BMW, the German car manufacturer, wants you to know that they believe hydrogen is the fuel source of the future. In order to do this, they have created the BMW Hydrogen 7, an all hydrogen powered luxury sedan that produces zero emissions. It’s serious business, or so says BMW, which is why they have enlisted the help of comedian and well known car enthusiast Jay Leno.

Text

Honda Hydrogen Car FCX-Clarity


You can lease one on a three year lease for only 600 per month



automobiles.honda.com...

Now then All you guys out there screaming HOAX I want you to go to the tail pipe of your favorite gas guzzler and suck in a deep lung full of exhaust... It will be good for you as you are obviously hooked

The rest of you go out an BOYCOTT EXXON/IMPERIAL OIL/CHEVRON that used to be STANDARD OIL and is the bread and butter.... errrmmm caviar and champagne of the Bush Family and the Rockefellars...

And go and support SHELL

If not your all hypocrites and deserve the OIL BARONS cutting your purse strings

REMEMBER THE EXXON VALDEZ!!!!



[edit on 19-6-2008 by zorgon]

One more little bit of news...

Honda Home Energy Station

Seem Honda has had an experimental house... here in the USA... since 2003!!!

Honda has operated an experimental Home Energy Station in Torrance, California, since 2003. The Home Energy Station, which generates hydrogen from natural gas, is designed to provide heat and electricity for the home through fuel cell cogeneration and to supply fuel for a hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle.

automobiles.honda.com...