This is a transcript of a Radio broadcast at 8:00 PM EST, Saturday April 20, 1996:
The radio Interviewer is TEXE MARRS:
And he is interviewing former (Green Beret) COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
About the Death of Lieutenant Commander William B. Pitzer in 1966.
TEXE MARRS:
My guest is Colonel Daniel Marvin. He was with the United States
Army Special Forces. A lot of folks just call them "the Green
Berets." He is now retired and living in Ithaca, New York.
We're going to be talking on the subject: "I Was Asked to Kill
For the C.I.A."
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Good afternoon to you, sir. It's a pleasure to be on-board with you.
TEXE MARRS:
Well, let's go back to your military career in the U.S. Army Green
Berets. How did you manage to join the Green Berets, and what
does that mean to you?
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
I had read a lot about the Green Berets, and I was stationed on the
same post with them when I was in the 82nd Airborne Division as a
young sergeant. And we always thought of them as "the beady-eyed
killers." That's what we called them in those days.
But then I read about President Kennedy and how he had really come
to have a great amount of respect for the Green Berets. He
personally authorized the wearing of the Green Beret. He spoke of
them as the answer to a lot of problems in a lot of small countries
where, to him, the Green Berets were and should be, and should
always be, not only a very tough military force, but also a Peace
Corps with an M-16 rifle.
And when President Kennedy was assassinated on the 22nd day of
November 1963, I was down in Yuma Pines in Arizona, testing
parachutes. The news came over the radio in my car while I was on my
way home to lunch with my wife Kate. And, that afternoon, I told
Kate, "I've got to join the Green Berets because they were important
to him." That was the day that I volunteered -- in the end of
November. And, by the end of December, I was at Fort Bragg, North
Carolina on Smoke Bomb Hill, which is the training ground for the
U.S. Army Green Berets. I started training in January.
TEXE MARRS:
Well, evidently, from what you told me and from the material you
sent me, you then went on to volunteer for "assassination and
terrorist training" while at this guerilla warfare school. What
about that?
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Well, the guerilla warfare school ... If you saw the movie or read
the book, THE GREEN BERETS, the training within the guerilla warfare
school is to prepare you to do all of that. I learned special
demolitions, booby traps, all these different things that are used
in different areas of the World for unconventional warfare. But at a
certain point in time during an officer's training, they would ask
for volunteers for assassination training.
There were six of us who volunteered. I always liked danger, from
the time when I was a young boy growing up on the South Side of
Chicago, where, if you've got to face it anyway, you might as well
enjoy it. That's probably the way that I figured it. So I raised my
hand and I took assassination training by C.I.A. personnel at Fort
Bragg, North Carolina in the spring of 1964, just months after
President Kennedy was assassinated. And, as unusual as it was, it
was even more significant when we learned -- at least by listening
to our instructors -- that the C.I.A. itself may have been involved
in the assassination of President Kennedy. And, in fact, they used
the assassination of President Kennedy as a prime example of how to
develop the strategy for the assassination of a World leader as a
conspiracy, while making it look like some "lone nut" did it.
We saw 16 millimeter moving pictures that we assumed were taken by
the C.I.A. of the assassination, on the ground there at Dallas. It
may have been the Zapruder Film. I do not know. We also saw some
still photographs.
[JD: This could not be the Zapruder Film because that is an
8 millimeter film. This 16 millimeter film must be a secret
film taken by the C.I.A.]
We were told that there were actually four shooters. There was one
on the roof of the lower part of the [Texas School] Book Depository,
and there was one shooter who was in front of and to the right of
the [President's] vehicle. And I'm not sure whether it was [a
shooter] on the "grassy knoll" area that they were speaking of or,
as some people have reported, [a shooter firing] out of a manhole to
the right-front of the vehicle.
And there were two other shooters who were stationed with spotters
on the two routes that they would take to go to the hospital. And
the spotter was to determine -- using high-powered binoculars --
whether or not the President would survive ... you know, go to the
hospital and survive it ... or if he was a goner. And, if the
spotter determined that he would survive, then one of those two
shooters -- depending upon which of the two routes that the Secret
Service took -- would finish him off right there.
TEXE MARRS:
So, in other words, they were actually teaching ... they were going
under the operational premise that it was, indeed, a conspiracy, and
let's say, institutional terrorism of government assassination.
It was like a pattern to use [for instruction].
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
That is correct! And, during one of the coffee breaks, I overheard
one of the [C.I.A.] instructors say to the other one,
"Well, it went pretty well in Dallas. Didn't it?"
And, from then on, I just assumed -- as much as I admired President
Kennedy -- that he must have been doing something that was not good
for this government, because there I was, taking this kind of
training, and being trained specifically to kill Americans overseas.
The Mafia lists were the ones being used [to kill Americans]
in the continental United States. We were being used overseas.
So, I just determined from that that President Kennedy had just done
something that wasn't good for this nation. And that's why they did
it to him.
TEXE MARRS:
Colonel Marvin, let's look at that mindset that you had. I think
that's really important. You know, we've seen what happened up at
Ruby Ridge in Idaho, where this [F.B.I.] sniper, Lon Horiuchi ...
You know, somebody mentioned that this guy is an Evangelical
Christian, and he home-schools his child. But he didn't have any
compunction about blowing the head off of this mother holding her
baby in her arms: Randy Weaver's wife, Vickie. We've seen these
things. The same thing at the Branch Davidian complex.
I'm sure that some of these men had that kind of a mindset. And, by
the way, I want to rush to say that I probably had the same kind of
mindset as an Air Force officer. You know, you're patriotic. You're
trained to do things.
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Texe, you hit the right word there: "patriotic". The stronger a
patriot you are, the more important it is to you that you do
whatever is necessary for your flag, for your country. It makes you
the most susceptible type of person for this kind of training.
You are the ultimate warrior. You're out there to do for your
country what nobody else is willing to do. I had no qualms about it
at all.
In fact, I was asked, approximately a year-and-a-half later, to kill
an American Naval officer, as he was, supposedly, a traitor, about
to give secrets to the enemy. It turned out that these "secrets"
were the photos of the real autopsy of President John F. Kennedy.
And "the enemy" was us!
Anyway, at that particular time and place -- the first week in
August of 1965 -- when that C.I.A. agent asked me to kill Lieutenant
Commander William Bruce Pitzer, I agreed to do it, at first. Those
were all voluntary assignments, by the way. And then he told me that
it was to be done here in the United States. Well, that wasn't my
mission. When I took my training, I volunteered to do this kind of
thing overseas where it could be covered, as far as the family goes.
I had a wife and three children. If I were to accept that mission to
kill Commander Pitzer right here in the United States, I would have
been dropped from the rolls immediately as a deserter so that it
would cover me for taking off and taking care of that mission. If I
made it safely back, then I would turn myself in and come back up
through the system. That's the way it works.
I refused that mission because, like I told the C.I.A. agent,
"That's what you're supposed to be asking the Mafia to do."
Well, at that point in time, the C.I.A. was not on good terms with
those people in the Mafia who provided the "hit" personnel.
So another man, who went through the same kind of training that I
did, whose name is David H. Vanik, was approached by that same
C.I.A. agent on that same afternoon underneath the pine trees at
Fort Bragg, North Carolina. He was a single officer. He was a Green
Beret. I don't know, very honestly, Texe, if the C.I.A. even asked
him to do that -- to kill Lieutenant Commander Pitzer. All I know is
that I never saw Vanech after that day.
And Commander Pitzer was killed in October of 1966, in his office at
Bethesda Naval Hospital. His wife, whom I talked to, assured me that
he did, in fact, have the actual autopsy photographs of President
Kennedy. And he was scared. He didn't know what to do with them.
And that's what happened to him.
TEXE MARRS:
Let's go over that, a point at a time, here.
You're there at Fort Bragg, North Carolina -- right? -- in
Fayetteville, North Carolina.
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Yes.
TEXE MARRS:
You're a Green Beret, in the Special Forces. You had volunteered for
"assassination and terrorist" training.
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Right.
TEXE MARRS:
And then one day, a C.I.A. agent .... How did they contact you?
Did they go through the headquarters of the Green Berets and set up
an appointment, or what?
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
It was through my commanding officer, Colonel C.W. Patton.
The C.I.A. had agents there all the time at Fort Bragg, in the
Special Warfare Center Headquarters. They took over a certain office
area where there was only C.I.A. The building they used was
surrounded by a double barbed wire fence, and there were a couple of
guard dogs in there. It was not unusual for "Company" [C.I.A.]
people to be at Smoke Bomb Hill, which was the Special Forces, the
Green Berets' area.
Colonel C.W. Patton -- who lives down in Florida, and whom I've
spoken to within the last year -- called me up to his office one day
in the first week of August of 1965. It was his last week as
commander of Special Forces Group there (he went to the Pentagon
from there). And he said,
"Dan, go out and meet the `Company' man standing there underneath
the pine trees, waiting to talk to you."
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
I went out there. The "Company" [C.I.A.] agent showed me his I.D.
I saw it and I promptly forgot it, because that's what you're
supposed to do. And so, I don't know what his name was. And then he
asked me if I would volunteer to terminate a man who was about to
"give some secrets to the enemy." And I told him "yes" because I
thought that it was to be done overseas. I was already on orders.
The orders were dated in June or July of that same year. So I said,
"They know that I'm headed to Viet Nam." Once I get to Viet Nam,
it's easy. Just put me on an airplane and send me to the Philippines
or Okinawa or wherever this guy is -- this guy named Pitzer -- and I
would take care of him, and then go back to Viet Nam and pretend
like it never happened.
And you have to do that because, in cold-blooded murder, there is no
statute of limitations. So, if you ever do anything like that, you
never, ever tell anybody -- period -- at least never in writing,
anyway. Everything is handled verbally.
TEXE MARRS:
Now, I think it is generally known that the C.I.A. calls itself,
simply, "the Company." So that's what you're referring to -- the
euphemism for the Central Intelligence Agency.
I have a question, Colonel Marvin. Why are they going to the Green
Berets here? Do they not have their own shooters? Why don't they use
their internal people?
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Well, I think the Green Beret is probably the most highly trained
person to operate outside of a normal environment, and to work with
indigenous personnel. Like when I was asked to kill somebody who was
in Cambodia, I was to use Vietnamese resources in Viet Nam, just
across the border from Cambodia. We know how to train people. We
know how to use all kinds of weapons and all kinds of tactics.
And we were there in greater numbers, and it would be easier to mask
what they were doing than it would be for one of their own agents
who is in a country on a passport and is known to be operating on
some phony operation, maybe in an embassy or as some member of the
State Department. But they're all kind of present-and-accounted-for,
whereas we were not. They could come in with one of their Air
America choppers, and pick us up and take us some place to do a job.
And we would do what it took to do it, and we would stay there.
TEXE MARRS:
I see too, that if you had committed an assassination and you were
apprehended, then they could simply say that you're an Army
deserter, that you had family problems, financial problems, drinking
problems. Your Army commander could say that you're [AWOL] absent
without leave, a deserter, whatever; and, you know, just a general
troublemaker. Whereas, if you are C.I.A., that onus immediately
flashes on the screen. Doesn't it? A red flag: "C. I. A."
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
That is correct. We concerned ourselves as much with telling the
C.I.A. how we were going to accomplish the mission. We were more
worried about how THEY would take care of us, in order to eliminate
any witnesses after we had accomplished our mission. So, we never,
ever .... I know *I* never, ever .... told them exactly how I was
going to do it or when I was going to do it, or with whom I was
going to do it, or how I was going to get back, because I didn't
want them waiting along the trail for me.
TEXE MARRS:
Now, this "Company" man, this C.I.A. agent ... did he tell you,
right up front, that you were to kill a man by the name of Navy
Lieutenant Commander William Bruce Pitzer?
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Well, once I accepted the mission, I asked him who it was, and he
told me. But then, what he forgot to tell me in advance was that it
was to be done at Bethesda Naval Hospital. And, once he said that, I
said,
"No, I cannot do it, because I don't do that in the States.
Overseas -- fine, but not here. Not in the United States."
So, then he turned and walked on over to Captain Vanik. And I don't
know what happened then.
All I know is that, in 1993, in the week of the [thirtieth]
anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, I was
watching a [television] documentary (see, I never tied in Commander
William Bruce Pitzer with [the assassination of] President Kennedy)
and they were reading off a laundry list of forty-two people who had
died violent deaths, who were somehow involved, one way or another,
with the autopsy or as witnesses, or having something to do with the
Kennedy assassination.
Then, all of a sudden, I see "William Bruce Pitzer".
Well, I almost got sick, right there in my own living room, Texe,
just seeing that. So I immediately set about to finding out HOW he
was killed, and WHERE he was killed. And I asked a friend of mine, a
professor at William Smith College who was on his way, in a few
months, to a big convention of assassination researchers --
"assassination buffs", as they [the government/massmedia
propagandists] call them.
TEXE MARRS:
My guest is Colonel Daniel Marvin. For folks who are just tuning
in, you were a member of the U.S. Army Special Forces, known as "The
Green Berets". You are now retired and living in Ithaca, New York.
We're discussing the John F. Kennedy Assassination from the aspect
of the fact that, as a Green Beret officer, you were asked to
assassinate a U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander William Bruce Pitzer.
You were saying that you had turned down the assignment, but you
were shocked to find out, some years later, exactly who William
Pitzer was. Keep going along that line. That is so important.
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Okay, Texe. I will. But before I get into that, I've got to say
something about your latest book, CIRCLE OF INTRIGUE, and what
you've done in the past. I've been involved in a number of very
tough crusades. I wouldn't be alive today if it were not for our
Lord, Jesus Christ watching over me. And, in a number of crusades,
I've run up against the same enemy [as you describe in your book] ,
here in the United States, as I tried to help people whom the C.I.A.
did NOT want helped. And, in one particular case, it [my opposition]
included President Ford, President Bush, President Carter, Secretary
of State Henry Kissinger. And all of these men were architects of
subterfuge [working for the New World Order's inner circle]. And it
is so good -- so healthy for this nation -- to just understand and
to realize and to ADMIT that there are people [in ruling positions]
in the United States who ARE just as you depict them in the book,
CIRCLE OF INTRIGUE. I'm glad to be on the phone with you.
I'll get back to Lieutenant Commander Pitzer. I was watching this
television program about the John F. Kennedy Assassination, and
this laundry list of names came at the end, of the forty-two people
who were involved somehow who met violent deaths. And William Bruce
Pitzer's name came on among them. And I nearly, literally, got sick
in my living room. I almost threw up, because I realized that that
was the man whom they told me, in 1965, was a traitor.
So, I started investigating what happened, and I found out that he
was killed in his office at Bethesda Naval Hospital on the 29th day
of October, 1966. I was in Viet Nam at that time. And the
circumstances were officially explained as "a suicide." But there
are a lot of strange things about it, which I'm working on now,
documenting and attempting to get the Congress to do an
investigation on the death of William Bruce Pitzer. This is a very
difficult proposition, trying to move Congress.
The first thing I did, after finding out where he was killed, was to
find his widow whom I located through a friend of mine, Robert
Palmer. He found out where she lived, and I called her on the phone.
I think it was the most difficult telephone conversation I ever had
to make, Texe. This is the widow of the man whom I was asked to kill
-- Joyce B. Pitzer. She's eighty-some-odd years old now. And I
recorded both conversations, without her knowledge at the time, but
then I sent her copies of them.
Basically, I told her that I had been asked by the C.I.A. to kill
her husband, and the reason why I had refused it -- the ONLY reason
why I had refused it -- and that I might know just who did it.
But the most important thing is that I know in my heart that it WAS
the Central Intelligence Agency who ordered her husband murdered.
Her husband was a Navy hero, a man with a top secret clearance.
Texe, you were a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force. You know that
you don't get a top secret clearance unless you're straight arrow.
I mean, straight, straight arrow. And Commander Bruce Pitzer had
top secret clearance listed on his officer qualification record --
his last one, which I have a copy of, in my possession, that I
obtained after he had so-called "committed suicide."
And she told me that she knew it was not suicide. Their whole family
knew it was not suicide. But Navy intelligence officers had met her
in her house within twenty-four hours of her husband's so-called
"suicide", and they ordered her not to speak about her husband's
death to anybody -- not even to her family members.
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Mrs. Joyce Pitzer tried to get her husband's autopsy [report]. And
it took TWENTY-FIVE YEARS, Texe, before OUR government would allow
her to see her own husband's autopsy. And I honestly do not believe
that she saw her husband's actual autopsy. I think she saw what they
arranged for her to see.
Oh, it's such a SAD STATE-OF-AFFAIRS TO KNOW THAT THIS STUFF IS
GOING ON!
This is just an aside to this story, but it works right into this.
In 1990, a New York State Trooper came to my office. We know a lot
of people in the State Police. My niece is a State Trooper. Her
husband is a State Trooper. A good friend of mine is. But this other
State Trooper, whom I've known for twenty years, came to my office
and said,
"Dan, be careful, because you're starting to get in kind of hot
and heavy with the F.B.I. who are involved in a cover-up of the
[Kennedy] Assassination."
He said,
"I want you to know that when President Bush came into office, he
authorized the F.B.I. to reactivate one of their hit teams
[teams of assassins]."
They had had two hit teams like us [like the Green Beret hit teams]
before the [Senator Frank] Church Committee had forced them to rid
themselves of their hit teams. They had their own hit teams then.
And they still have them today. That's why the American People have
GOT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. They've got to know what's going on in
your CIRCLE OF INTRIGUE book. They've got to know what's going on
regarding what I've been talking about. They've got to know what's
going on regarding what Nigel Turner has put into a number of
documentaries that were just aired this past Sunday again --
yesterday. They've got to realize and come to know that this stuff
does exist. I look to the People of these United States to get up in
arms, with their pens, not their weapons, and fight this thing
through their government representatives.
TEXE MARRS:
Now, let's talk about how Commander Pitzer was assassinated. Now,
what exactly was his position. How, exactly, did he have access to
the records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination?
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Boy, that's a GOOD question. I should have mentioned that to begin
with. Commander Pitzer was in charge of all of the audio and visual
components of the U.S. Navy Medical Center and the school at
Bethesda Naval operations. He was responsible for the photographic
coverage of the autopsy of John F. Kennedy. He was responsible,
also, for taking pictures of everybody who was available, who was
there in the autopsy room.
These pictures were destroyed -- the pictures of the people in the
autopsy room. The other pictures -- the actual film of the autopsy
and the slides of the autopsy .... I have spoken with Dennis David
who was Pitzer's best friend in 1963 when this happened. And he
actually saw those photos of the John F. Kennedy autopsy. He
reviewed them with Commander Pitzer. And they were both just scared
to death of what to do with those photos.
And Commander Pitzer hid them some place. And the day that he was
killed, he was found underneath a ladder with the pistol that he
supposedly killed himself with. And I think that he had gone to
extract those films from the heating vent or something over in the
other studio. And a man, trained like myself, waited for that
particular moment, and found the evidence and took care of Commander
Pitzer. That's what I think happened.
TEXE MARRS:
I remember reading that, evidently, even the brain of John F.
Kennedy is now missing.
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
It disappeared. Right.
TEXE MARRS:
The fleshly content [of his skull] would have been preserved in some
way, whether through chemicals or freezing. I don't know which
method they would use. Now they're just missing. Somebody has got
the brains of John F. Kennedy.
COLONEL DANIEL MARVIN:
Either that or it has been flushed down a toilet somewhere.
It turns out that there was so much mass of a brain that was taken
from a body that was NOT John F. Kennedy's that the very weight of
them would discredit the conspiracy theory, because most of the
[real] brain was blown out the back of his head.
TEXE MARRS:
I remember reading, too, that now, after all of these years, the
chief doctor down in Dallas, at Parkland Hospital came out several
years ago and admitted that he had not told the truth -- that he
had told an official version. Now, after all these years, he has
stood up and stated that what he had said was not true. He mentioned
being given orders by what appeared to be C.I.A. agents and others,
and he was told exactly what to do and when to do it. And, under
threat against his life, he kept the truth secret up until his older
age, and then he revealed that.
And we see now that, after all these years that they have had in which
to tamper with those records [before revealing them to the People],
they STILL will not allow us access to those records until the Year
2050, or thereabouts
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